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March 2013 Mk V: Lumpy bumpy witty knitters (patiently) await the bloom!

978 replies

Chefette · 07/09/2012 10:09

New one marchers sorry on phone and can't link! Will post title in our old thread x

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
theTramp · 13/09/2012 13:29

JoJo - not ideal then but not too awful either. Are you OK with it all?

mandasand · 13/09/2012 13:30

It's really fascinating to hear everyone's thoughts on motherhood and the shift in one's universe that ensues -- both from the perspective of first-timers and those who are already living it!

Okay, so the following starts a bit me-me-me, but moves on to general philosophising about parenting as social construct and lived reality. But this is not a class and you may totally skip this post and I will not be offended! Grin

So, all the various unknowns aside, I do fully anticipate that my research and my book-writing will maintain, and hopefully this will be associated with an academic job post-Feb. 2015 so that I am paid for my efforts and able more easily to be part of wider supportive and collaborative academic community.

DH (ex-academic) understands the issues and is 100% supportive. He is also cognisant of the fact that both of our lives as they are at present must, albeit to different extents (a point I'll return to below), adjust to embrace and make sufficient nurturing space for the new people in our lives. In this short term this involves, for me, 9 months mat. leave, during which I will be engaged on some activities which most people would perceive as 'work', and for DH, the idea of going down to a 4-day week so he can contribute more in terms of day-to-day, hands-on parenting, plus us paying for childcare during mat. leave, both of which will enable me to do my 'work' activities in a phased return to f-t work.

But this raises a question for me which it would be really helpful to get others' perspectives on, especially those who are already mothers and who also work. I'm really interested in the extent to which your partners' or husbands' professional lives may have shifted or be about to shift to facilitate co-caring for your growing families. The social tendency (although I know of many examples otherwise) still seems to be that it is the woman's professional life that becomes the more expendable factor. It's really interesting to hear that for some this is a welcome and positive shift, a change many actively choose, but is there something inherent in parenting roles that means it is the mother, rather than the father, who more usually makes this shift, whether out of choice of necessity (e.g. the shocking gender pay-gap which means women on average earn less than men)?

In my case it's been kind of assumed, by both of us, that I will take 9 months of maternity leave, when in reality I could share half of it with him. DH appreciates the impact that will have and has volunteered to take some steps to ameliorate that (going down to a four-day week; possibly also some more working from home if his company allow). I am not sure I know what my overall question is precisely, but it's to do with the gender factor in assumed or chosen parental roles. Perhaps it's a slightly existential thing about whether motherhood (whether as social construct or lived reality) is perceived to be fundamentally different (more essential, maybe, to child development?) than fatherhood? A lot of the books I'm dipping into at the moment lament the fact that our choices are dictated by binaries (SAHM or work+childcare; mother or father takes bulk of parental leave). I would like to achieve more of a gender balance than the either/or, although I think the real issue here is my own curiosity about why I'm not pushing for more of a 50:50 split.

Sorry this is such an essay, but it's actually just really helpful to vocalise these issues which are playing around in the corners of my mind.

Dame you're mother sounds great and am loving your can-do positivity today. Go you! Smile

JoJoBella84 · 13/09/2012 13:33

Oddly yes. It has to happen and I'd rather it's under my control than an emergency op further down the line.
The consultant thinks I'll need about 4/5 weeks to recover fully but is happy for me to return to York earlier providing no lifting etc so that is good - I just need to get some degree of normal back I think!!
I'm still confused about the large uterus, is that likely to be lots of fluid??

mandasand · 13/09/2012 13:33

Xposted with you, JoJo: this is good, feels like some progress has been made. As early as next week! Still feeling okay about it? Obv. would be better to have keyhole but if it's best for the baby not to then there's no argument to be had, I guess. At least you can get out of some DIY, hehe!

