Planning a caesarean? What are the benefits?

[Uwila]

Hello,
I have already decided that I want a casarean this time round (just have to convince the consultant which shouldn't be too difficult since I had an emergency c last time).

I see lots of stuff in the media about how caesareans are bad for mother and baby and what a bad thing it is that we perform so many in this country. But, I personally think they are a good thing. And I think recovery is much easier than is usually described in places like the all natural NCT classes.

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone else who is pregnant now is wanting a caesarean and why? I assume I'm not alone in thinking there are actually benefits to a caesarean (like I won't break my pelvis!).

Rebecca welcome to mumsnet!

I just wanted to respond to a couple of points in your post.

My history - I had a difficult forceps/ventouse birth with my first and was advised to have a c-section for my second, which I did.

While my consultant said during the second pregnancy my pelvic floor had been damaged by the weight, the tear I had as a result of the first birth 'could' leave me anally incontinent if I tried for a vaginal birth. This would be irrepairable (lovely!). So strictly there is a difference in type of birth and continence issues.

Also, while a woman does need a lot of physical help following a c-section, I recovered well physically from the second birth (and very well from the first) but I still feel traumatised from my first birth (as do a number of my friends). Recovering from a birth is not simply down to physical issues.

I don't think that many people really do think they are the 'easy' option. I think this view has come about because of the misogynistic press. The media love to sneer at Victoria Beckham et al for their caesareans (and like to portray childbearing women as gullible souls who will follow suit). For all anyone knows she may have had a physical reason for having one and ultimately it's none of our business anyway! And I don't know anyone who has had a c-section because Posh has!

Hi Gem

I'm glad you responded - thought I had added my first comment to a redundant board!

There are so many issues that come up when I read your posting. Re: The incontinence, I think individually we are all different but I was actually referring to pelvic floor muscle and the more common urinary incontinence which is roughly the same whatever mode of delivery. And although a tear through to the anal sphincter will only happen in a vaginal birth when you look overall at maternal morbidity vaginal birth is by far the safest option. Nobody wants to be anally incontinent though so I can totally understand why you avoided that! (I have to ask why you were allowed to tear when you were having the forceps - did they not perform an episiotomy?)

Also, you are 100% right about emotional recovery from birth. Most women (IME) need to have a good debrief to a trained and impartial woman after this kind of birth. Unfortunately this rarely is able to happen. I have to say that in my experience of giving birth and listening to many many many others debriefs of births the problems are to do with loss of control during labour/feeling nobody was listening to you. I hope you have the opportunity to talk to someone about it. I am also speaking from personal exp. here - it took many years to exorcise my demons!

I was responding to the initial posting criticising the NCT for (I think) realistically portraying the average recovery times. To be told "I think the recovery is much easier than usually described" etc takes it away from the (many) women who really struggle after caesareans.

The whole posh thing & too posh to push thing is totally media created and I don't think it is true at all, but I do think the general undermining of womens ability to birth & portrayal of agonising births on TV create a climate of fear for women around birth - which doesn't help at all.

Could go on and on!! But won't

Becky
BTW someone mentioned driving quickly following a Caesarean, I would just like to point out that pretty much all car insurance companies will not cover you for 4 wks following Vaginal birth and 6 weeks following Caesarean - so check it out before you get in the car!

sorry that ive crashed on this thread...ive had my first c-section as baba was in the wrong position after going thru 17 hrs labour!!!!, and that was 16 weeks ago. ive still got a bit of pain that i can feel on both hips and by my tubes, i had a wound infection after baba was born and took antibiotics and before xmas still had a bit of infection which further antibiotics but the pain still not gone away. is this normal?

i am hoping to have a natural 2nd birth.

Um, my at my friend's North London NCT antenatal class she was asked to role play a caesarian, in which she lay down while the teacher (playing the (male!) obstetrician) talked about golfing holidays over her and acted very callously. My friend (who didn't have section) thought this was hilarious but also not very good practise.
And that was NOTHING like my experience.
Where do you get the info about driving? I have read my policy and there is nothing about childbirth at all.

i was told by my midwife, docs and hossy that if you had c-section you cannot drive for 6 weeks - which is sensible

Rebecca,
First of all, welcome to mumsnet.

Secondly, while you are most cetainly entitled to your views, I think that this thread is not the place to post them.

This thread was started (by me) addressing women who are pregnant now, have already decided they want a caesarean, and asking them to share what they felt were the associated positives.

