TTC 6 mths+ GRADS THREAD

[Biscuitsandtea]

Afternoon.

I thought I'd start a Grads thread for those of us previously on the TTC 6 mths+ thread. I've been lurking on the ttc thread recently to see how everyone is getting on (having only very recently qualified to move off it!) and a few people were saying what a nice idea it would be if there was a grads thread so we don't lose each other.

Anyway, would be lovely to hear from other lovely ladies that were on that thread - or even if you were never on the ttc thread but had a sticky time of it getting your bfp then come and settle down with a decaf cuppa for a chat.

article about this

Hi Artemis the increased risk of congenital abnormalities with assisted fertility isn't related specifically to IVF. In fact when you adjust for parental factors it isn't worth talking about and Clomid (handed out like smarties!) has a higher risk of congenital abnormalities than IVF. So parental factors are important - and male factors may well play a role - I can't remember if you had ICSI? - but that is associated with a slight increase in congenital abnormalities, but is not related to the procedure but to the reason you need ICSI unfortunately.

Any defect (assisted conception) 8.3% vs spontaneous 5.8%
Chromosomal abnormalities: 0.5% assisted vs 0.4 % spontaneous - so really not worth worrying about I think that's unlikely to stop us though!

I did get the results at the same time because I'm overseas and they're thoughtful about 2ww and they do the bloods at 9 weeks and scan at 12-13 weeks then compute in front of you on the day. In fact, she told me before scanning that my risk based on bloods was already 1:3000 which was exceptionally reassuring.

ele glad scan went ok goes off to google notching and fingers crossed for 28 week scan.
A years maternity leave sounds lovely - but think I'll end up with 8 months - unless I go off early (that is with stopping at 38 weeks - is that crazy!?!)
Finances might have to play a role and I guess I'd prefer more time after than before...

MrsM thanks so much for the study on congenital abnormalities, it's helped put my mind at rest about the added risk. The midwife looked very concerned when I told her it was IVF but I doubt she is an expert. We didn't have ICSI, just conventional IVF, so the risk factor should be no different than for other couples our age. It's great that your clinic thinks sensitively about scan results, must be such a relief. The midwife did tell me that if we turn out to be high risk they will contact me ASAP, which makes me wonder why they can't do that for everyone. I don't understand why the NHS relies so much on the costly and unreliable post when we have new fangled inventions such as phones and email available! I'm going to have to learn to manage worrying. A friend with teenagers told me that once the baby arrives, constant worry is going to be a normal part of life so I guess I should get used to it now

I can't see me being able to finish work before 38 weeks either, though I mostly work from home so that should help. It probably is crazy but with no prior experience I have no idea what to expect!

Love to all... I am wondering if Teu is also lurking and might come and join us

So glad to read the good scan news. This is just a quick post as Thomas is waking up. I will say though, the worry doesn't stop when they're here!

T is so tiny and precious I worry about everything. He's doing well, but I was in tears yesterday when he did a little heartbroken cry in his sleep - I can't protect my baby from bad dreams, and felt terrible that he had something bad to dream about! :( He makes DH and I both soo happy too, just watching him eat and sleep and everything. They're worth all the worry and more besides.

stacks I remember visiting a friend when my son was about 6 weeks old and he cried in his sleep, and she was 5 months pregnant (and understandably a bit hormonal) and burst into tears at the thought that he was having a bad dream :-) It's so true though, you just wonder what could be upsetting their dreams at such a tender age.

Art and Mellow - I don't think it's mad to finish at 38 wks at all, I'm finishing early as I have to use annual leave, so my maternity leave doesn't actually start until the day before my EDD, but because I need to use up annual leave, I can finish 4 weeks early (so so different when you're working for yourself, I get the advantage of having an employer with quite good maternity conditions - and I'm very grateful).

