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August 2014 - Baking summer babies in our ovens.

931 replies

HalfPintPickle · 29/12/2013 09:41

Doesn't seem to be a new thread yet - correct me if I'm wrong.....
Continue as you were ladies..... :)

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
WeeJo08 · 06/01/2014 13:21

Oh Pina that is so annoying for you! Angry I would be furious too. I mean, even if you didn't have to contend with pregnancy hormones that would've been infuriating but add the hormones in and it is even more upsetting Sad

ClarissaG · 06/01/2014 13:54

An article for all the first time Mums to be out there, from the Times today - YIKES!!!

I'm not depressed, I'm just a mother
Esther Walker
Published at 12:01AM, January 6 2014
Looking after a baby made her feel down, so Esther Walker told people. Why did they react as if she had a medical condition?
Just after my first child, Kitty, was born (she is now nearly 3) we had some visitors, a couple and their two children. The woman held Kitty and said: “I’m not really a baby person.” She smiled as she said it. I thought it was a very weird thing to say. And especially to smile as she said it.
After they left, my husband, Giles, said that she became ill after having children. “Oh God,” I thought. “Poor thing. Postnatal depression. What a shame.”
I bumbled along with Kitty for the next few weeks in the milky haze you get with a very new baby: we had visitors and gifts; Kitty basically slept all day and all night. My husband was on paternity leave. “This is easy,” I thought. “Tee hee.”
Gradually, though, as Kitty became more alert and demanding, as the eating-and-sleeping routine I was a slave to (as it rewarded me with time to myself) started to drive me quite bananas, I wondered how much more mad I had to go before someone would cart me off to the peace and quiet of a nuthouse.
Giles told me more about Not A Baby Person, including that her husband worked long hours, none of her friends had children and she felt totally isolated. I listened with mounting horror.
“That woman,” I said to my husband, “is not depressed.” Or rather, I wasn’t bloody surprised that she was depressed! She was in a miserable situation. Even the hardiest marine, the most focused, mentally tough SAS soldier, the smoothest and most cunning spy, would go doolally in six weeks under those conditions.
The British Army would not allow its soldiers to exist for long periods under the sort of psychological trauma and sleep-deprivation that new mothers are expected to endure, unaided, cheerfully.
Let me put it this way: if you had a friend who chose to train for a marathon, or go into the Army, or who is a barrister, or a teacher, or a social worker or a doctor and they suddenly confess to you that their lives are at times impossible and that they don’t think they can carry on, that they sometimes cry in desperation — you would not tell them that they were depressed.
You probably wouldn’t even advise them to quit. “You can do it,” you would say. “Tomorrow is another day. Hang in there.” And what you really wouldn’t say is: “There is something wrong with you, I think you need help.” Yet if you’re a new mother and you go a bit wobbly under the pressure — you’re depressed. Especially if your situation is good. You might have a healthy, sunny baby and a bit of help (not too much) and parks and family nearby. If you are so blessed, if you dare to say that having a baby is at times horrible, then you are mad, you are depressed, you are probably about to commit suicide. Everyone look! Look at the crazy woman who hates her baby!
I am one of those people who became down in the dumps about having a baby for no earthly reason other than I just found it frequently exhausting and dreadful. And I couldn’t stop talking about it. I told anyone who would listen about what it was really like. “It’s so tedious and relentless. I’m so TRAPPED! I don’t think she likes me. I can’t read anything. I can’t concentrate. I’m only really at peace when she’s asleep — and even then I often fret that she will wake up too early.”
I thought I was being brave. I thought I was just telling the truth about the hardships of new motherhood. All I wanted in return was for people to say: “You are so brave. It will get better.” From more than one person, however, I got anxious frowns, concerned looks. Two people, both childless, separately took me to one side and said: “Do you think maybe you’re a bit . . . depressed?” It suddenly dawned on me: I was no longer me reporting back from an experience, like telling someone about a bad holiday. I was a mother now and I was just supposed to say how happy I was, how beautiful it all was. How complete I felt. Anything else was verboten.
I suppressed a scream. I was deeply insulted — and angry — but I didn’t say that. I said something like: “No no, I’m fine.” Because I was fine, really. There was no loss of appetite, no suicidal thoughts. I knew Kitty was easy: she rarely cried, smiled a lot and slept fine. Motherhood was still hard. Motherhood was, at times, unbearable. The responsibility was overwhelming, crushing; the boredom was total, deep.
But from then on I chose my words more carefully. I began to observe a kind of omertà. OK, I thought. You don’t want to know the truth? I won’t tell you.
A lot of mothers observe this code of silence. First, you don’t want to frighten or bore people with no children. Second, there is always a nagging feeling that you are having a bad time because you are doing it wrong. Third, you don’t want people to think you are depressed. There’s nothing worse than pity. Sympathy and support? Yes please. Pity? No.
