Nov 2011 - almost time to push!

[TerrysNo2]

Last thread was full so thought I would just start this one off - hope you don't mind as I know I've not been a regular but god forbid you guys having nowhere to chat ;)

Right, caz what's happening, I am stalking you all over the shop and need more news :)

ali - I'll try the syringe/spoon method next feed!
I've got a list of "settling" tips from NHS, MWs and Cry-sis - it's all hit and miss if it works. 20 minutes of Sssh was the first resort! I was waddling up and down the living room singing songs from "Sharpe" at 4.30 this morning...

For now, I'm going to wait for the third MW to come out, let DP try his best tricks, and get some sleep.

Cali you are not a failure! You created this little girl, she is just getting used to the outside world. It used to be warm and snug with a reassuring heartbeat and swaying action.

I had major issues with breastfeeding but here's a few tips that might help:

Is Abigail having frequent wet nappies? If so, she's feeding fine. My DD had very dry cracked lips, didn't catch on this would be dehydration

Are you winding her after every feed. Trapped wind was the main cause of grumpiness for us. I used to go for a walk over gravel/bumpy surface and it always helped move her wind.

Before getting DD to latch on, can you express. Couple drops of colostrum/milk to intice her to latch on.

If I couldn't calm down DD after a feed, I gave her to DH to settle. DD couldn't settle on me whilst breastfeeding/expressing as she could smell milk. DH cuddled soothed and I sang lullabies to settle her.

Has your milk come in yet? My baby blues kicked in at this point and oh my, did I cry at everything. ESP that I couldn't breastfeed and felt a failure. Awful time for me so I am holding your hand as I know what it's like. You are doing wonderfully.

Hopefully someone with more experience in breastfeeding will have better advice. Just didn't want to ignore your post. We are here for support ante or post natal support x

Aah Cali is there a breast feeding clinic in your area? They are usually drop in ones - or a La Leche person? They often have more tips than the mw? Sorry I'm no help as I have no clue! Just take heart you are both learning and adapting it will settle down.

Cali I too have no breastfeeding advice (was unable to do it either) but someone else more experienced will definitely be able to help.

But as for yourself, I echo Moosey it really sounds like the blues have just kicked in. I remember this vividly after DDs birth, around three days after it I think. We were still in hospital and I just howled all day and all night (quietly as I could, so as not to scare people ) and I remember so well thinking 'I can't do this, I can't cope' but in desperation, I rang everyone I could think of who had had a baby, and every one of them said they had gone through the same thing and that it would pass, and sure enough it did. There was plenty more crying on her part, but thankfully much less on my part, and I did feel able to cope. I think its another of nature's cruel tricks - just when you need your mental strength the most, it deserts you for a day or two.

Thanks guys - you're saving my head.
It is the blues, and it's ok, this is why "I must take my tablets or I will go mad".

BF is going well, wet nappies etc - It's the screaming. DP had her calm on his arm for three hours, took her up to feed, once that was done - scream it all down again.
He's amazing at calming her down, but what do I do when he needs a sleep, like last night? Or goes back to work?
I'm praying this isn't colic.

A lady at yoga last week visited with her baby and said something very similar to what you are saying - constant crying before and after feeding. They looked up some baby massage techniques and found one where you cycle their wee legs and her baby did a GIANT fart! They discovered she is a very windy baby. It might be worth looking at some massage or skin to skin as much as possible as a calming technique? Sorry I'm just passing on stuff I've heard and not experienced! You'll get their :)

Cali I havent got anything else to add apart from my support. I am sure that others have suggested the things I would try i.e. settling her away from me, winding etc. You are going to get through this and you are doing the right thing. Try and keep the faith (although that is hard at various points during the seemingly never ending cycle). Try finding some support or a cafe or something somewhere, anywhere. Post on the breast/bottle feeding threads. From what I have seen there is a lot of great support on there.

I have a really bad headache. Not dehydrated or hungry. Just a random headache.

It does sound like a wind problem. How often is she having a poo?

I remember a midwife saying when born a newborn's tummy is the size of a marble, hence frequent small feeds first week.

Trying to think of other things you could try... Where is Abigail sleeping? Are you able to prop up one end of mattress so she's at slight angle? We have a Moses basket on a rocking stand so we put telephone book under one end which helped.

Also what are you eating. There are some foods that can generate more wind in baby. Link

We tried infancol drops which kind of worked but didn't cure. I think it was 6 weeks when dd's digestion became more mature. Now she can wind herself .

Not had time to read everything but didn't want to leave cali unanswered. Firstly you are doing so well and all this is normal so please do keep coming on and venting / asking questions. The first few weeks are so hard. If its colic you could try the Tiger in the Tree hold which I have heard is very good - "this is where baby lies along your arm with his tummy in your hand and his head in the crook of your elbow, just like a lazy tiger languishing along a tree branch!"