I appreciate your views differ. But, the reason I started this thread was because I wanted positive responses regarding caesareans. I did this because the negatives of caesarean are readily available in numerous places.

I was told by my midwife that my insurance would probably not cover me (when she discovered I was driving at 2 weeks after c-section). I called my insurance company, and they told me that they had never heard of any such clause and that it certainly wasn't in my policy.

I drove when I felt ready! It was as easy as sitting at home! I think I know my own body best, tbh.
The idea that childbirth is only painful because we think it will be because of 'the media' seems utterly ludicrous to me. As another mumsnetter pointed out recently, the Bible says (of Eve) 'In pain and suffering shall she bring forth children' - I don't think Eve watched many episodes of EastEnders!
Christina Odone was writing in the Mail today that she found the pain of childbirth shocking and traumatising because she hadn't heard enough about how painful it would be and was unprepared for it - you can't have it both ways. My friend, describing her second labour said the only thing she could think of to compare it to was 'being quartered at Tyburn'.

Rebecca - thanks for your response. I'd been thinking about my response all day but then just blurted it out, then worried that it came out as aggressive (particularly to a first-timer on here) so I'm glad you read it postively.

Uwila - sorry to go off on a tangent. You asked for positives. DD's brithday was one of the best days of my life. I can remember so much about it, how she looked, what she did, how I felt when I saw her - oh it was wonderful. DS's on the other hand was a mixture of shell shock and expletives in my head and gazing.

Hi there. I had to have an emergency CS with DS who got stuck. I was up and walking to the loo and having a shower less than 24 hrs later. Never suffered any pain whatsoever from the stitches, incl when they were removed. The aftercare in the hospital was crap, I have to say, but the op itself was a blessed relief and the surgical team were lovelyand genuinely delighted when DS appeared fit and well. I'm pregnant again and I might well ask for an elective cs this time around. Driving wasn't an issue for meI never got around to learning!

I think the issue with driving is that your abdominal muscles have been cut through, and many people don't realise that they need these abdominal muscles to effectiviely slam on the breaks -- should the need arise. So, I do think it's worthwhile doing a tes slamming of the breaks beofre you go anywhere in the car..... ESPECIALLY if you've got bub in the back.

Decaf, when are you due? I'm due 19 May and at present I would like a caesarean. I saw the consultant at the booking appointment and gave her the opportunity to talk me out of it, but she didn't say anything compelling enough to convince me of a "natural" delivery.

oops... that 29 May.

Uwila, that's exactly what I was told about driving afterwards by my insurance co when I rang them. HV had said 6 weeks or you won't be covered but they told me they had no policy on it, basically you will know when you're safe to drive. Have to say that I didn't feel up to it until about 4 weeks though.

I'm due on 16 Sept, Uwila, but as it's early days I haven't yet spoken to anyone at the hospital.

Oh right, I'm ahead of you then. I'm due end of May. I asked to see a consultant at my booking appointment (16 weeks). She thought the conversation was rather premature. But, the usual routine is to talk about it at about 36 weeks. I think that's rather late to start gathering information on how I want to deliver. At the point, I think the decision should be made. Interestingly she wrote up on my notes a pragrph about me being undecided and that I was happy to wait until 36 weeks. Now, I did say I was happy to come back at 36 weeks and make a final decision there. But I also said I on the day I talked to her that I had a clear preference for cesarean and if I still felt that way at 36 weeks, could I have on? Seems my view wasn't exactly what was writtten down. So, I think I'll add my own notes...

Hi all,

Seem to have started a heated debate! You are right, you did ask for benefits - I just didn't realise that you didn't mind if they were true or made up benefits.

I certainly don't think that pain of labour is not true!!!! I have had three children so how could I?? I don't want to go into my history but I have never had a 'straightforward' birth without drugs so I am not one of those that thinks babies pop out like shelling peas. (not for everyone anyway) - but I do think the media spin doesn't help anybody..how many women who have had a caesarean have been stung by the constant "too posh to push" coverage?!

I also believe that Caesareans have saved the lives of many many mothers and babies - and are not an evil at all. I just worry that there are so many 'myths' around about all things that people are not able to make properly informed decisions. I also firmly believe that if you have the pros and cons of whatever and then make that decision then you have been empowered, whether that is to have a water birth in the Atlantic with dolphins, or a planned caesarean. I just don't want women to feel afterwards that they didn't have the whole story.

BTW I know many people who have had very positive Caesareans, when I do it in class I hand out Caesarean birth plans (as mentioned before) so people can think about all the things they still have a choice about which they might not realise.