So you huddle with other mothers, preselected for their own honesty and you talk and it makes you feel better. And you freeze everyone else out for fear that they will point at you and call you a basket case if you confess that quite often you powerfully wish that you were off your face on a boat in the Bahamas, dancing to Rihanna. And because of this silence so many women embark on motherhood blind and they are, in turn, deeply shocked by its downsides.
But this is not depression. This is simply what happens when women are not brought up to be mothers. Once upon a time in this country — and it is still the case in most other countries — women spent a lot of their girlhood caring for younger siblings and relatives’ babies. Small children came as no surprise. On top of that life was hard work, just generally, and having babies was no different.
We, now, in the West spend our lives up until the point we have children totally selfishly. We are a rich country — we eat out and lie in and see friends and luxuriate in our hangovers. We are shielded from any real hardship, or fear, or boredom. We are educated in order to have careers and be big shots, not change nappies and sing nursery rhymes. And hurrah for that.
Babies, though, are medieval. They are from another time, which hasn’t changed and moved on with the West. Everything else has been tinkered with until is it as convenient as possible — except babies. They arrive as they would have arrived hundreds, even thousands, of years ago, ready for life in a Mayfair penthouse or in a Mongolian yurt.
And it had never occurred to you that you cannot give a baby a decongestant or that they will spit out Calpol or refuse to be comforted with patting and stroking or that they are physically unable to watch television until they are at least 18 months old, or that they go completely berserk on aeroplanes or that some days they want you to carry them around all day. All. Day.
A culture clash is inevitable. Not least because we live in tiny family units of two and three. There is often no one to help, no one just to hold the baby for a sec while you nip to the loo. There is no one to talk to except, if you are lucky, other friends who have babies or, worse, strange new people you are thrown together with who just happen to have started a family at the same time as you.
To go from a spoilt and pampered existence to this is a big ask. Especially as we are so used to buying our way out of trouble. But you cannot upgrade your baby to one that sleeps well, or who doesn’t whine, or projectile vomit, or one who will sit calmly in its bouncer while you fold laundry or not be constantly ill from September through to April.
None of us is prepared for this kind of uncivilised intrusion on our beautiful, handmade lives. Not even if you are wildly maternal. My best friend Rosie is just that: she loves all children and babies — when she was little she cradled dollies and made a beeline for any infant (I did not do this). Her much longed-for son is now 2.
She says: “After Ben was born for weeks he screamed from 6.30pm to midnight then passed out. It was unbearable and I would cry and say: ‘What do you want? What’s wrong with you?’ Eventually I worked out that he wasn’t sleeping enough during the day and needed to be swaddled. But to this day, every evening I get a sinking feeling that tonight is going to be the night that he won’t sleep and there’s no one to help me. I am often nervous that I will not be able to help him if he is very ill or unsettled in the night. But no one cares. It’s all your problem. I know this sounds odd but sometimes Ben really scares me.”
Dr Spock told a generation of women that they didn’t need to learn how to look after their babies, that it was instinctive and that they knew more than they thought they did. He was completely wrong. When you have no proper experience of babies, as most of us don’t, and one arrives in your house, it is like suddenly being asked to re-sit your A-level history exam. In Russian.
I suppose I have to point out here that none of this means you hate your kids. Doesn’t it go without saying? Apparently not. Disliking many aspects of having a small baby around the house doesn’t mean you hate your baby, or your husband, or family life. Babies are beautiful and charming but also dementing and unreasonable — it’s like living with a Hollywood starlet who is in the middle of a nervous breakdown.
And yet it is simply not allowed not to suffix any complaint with “. . . but they’re so cute it’s all worth it”, or “. . . but I love them so much that of course I don’t mind”. The palliative “but it’s all worth it” is a pretty pathetic offering to a woman whose children have croup and who has not read a book, had a haircut or been to the loo alone in 18 months.
The rest of the world needs mothers, badly, to say it’s all worth it, to say they love every second more than the last. The world doesn’t want to hear the truth, which is that when you’ve just had a baby and you are adrift and alone and exhausted and manic, you can wonder just what the hell “it” is that this is all supposed to be worth.
But that’s not depression! Or madness! Stop right there with that straitjacket, amigo. That’s just motherhood, in all its monstrous glory. I made my peace with it long ago, but I worry others haven’t.
Please don’t think I am asking for help with my life or asking for anything about it to change: mothers and motherhood are not problems that need to be solved. I am not a problem that needs to be solved.
All I’m asking is to be allowed to tell the truth, without being pointed at, to be allowed to talk about motherhood without having to sugar-coat it to make you feel better. Because that really is depressing.