ThreeForTea · 13/09/2012 13:55

*ok I wrote this earlier on my desktop cus I'm at work (they're so lucky to have me back!) but couldnt post until now. Havent caught up with all the other thoughts yet but will later:

Hermione I remember having exactly the same moment when I was first pregnant! I was worried that I wouldn?t be able to keep up at work, worried that I was doing the worst possible for my career and tbh some people around me really didn?t help. The ?full time mummies? I knew used to go on and on about how great it would be when I finished work and that I could go round and play all the time and have coffee (in some cases I couldn?t really see what else they ever did) And other women my age (uni friends in particular) who didn?t have and didn?t plan to have children for a while saw me as a complete novelty, as if I was making a controversial lifestyle choice! I was 25 when I found out I was pg with dd. I felt a bit stuck then between these two possible worlds, wanting a bit in both but felt massively like both ?sides? judged me! When I was pregnant I made some grand plans for myself post baby, went for a promotion to management which I got and set myself some ?goals? to achieve while I was on mat leave. Intended to return to work for four days a week and work from home for one day.
Unfortunatly I became really ill for around five months when dd was born, and a having a baby around was harder than I thought it would be so I didn?t ?achieve? anything! Luckily so many friends helped me out, kept me in touch, came over with dinner, helped look after dd while I was in hospital and generally just reassured me that a. They saw me as the same person and b. I was the same person, just with a scrummy baby and c. barely anything happens in my control and my best chance for a satisfactory life would be to work things out for myself as well as I can and stop worrying so much about what I ?should? or ?should not? be doing. I think the things that have made a total difference for me were not letting a baby routine control my life (used the Baby Whisperers E.A.S.Y to some extent) so that I usually did the things that I wanted to do when I wanted to do them rather than base the day around dd?s whims. The other thing was though dd was BF for a year I did manage to express and was able to get her to take a bottle so that I could leave her. This just meant that I could go out in the evening/daytime. Leaving her at quite an early age meant that it was easier later on. I think she was first away from me overnight at 7 or 8 months old. At other times I just took dd with me eg on a hen weekend to Cornwall when she was 6 weeks old. (we are talking a rather tame hen though!), and on a girls holiday to France when she was 6 months. It was great to get away with other girls and they were all so helpful and accommodating that it was almost easier than being at home. When I met people in the evenings up till she was about 6 months I would usually take her with me and put her in her carry cot in a bedroom with a monitor. Letting friends and family share dd to such an extent is I think the single most thing that helps. It definitely share not dump, and she honestly just is so loved by so many people. The last thing that I would say to anyone is to learn to travel light! There is so much ?stuff? associated with toting a baby around that can really restrict what you do and where you go. If you can manage to get out/go away with just the essentials you are so much freer, and feel more yourself somehow. And dd is a secure little thing, and we love being together.
I have just thought that how I look after my dd might seem terrible to someone else , but really is what works best for me/us and I think that the key really is feeling the freedom to make your own way, and know that deep down you probably will make the best decision for your family. I chose to take a step down at work at the end as I did not want to work full time and I was (by time dd was six months) under no illusion that I could work from home productively without help with dd! I was a bit sad to be ?moving backwards? but have come to terms a bit that long term there will still be a lot of opportunities, and it still bites some days but I know I did the right thing. I?ll be able to do even less with two babies, I know, but its almost like with the new baby I won?t be taking any attention away from dd for it, it will be carving out another section from my life for it if that makes sense? A long post from me!

JoJoBella84 · 13/09/2012 13:55

manda I've been loving the DIY but must admit I think I've been overdoing it so will be nice to have done morphine days floating on the sofa.. Hehe!
Will be nice to have a date- I still feel like I know little more than 2 weeks ago when I had this initial appointment. So I really really hope I get the call on Monday as promised!

mandasand · 13/09/2012 14:09

jojo gosh, yes, I remember that morphine is bonkers stuff, haha! enjoy :-D

theTramp · 13/09/2012 14:10

Manda - I know women who are main earners and after first 12 months their partners became primary carer. It works for them, although they do say they tend to be more 9-5 once they return to work. Weirdly they say biggest problem they have is not connecting with mothers of their kids friends who did stay at home. How much that's being ostracised and how much just an understandable lifestyle difference I'm not sure.

Most of the people having kids at the mo that I know are splitting the burden. So both are working in office fewer days a week and so splitting the nursey run etc between them. This, I think, reflects fact that both partners are on a fairly even economic keel.