I have to be positive about Caesareans because 20% or so of my classes have them & I want them to talk to me like everyone else!! I haven't heard of teachers pretending the consultant was talking about golf before (which I personally don't think is appropriate). Unfortunately people do tend to slag off the NCT when they have a bad experience but the 1000s and 1000s of parents who have a brilliant experience don't shout as loud!

Hope that stops some of your concerns about me

Becky

Uwila, they don't actually cut your abdominal muscles. The only muscles that are cut are the womb (which is made of muscle so it can contract). Your abdominals are in two parts - left and right - and these separate naturally in pregnancy anyway to let you grow! The surgeon goes in between the muscles to get to the womb.
Rebecca, I don't see anywhere here that there are any 'made up' advantages. I think accusing everyone on this thread of not knowing anything is just a touch inflammatory. I assure you I know my stuff. Even my consultant said, 'the modern elective caesarian is a very, very safe operation. Yes you could say some risks are doubled, but double nothing is still nothing." Could you give me a single example of a 'made up advantage" in this thread? However, I agree that having a caesarian birth plan is a good idea and I'm glad to hear that you encourage your group to think about one as it can IMO make a lot of difference and it tends to get overlooked in most hospitals.

I have had 3 sections 1st, elective due to breech baby, 2nd was emergency due to distressed baby and 3rd was elective.

Being able to plan your childcare is brilliant, as is being able to get dp to book time off work, stock up frezzer etc etc.

I found the recovery from the first section the hardest but then it got easier with each one.

I hate hate hate having to stay in hospital for so long though and so that is a big con for me.

Other than that i love sections, think they are fab and would have another one in an instant.

I agree that staying in hospital is the worst thing. And it's worse IMO if you have a chid at home you want to get back to. Really hope to have no more than two nights in this time. Think I stayed in too long last time - life really was much easier at home. Also agree re childcare. My mum has taken the whole week off work to look after my ds.

When in hospital having Ds i had to stay for a week as he was ill. I missed Dd1's first ever appearance as an angel in her first nativity and Dd2's 3rd birthday. I was so upset, although we actually moved Dd2's birthday and swore everyone to secrecy.

Hi

I think that if someone said that the benefit of having a vaginal birth is that your stomach won't burst while pregnant, unlike Caesareans, you would be justified in objecting. Which is where I was objecting to the 'suggestions' that one of the benefits of caesarean is 'not breaking my pelvis'!! Hello!!

I really am not inflammatory, but please point out where I accused everyone on this thread of not knowing anything. Actually, most people on this thread now a heck of a lot more about Caesareans than I do (the experience of having one).

If it helps then I would add that the benefits of caesarean can be (for some mothers): Them and their baby being safe if there is a serious problem, avoiding vaginal birth if they are very scared about it, you do know when your baby will be born (if it is planned), no labour pain, not having to give birth (is a benefit for some people), no risk of perineal trauma, baby has perfect shaped head (normally!), good excuse to rest with baby for a good length of time, longer in hospital (if that is your preference). For a planned caesarean another benefit is that your partner will almost definately be at the birth.

Honest, I am not anti-anything (including caesareans) but just pro informed choice for all women (a thing our medical system doesn't always allow, unfortunately) and was not trying to irritate everybody.

HTH
Becky

BTW have just read my original 'inflammatory' message and you are right - it did sound very arsey. Sorry, I didn't mean it like that - I was just really worried that someone might read the list and think that breaking your pelvis or back is a normal or regular occurance during vaginal births which would be terrifying!

becky

And, sorry not to get it all into one post, I don't think that facts and stats necessarily help people to make informed choices. Knowing that X% of people have X doesn't help you if it happens to you.

I try (in classes) to focus more on being assertive enough to get what you want (whatever that may be) and if things don't go the way you had hoped - coping with that & knowing what is happening to you and why.

Becky

To be absolutely honest with you, I think there is something very wrong with women's expectations of other women when women feel like 'failures' for having caesarians, even lifesaving ones, and where women who have them are criticised constantly and feel embarrassed to admit they have had them either by choice or out of necessity. Men never give a toss about these things! Where those expectations come from we can argue about, but I would say that the NCT, in many ways an absolutely great organisation especially in providing BFCs and networks for new mothers, does play a part - I'm not sure how big a part - in this. I think that is sad.
And yes, I do realise that broken pelvises are vanishingly rare - but I do also know someone it happened to! Eek!