flymo79 · 06/01/2014 14:41

eek, thanks for that Clarissa!
It's funny, but I find most of my mum friends are very honest about how rubbish and hard it is. In fact when we were TTC, there were friends my partner didn't want to go and see because they always talked about how rubbish it is when you have kids, and all the minute details of how difficult it is. They weren't saying "don't do it" but they were letting me know in no uncertain terms that it ruins certain aspects of your life. I also find the same friends are the ones who like to point out how easy everyone else has it. Perhaps they are just being honest and using the opportunity of a good friend's ear to vent, perhaps they don't have other opportunities to do so. I don't know, but I always felt that if you take the decision to have a baby (i.e. it's planned and you're in a committed relationship) you should know what's coming..... I will probably be on here saying "it's so hard!" but I sort of already know that it's going to be so hard.

flymo79 · 06/01/2014 16:39

sorry.... really didn't mean to offend, or kill the thread! Hope I didn't touch a raw nerve....

HungryHorace · 06/01/2014 16:51

It's bloody tough being a mum, especially to a new baby. But, once they're doing more and you can put them down / into the Jumperoo to play alone, it does start to get a bit easier as you get your hands back.

If DD would just sleep for 8, rather than 6, hours in one chunk it'd be perfect now!

Anyway, it's well worth it, even if the sleep deprivation means that you can't even count up to 5 for a while! :-)

BunnyBaby · 06/01/2014 17:40

Hi ladies, a bit quiet since Saturday as had a tiny smudge of pink after 'straining' on Saturday which was definitely from front. Nothing since, then another tiny red dot today amongst the white when having another BM (a bit like when you blow your nose and it's a tiny bit of red in there) Dr has referred me to EPU but is positive as such tiny amounts. They haven't been in touch so have private scan booked tonight at 7.45 and I'm 7+3 today. So keep your fingers crossed for us. I still have all pregnancy symptoms so am optimistic, but never had any blood for DS1, DS2 or my MMC. Love Bunny x

lucyfluff · 06/01/2014 17:52

LOL flymo....I read it and thought what a load of cack!!! sorry clarissa!!!

Agree hungry - I would love a full nights sleep...Im really not sure what Im going to do if my DS wakes still when this bubba comes along.....elbowing DH in the night??!!

Bunny good luck at the EPU, it sounds good you have no cramps etc. Let us know how you get on x your due same date as me!!!

HungryHorace · 06/01/2014 18:12

Good luck Bunny. FWIW, I had a tiny amount of spotting after what I'd describe as a - TMI alert - vigorous poo at about 6 weeks last time! It was a one off. My next - and last - two bleeds were due to a cervical ectropian.

I'll just be in a fog if both of them are up at night! I'd deal with dc2 and DH can deal with DD! :-)

travispickles · 06/01/2014 18:34

I totally get what she is saying. I thought my dd at 18 months was the hardest, as she walked and talked early so was EVERWHERE at speed and talked but had no sense of danger. I nearly had a breakdown on holiday in
Majorca, where she sprinted around our tiled wet apartment, got onto the balcony and started climbing onto a chair.... It was so not relaxing!

NameToBeDecided · 06/01/2014 18:48

Clarrisa thank you so much for that. I'm on dc2 but so much of that rang true. It was a bit ott in places but the sentiment is spot on. Being a new mum is very hard even with an easy baby, it doesn't mean you're weak or depressed or anything else, it just means that at times being a mum is one of the loneliest most difficult jobs going with the lowest level of training or benefits. But it is so rewarding at times like when those little arms squeeze round your neck and you get a little kiss.I'm lucky that my friends are all pretty honest so I knew what I was letting myself in for, but there were times I thought think wtf have I done? Grin

NameToBeDecided · 06/01/2014 18:49

Good luck bunny

travispickles · 06/01/2014 18:51

What's a cervical ectropian?