I do know a few people where assumption has been their hubby will work and they will make the sacrifices. On the whole they're women who seem to except & expect that - so I presume that their relationships generally are more 'traditional' in that way.

Discussion with MrM has been how he'll need to learn to multi task a bit. When he's working on a movie - forget it, you hardly see him or he's not in the country so no go there. Between jobs, when unemployed, he still works like a work-a-holic. I'm working effectively from home, as my co's office is below our house. We'll arrange childcare & I'm going to talk to a couple of friends who are due this year but have at least 6m mat leave if they fancy a private arrangement which MrM will oversea when he's not working and I will rest of the time (shared cost of a nanny sorta thing).

I'm with you on this - it seems daft that it seems to always fall at the woman's feet & I know that would happen if I dont push for more of an even split with MrM. It's all new ground though so in reality who knows how we'll split it or cope generally. I think he'd be quite up for a more hands on role but I also think he has no idea how life will change.

ThreeForTea · 13/09/2012 14:15

Really hope it all gets settled soon jojo was the consultant nice? Also is this fairly standard procedure for a pg woman?

JoJoBella84 · 13/09/2012 14:29

three I have two consultants, one from the obstetric team and one from gynae. I've only met one who is lovely, his job is to make sure the correct decisions are made for the baby and the gynae team are making the right decisions for me.
Apparently cysts are quite common in pregnancy but they're not removed if they're small. Although - this does seem strange to me... Cysts occur in one in 1000 pregnancies. This is classed as common. Stillbirth occurs is one in 200 pregnancies (according to my Scottish NHS booklet) this is classed as rare??!
From what I gather they perform surgery daily on pg women (though I think that includes c sections) I'm not sure on the stats for cysts only!

ThreeForTea · 13/09/2012 14:44

manda we considered dh taking 3 months when I went back as we were on about equal pay then. Also considered him doing 1 day a week childcare. The trouble was when it came to it dh just really struggled during the baby stage if left alone, so it just wasn't practical. Wheras when i'm home I do housework and bits he finds it hard to do anything else alongside. I know that some men are wonderdads, but in my experience they are few and far between. I don't know if that's social conditioning or what but its our here and now!
Dh is a great dad, he has completely renovated our house in the last few years, things like building sheds, paths fences, fitting the bathroom, building a fitted wardrobe.. things I'm certainly not conditioned to do! ...but though he has got much better with dd over time there is still a massive difference between us that we have to work with.
In my house growing up all five of us were given the same chores and tasks to do and the same toys/colours by my mum who was quite determined her children would grow up without gender stereotypes. We all had dolls bought for us as well as meccano etc. However its my sister and I who are the most domesticated and maternal and my brothers poor to middling around the house, so her attempts to influence her boys didn't work that well :)

ThreeForTea · 13/09/2012 14:54

jojo gosh that sb stat is high :( I had two cysts seen at 12 week scan, but I think fairly small (but one still 4cm long) am hoping they've shrunk by next scan. Glad you have a nice consultant anyway, must be a little better than a cold or scary or inept one.

sundaesundae · 13/09/2012 14:57

1 in 115 in USA, 1 in 200 in england and wales and 1 in 167 for Scotland apparently. Much higher than I thought!

theTramp · 13/09/2012 15:26

Is that cysts or still births sundae?

Still births are much more common than anyone would like to think. Its sad, but nature is cruel at the best of times. People don't tend to talk about it or publicise it much, quite understandable. Due to family history etc I'm high risk for a still birth, but at least I know that - so I'd be better prepared than most to cope, but even then it would be beyond awful.

JoJo - it sounds like you are being well looked after my dear and as if it's a proceedure they are used to doing. I just hope recovery isn't too hard on you.

I too have a few cysts on my ovaries, but at present they don't seem to be too large and don't appear to be growing. I'm hoping the burst after the birth, which often happens I was told. I'm refusing to google all this stuff though because if I do I shall start worrying and I don't think I have the capacity to worry about much more right now.