As Pam says cycling their legs is great for wind and constipation (fond memories of a constipated DS at 8wks with poo coming out like a playdoh machine as I cycled his legs )

Also for any BF worries you could try La Leche League who are meant to be really good.

Any specific questions the feeding board is full of really helpful ladies. Hugs to you, sounds like you are doing a fab job!

cali agree with the wind comments, rotating the legs quite high helps. we used infacol as well, which for some reason was orange smelling.

Hiya all!
Cali here's my thoughts. J was very very similar to this, and I'm sure it was caused in part by one almighty headache from his delivery. I look at his bounty pic now and he even looks like he's in pain!! But if it is wind then can I recommend something which was passed on to me by a Nicu nurse, she said all the women who worked in the unit swore by the Boots homeopathic colic granules, called Colicin or something, but if you asked for colic granules they should be able to find it. Apparently they work great. Or you could google Harvey Karp 'happiest baby on the block' and find a utube video of him on Richard and Judy doing the 'five s's': shush, swaddle, side, suck, sway - which appears to be miraculous and definitely something I'd try this time round - but I only found it after DS's colic subsided. And finally you might want to ditch caffeine - it has a 6 day half life in a newborn so can reach massive levels in them even if you only have a cup a day. My problem with Willow is I have to wake her for all feeds, and she used to be on caffeine anyway as one of her meds for her apnoea of prematurity so I'm not really following my own advice. But then that's because she's still a month off term so is likely to get rather less sleepy! Oh and she's up to 4lb 51.2oz! An ounce a day since we were released!!! :)

Cali sympathy. It can be very hard. I would second getting help from baby cafe/La Leche league or look at www.kellymom.com/

Can you latch her back on after she's come off? She may still want to suck? It sounds very early for colic but probably wind related. We found with DD that cranial osteopathy made a bit of difference (not a cure but DD had awful colic from 3 weeks to 12 weeks) - it's a very gentle cranial massage especially for newborns as she may just be a bit pummeled from labour.
Finally, have you tried a sling? Close wraps are fine from 5lb in weight and mean she will just be carried next to you all the time.

It's damn hard but it will pass.

Cali another vote for cranial osteopathy, slings and being kind to yourself.

It is hard, DD1 had dreadful colic and it was a real shock to the system. My family still comment on how she was and she's almost 3!

Cranial osteopathy got us fast results. Like MrsA said, not a cure but huge improvements from session 1.

I found that if she was too frantic too feed, if she couldn't calm down to latch then I would run a warm bath and feed her in there. It always worked.

The sling was also great.

How is her latch? Can you spend a day in bed, skin to skin and doing biological nurturing:

This site www.biologicalnurturing.com/ is great.

Did she have any antibiotics post birth? xx

Ps Close baby wraps are great. I used one for DD1 and have got it out again for DD2. I've taken her out in it twice and she settles brilliantly in it xx

Oh Cali - i have nothing to offer but all the time you want (& can find,) to talk here - the advice above all sounds brilliant, though i know i'm going to forget it all when Bumpalicious arrives & does her best to impersonate a stroppy whirlwind! oh sweetheart, keep as strong as you can & whenever you need us - we're here, even a newbie to the group like me. please don't ever despair - you sound like you're doing the best job ever! x

oh another note... the perineal massage thing - more thoughts please! haven't done it yet as my MW kinda didn't really promote it as something she'd found had worked in her personal & prof experience, but if i wanted to try it, why not? then i just kinda forgot about it..... but maybe at 39 weeks tomorrow i might be a tad late anyway...? one of my biggest issues from this first time perspective is maintaining the pelvic floor (yep, i know: once Bumpalicious is here, i'm not going to care about anything but her, but y'know... right now it feels super important..)

is it just me, but given the immense industry dedicated to lubing up what goes into us at that point on our body, why hasn't anyone thought of lubing up for anything exiting us? ok so baba swallowing a bunch of Durex play is not what one wants, but idk.... maybe something could work........

Mama I don't think you have to worry about lube for the exit. Babies come out pretty slippy! Plus you'll stretch as far as you need to to get your baby out. Their head is the widest bit so as long as they're well flexed it's about 10cm at the presenting part.

You dilate to 10-ish cm and your baby's head also moulds to squeeze through.

A very wise woman reminded me that our perineums are meant to give a bit, they tear and heal. I had a 1st degree with DD2 last week - it's been fine. I didn't actually realise I had it until I read my notes (bit of post birth confusion).

I found that my pelvic floor felt weak after DD1 but I put that down to 2hours + pushing, episiotomy, forceps and 3rd degree tear. I did pelvic floor exercises religiously and it's all fine now.

Pregnancy weakens your PF anyway.

I did loads of PF exercises yesterday and ache a bit today. Think I need to take it easy.

Though this time my pelvic floor feels fine, no aches or weakness but I had natural urge to push and 20 minute second stage so completely different to last time.