Abimci · 06/01/2014 18:52

Managed 8 till 5 at work after hardly any sleep last night. Tomorrow kids are back so will be a longer day but so far so good. Glad I'm feeling less sick than last week otherwise it might be a bit obvious I'm pregnant and don't want people to know until I know everything is ok. Apart from gagging when I went to the bin to throw the remainder of my cereal away this morning, I've been ok. Managing to eat more too so feel better. How did everyone else get on?

Also I'm waiting to hear from hospital about antenatal appointments. Is the booking appointment separate from 12 week scan or do they do both at same time? Being a first timer I'm clueless!

PinaColadas · 06/01/2014 19:00

Thanks weejo still moping and dwelling on it ha! Just want to talk out loud to MW about MC, never really got any after care! Roll on Friday at 9

HungryHorace · 06/01/2014 19:42

Travis, it's a sore spot which can be prone to bleeding.

My first bleed at 20 weeks the doctor could see the blood but not the ectropian. My second at 24 weeks the doctor spotted the problem and reassured me as to what it was and that I didn't have to worry if I saw blood in that way again.

Abi, it depends on your Trust. Some are together, some are separate. We weren't allowed to book antenatal classes until after 28 weeks here.

Jenbee1 · 06/01/2014 20:01

Oh, piña, that's a rubbish way to start the week. Hope it gets better x
I've got my booking appointment tomorrow, hopefully this will feel a bit more real after that Smile any good questions to ask from those that have been there before? From what I've read it sounds like the mw will ask where I want to give birth. There's a midwife unit and maternity ward at my nearest hospital and I don't know which would be better. Anyone any experience of either?pros/cons?

I've never really noticed how rude and pushy other commuters are. When is it ok to wear a baby on board badge?

HungryHorace · 06/01/2014 20:08

Ask what facilities are at each, Jen. For instance, it may be that water births are only available at the midwife unit.

Generally if you've anything which could suggest high risk you won't be allowed a midwife unit anyway.

Wear the badge whenever. From what you read on here it may not make a difference anyway. :-/

BunnyBaby · 06/01/2014 20:15

Thanks for the good wishes :-)

All ok, very healthy baby, 7 weeks exactly according to their LMP calc which was exactly the scan size too. Strong heartbeat, everything as it should be and baby attached at top of uterus. Feeling very relieved, consultant said no lifting, but I hoiked 7 lots of decorations and lights up two flights of stairs to loft tonight, so will be leaving that to DH from here onwards. Really tired and ready for bed now.

Ditto thoughts on motherhood, though I look at them and marvel at how perfect and amazing they are, which more than compensates for the hard times.

Baby on board badge, as soon as you want I would say! Especially as lots of people have heavy coats on at the mo.

Back in work tomorrow. Well done those who are managing the gagging and tiredness xxx

mssleepyhead · 06/01/2014 20:20

hello all,
i think it's going to be much harder to keep up with you all now work has begun, but i hope everyone had a good day. i felt rubbish this morning but then better as the day went on, until i got home and now i'm just crashing. i'm worried because i feel like there's also (tmi alert) a tiny smidgen of a bit of brown in my underwear today too. but i'm dismissing it because it's kind of an "in certain lights" thing, and i just don't feel like i know what else to do. it is just a tiny dot. i guess i'll keep an eye on things (she says, as if she's not manically checking everything every 20 minutes anyway). also, being at work has kind of made me distracted so tonight i'm sat feeling very anxious that i don't feel pregnant any more. my right boob hurts, but my left doesn't. and i ate all of my dinner.
in short, i'm back to being an anxious fool.
roll on february 17 and my 13 week scan... even the one i have in 2 weeks is starting to feel a bit meaningless. i want to know everything is REALLY ok...

Mrsantithetic · 06/01/2014 20:30

Marking my place so I don't lose you again Grin

HungryHorace · 06/01/2014 20:59

Excellent news, Bunny. :-)

HungryHorace · 06/01/2014 21:02

Oh, ms...sorry you're anxious. I'm sure a teeny bit of brown isn't to be worried about.

My appetite comes and goes too. I didn't struggle to eat tonight either.

And you're knackered now, so that's good!

Nulanoo · 06/01/2014 21:22

First day of a new job for me today. Hard work!!! I was sick in the car driving home and 3 times more since then I can't even keep water down!

Ruggle · 06/01/2014 21:56

I got my Baby on Board badge today.

mssleepyhead · 06/01/2014 22:22

Thank you for your reassurance, Hungry. I think on holidays I just felt safer. Now I feel a bit more... manic. And oh so out of control! Yuck. I am indeed knackered. To bed, in fact...