Three - ah yes, the amazing male inability to multi-task. One job at a time and when undertaken naturally undertaken with more dedication and excellence than a female. OK I am being harsh, but its a fairly common male trait. And it's bloody annoying.

zoeymlucas · 13/09/2012 15:26

Afternoon ladies- have finally managed to catch up as kept nodding off after a night in hospital!
Yesterday wasn't quite as easy as planned - first I met my surgeon who I honestly thought was part of the russian mafia, big bruiser bloke, Russian accent, shaved head and massive scar down face- however he was lovely and very helpful just looked like an axe might be his weapon of choice, lol!
Anaesthetics were determined a spinal would work with sedation and he was an expert in hyper mobility - they got spinal in but when testing it hadn't worked at all and then I panicd so they sedated me to the point I didn't remember DH leaving or being knocked out! I was really ill coming round due to sedative still being in and they said was sick everywhere- I don't remember a thing to be fair! Blood pressure was low and cos of the pure amount of drugs I had I had to stay in over night but cos they weren't expecting me to they had no private rooms so at midnight I went to day room with a pillow and slept on a chair as I can't sleep if I can hear things but not see them esp in hospitals- I now have a neck in agony!!
DH was being all funny yesterday afternoon and I was going to kill him as thought he was moaning as was tired, so had a go and it turns out his grandad died about an hour before and he didn't want to upset me! God I felt awful I had told him off! So will have funeral soon to go too and that's means MIL will see I am pregnant which will open a can of worms with the crazy old cow-!
So not a great day but home now in bed watching DVDs, mum sent me homemade Irish stew that I had for lunch and was amazing:)

And, baby bean is perfectly happy and totally unaware of everything that happened which is the main thing andeverythinglooks perfect and bleeding has near enough stopped too which is great Grin have got a cough from GA which does um pull something in there when I cough which is a little sore, so coughing and holding my bits, lol! Plus got got tablets I don't swallow twice a day Blush

Glad people's scans went well and everyone has perfect heathy little babies Grin

theTramp · 13/09/2012 15:28

Zoey - so pleased it is over but blimey that sounds like drama and your poor OH. Enjoy more tlc and stew and wear your best baggy black dress to the funeral...

ThreeForTea · 13/09/2012 16:05

Bless you zoey that's a lot to happen in a short space of time. Glad baby bean is fine and you on the mend. Really take care the next few days.

So true Tramp*, dh idea of multi tasking is 'watching' a sleeping baby and playing Call of Duty at the same time!

Lexiindisguise · 13/09/2012 16:24

zoey relieved to hear all went well, sorry about the bereavement.
JoJo fx you get your operation sorted soon and all goes smoothly.

manda in terms of gender, I think DH is more than willing to help with childcare and wants to be an involved parent. However with him starting his own business in March I have to accept that he needs to put time into the business at this point Sad. We've discussed me working 4 days a week, and him working his usual hours but flexing so he could do 1 day childcare - meaning LO would be in nursery for 3 days a week, but he would be working even more evenings and weekends to make up the time. I heard a lovely story from his Nan this weekend; her husband used to push DH's dad around in a pram when he was a baby, apparently the neighbours were all really shocked and used to say things like 'But what will he do if the baby wakes up?!'. So I think attitudes have changed, though progress is frustratingly slow Wink

Our CEO just came up to me and said 'Congratulations'! I said 'Thank-you' - he followed it up with 'Of course I'm furious....'.
Definitely meant as a joke (and very typical of him!) but I must admit it left me a bit uncomfortable....

dameflamingo · 13/09/2012 16:31

Welcome back Zoey!

At the risk of getting onto a feminist diatribe I think the whole going back to work and sharing the childcare issue is a murky one and therefore 'whatever works for you' is the way forward. I'm always delighted to hear how hard people work to make it work for them.

Let's face it the odds are stacked to make the woman the main child care provider from the outset. Case in point maternity leave packages vs paternity leave of two weeks. When I rule the country....

Anyway I said I wan't going to start a rant.

I'll be a first timer so my plan is tinged with teh niavity and hope that comes with this position. I'm hoping to BF so that will obviously have an impact on who stays at home for the first year - so far DH has managed to master all sorts of amazing feats and yet this one eludes him!.
I'm hoping that I can return to work flexibly and with some WFH to facilitate this - they are a fab organisation and I see no reason why they wont continue to be utterly supportive -after all I am a pretty good employee and the benefits to the company of this are high!