Oh massage shown to reduce tearing by 6% in first births but nothing in second+

gotcha :) - sorry, i forgot to add the smileys to show i wasn't being very serious at all about the lube note to self: check post before posting! :)

i spend about 20 hours a week on a yoga mat, either teaching or studying so am very much of the belief that the natural body is the strongest one & exercise & good health is our best strategy. but i did wonder about the massage thing, as like i say, my MW wasn't too fussed about it, she & i talked about how it might actually stretch the muscle tissue rather than tone it... then i saw here that for one lady it really worked.. so was just checking in - i love getting lots of view points. i really appreciate your comments, i think we have a similar attitude to it all - we'll do our best, but mother nature has a way of helping us out

yes, take it easy with the PF exercises, one of my fellow yoginis did wayyyy too much & ended up needing surgery to fix the "overhealing," that had taken place!! her scar became too thick & ridge-like, if you see what i mean. x

Cali, I had a complete nightmare breastfeeding. I did stick with it, for 14 months, but I remain unsure that was the best thing for us. I am glad I did, but I paid for it I think, who knows what would have been right. BUt what it tought me was that I could be TOO determined to get it right and flog myself too hard. I'm sorry she's giving you a tough time, DS needed winding and always brought a little back up after every feed - we largely went for the holding him up on our shoulder conventional route with reasonable success, but certainly never lying him straight down after a feed. And the franticness was an ongoing problem. I had lots of help from DP when he was there - passing me the baby once the nipple was ready and waiting and not before, that kind of thing! But I also got very low, and it felt like it would last forever, or at least until I expired from exhaustion and exasperation, and I am dreading it again this time, but this time I will at least know that it DOESNT last forever. Those first 6 weeks were SO hard. And then I had some problems which made the next few hard as well, but thats by the by. DS started to get easier. Gradually, inperceptably, easier. And 6 weeks a year from now will look like a heartbeat. A horrid, hard work, glorious, amazing, imposible, painful and wonderful heartbeat. You will all come through this.
I did perineal massage somewhat intermitendly the first time around and had a first degree tear that really wasnt a problem in its own right (nasty cyst that became an abscess underneath the tear but nothing to do with the tear WAS a problem). I too havnet really got round to it this time. As for all this grooming, my goodness, I feel like the most slovenly lady in the world. Frankly the midwives have seem more vaginas than I've had hot dinners, and while there is nothing appealing about showing mine around some, I know the state of my body hair is just not going to be on my mind at all. My legs are hairy, my bikini line isnt just hairy, its got a few ingrown hairs I cant see to get at. And thats just being a human woman as far as I can see. I'm going naturale in the name of feminism! Though ahd midwife today and its looking more and more like this baby will not be making her exit via my vagina. Seriously, she HAD managed to move yesterday, from being kind of north north west to being so north facing that it was like I had a third boob where her head was protruding in the middle.

mama - My gynae also thinks I overdid the pelvic floor exercises and got a "stressed" undercarriage because of it. I had been really worried about pelvic floor failure and prolapse issues due to family history. But then some years ago I also got too much tension there after an early miscarriage and d&c - as I said, I have some mind issues in this area, hence the birth fear.

Wishful thinking perhaps but I would like to pick up astanga yoga again once I am able, even if its just dvds. I think it gives such a strong flexible body and good core and pelvic muscles.

"cali" - hope things are working out re. calming your little one and breastfeeding. I agree with all the tips (I actually went to a chiropractor with my DD very early on and she was "manipulated" but I was a bit uncomfortable with that - it looked a little harsh). I also read a good, straightforward book, "What to expect when you are breastfeeding" by Clare Byam-Cook and she had this good tip on calming your little one (up to 3 months old) down when they are fraught, which worked better for me and DD then pacing around and shushing. But be warned, this sends them to sleep...

1. Sit comfortably with someone or something to keep you company (even in front of the television) so you are chilled and not rushing anything.
2. Place a pillow on your lap and lie your baby on its tummy, turning her head gently to the side so you can use a dummy (if you are doing that)
3. Gently and rhythmically pat your baby on its back just above the nappy, at the rate of one pat per second.
4. Persist for a few minutes - most babies find this very soothing and comforting
5. Leave them lying on your lap for a few minutes before trying to move them to their cot or wherever they sleep.

Maybe worth a try?

Perineal massage info:
www.oxfordradcliffe.nhs.uk/forpatients/090427patientinfoleaflets/090924perinealmassage.pdf

And a study
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16437520?dopt=Abstract

Cali your birthstory sounds very intense. So well done to you! I hope Abigail is able to soothe herself a little now. You are really doing a great job!
Welcome Franchini and Mama
Good luck TwoJack



TwoJacks thinking of you here - hope everything has gone well.

Morning all! It's only Tuesday? Argghh! Yesterday was a very very long day, work drama as per usual. However I am off til 1 today and thanks to a combination of hols owed and mw I have the day off completely tomorrow!
38 weeks today. I feel the end is in sight perhaps. Hope twojacks is ok.
Cali hope you had a good/better night x