DH and I talked about how we'd work together to 'split' childcare we're in the pretty equal in terms of position, income etc bracket which gives us more freedom to do this. My employer is more flexible but we're both in professions that could easily be translated to freelance should we choose therefore we're going to take stock and reassess after the baby arrives. I will however take months out for to BF which gives us both a bit of space to think!!

dameflamingo · 13/09/2012 16:34

Oh God I cannot type and I need a new keyboard - ignore dreadful typos above.

OodHousekeeping · 13/09/2012 16:55

zoey sorry to hear your sad news although great that the hospital bit is over& done with.

manda dh changed jobs when dd3 (his first) was born. He was in an important job and changed to a p/t min wage job as we weren't prepared to take the stress any longer. We now both work part time although his ours fluctuate and are often nearer full time (but there's no stress, mine has the stress!)

mandasand · 13/09/2012 17:42

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and experience re childcare and gneder issues - a murky topic indeed, as Dame wisely says! And I am taking heed that, as in Three's experience, something like illness can send the best laid plans awry. Really helpful, though, as I think through our situation - ta!

I like your idea for sharing a nanny with friends, Tramp and love your story from DH's Nan, Lexi! (Hmm to your CEO, though! Mind you, I did say to my boss 'I understand if you need to take 5 mins out to go and swear a bit in the corner?', acknowledging that having his only colleague bugger off for a few months on a short-term project isn't ideal! I guess the positive spin is that it means he values you a member of staff!)

DH and I are roughly equal in terms of main salary, but on top of that I do part-time tutoring for the OU, PhD supervision for another university and occasional freelance consultancies. (We contribute to the mortgage equally and then proportionately based on income to the joint account to cover our communal outgoings based on what's come in each month; we also have joint savings and separate savings. This is, I think, still quite a pre-marriage arrangement so we may have to re-think money more in terms of being a family unit when babies come along!)

As for multi-tasking and housework, well my DH has been in a serious training programme since we started living together (not that he knows anything of this, of course!) Still, multi-tasking and proactive effort lie some way in the future?(or, we'll just get that cleaner after all!) Glad I'm not alone in being frustrated at male seeming inability to m-t!

Tramp, and others, is it known what causes still birth? Does the term refer to situations where the baby dies in the last weeks of pregnancy as well as during labour? Crikey.

Zoey welcome home! Hurray that your bean is happy Smile Poor you, though - it sounds as if it could have been a smoother experience in hospital, and then your DH's GD passing away as well. Any chance of wearing a long jacket coat through the service to put off the dreaded MIL conversation?

backwardpossom · 13/09/2012 17:58

Hi all, I can't catch up, so just wanted to say that I hope you're all well and beanies are still bouncing (even if we can't feel them yet!).

I got my NT test results today and am low risk (1 in 2161 I think it said) which is obviously a relief. Had a crappy day at work, the kids were lovely, but everything seemed to go wrong! Rubbish! Ah well, have an OU tutorial tonight and will have a nice cup of tea and put my feet up after and try to forget about it all.

EthelredOnAGoodDay · 13/09/2012 19:30

Hi all,

Hope you're all ok. Just scan read first page, sorry to hear about your stressful day ZOey and Jojo hope op goes well when the time comes.

Had a busy week at work and then packing to go to devon for the week tomoz, so not got much time to write tonight. Anyway, just to say, I think Sarah's comments on parenthood were a pretty good summary of how things were for us too. As I've said on previous posts, the way in which people change once they've had children can be really quite surprising. And you just dont know really how you will be until the time comes! I work part time because I am the lesser earner, but I also love having something else to do besides being at home with DD. I love her dearly, but if I spent every day at home with her, I would end up loopy!!! Grin

ThreeForTea · 13/09/2012 19:41

I've just rung my friend to ask her if she knows anyone who will clean for me tomorrow for a couple of hours at short notice! Mil is coming at four when I get in from work to stay! I've completely run out of energy for today and dh is out. Mil is generally ok but she can be rude and sarcastic and I'm just not in the mood at the mo to listen to her comments! Fx friend will get hold of cleaner and save the last scraps of my pride!