Art sensitive question, but I'm not sure how old you are, but I would say that I'm 40 now (will be 41 when this bean is born) and when I did my nuchal and blood tests etc, they told me that my age-related risk for downs at age 40 is 1:98 - which is quite scary and we were expecting a high risk result and to have to make a decision about an amnio, but when they calculated using my Nuchal scan and my bloods my overall risk came back as 1:996 - so managed to avoid having to consider an amnio. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that they give you a lot of doom and gloom sometimes if you're an older mum, but the statistics quoted are all generic, every woman is individual and you're own stats will likely differ from the norm.

I'd also say, i have a friend who had 3 boys, at age 38, 39 and 41 and she got a high risk for each one (i think it was about 1:40 for each pregnancy) so she had 3 amnio's and in each case the baby was absolutely fine and healthy (they're driving her mad now), so even a statistically low risk like hers still means that 39 out of every 40 babies will be A-Okay.

We told our little boy (he's 3) yesterday that I have a bun in the oven, and he took it really well and was all excited (that will change I know) but it was such a relief to see him asking to 'see' the baby in my tummy, and looking forward to the baby kicking his hand in my tummy (not feeling much outside kicking yet, will be a few weeks I think).

Afternoon all,

Stacks little T just gets cuter every time you describe him. I hadn't even considered crying in their sleep. I got a little bit angry with DH for prodding my tummy to make baby "dance" the other day. It woke him up, DH got to feel a flurry of movement and was happy, but it made me cross that he could have hurt him. I'm sure he didn't. I hadn't realised quite how animal / protective I would get...I'm going to have to watch myself! Love that you're still around btw and love hearing about little T :)

Ele glad that your son took the news well. I was very in love with my sister when she turned up. I was 3.3 when she was born. However, she was a screamer and Mum told me that I did get annoyed with her screaming. She found me one day with a duster over her face and when she asked what I was doing I told her nonchalantly "polishing the baby" I'm not sure I was "polishing" her but there we go!

Artemis and MrsM I was flirting with the idea of staying at work until 38 weeks because I work from home, and then I realised that I have 4 weeks of hols to use up. If I don't use it I lose it, so that's the only reason I'm finishing earlier. I'm still planning on working to 36 weeks and then starting actual mat leave from EDD, like Ele.

Artemis DH is self employed and has just lost 2 weeks wages over Xmas due to family and house commitments. It's bloody hard and I'm still not quite sure how it will go during maternity but I think I've got it under control. He takes responsibility for DIY, cooking and smelly things; I do laundry and finances. So it really is down to me to sort the finances and I'm not sure he appreciates how tight it is. RE your results - I'm sure your results will be fine. It is bloody scarey though, pretty much this whole thing. We chose not to have the tests because we were so sick of tests and well, what will be will be. But I know a lot of people think I should have had it done to prepare for the worst. I can't think like that anymore. It's such a tricky thing to do. Saying that, I'm pretty chilled about the pregnancy now and only get super scared when we have tests / go to hospital but then we've had a lot of prolonged bad luck so I guess it's only natural. My friend who had an instadiff and fairly easy pregnancy worried the whole way through and got herself into a right old pickle. I guess that it's pretty normal to be scared, we just know a bit too much sometimes IMHO.

On that, we were having some big questions about the whooping cough jab and really stressing about it. Mum has always been anti jab and I've not had quite a few, so naturally I'm a bit about these things. But now I have baby inside and am the responsible person for little person I start to think, "oh god, what if I don't and something goes wrong or my baby gets sick and it's my fault..." Luckily my sis and her bf are uber Oxford medical geeks who have either studied, researched, taught at Oxford or worked for pharma support companies. They went through all of the research with me at Xmas and basically said, we're not guaranteeing it's 100% safe but looking at all of the evidence and the vaccination components and the history of the jab in kids and women in other countries and the fact that the baby will be in the third trimester and the fact that you are only passing antibodies via the cord and not passing the component parts of the drug via the actual cord we reckon it's more safe to have it than not to. Also, I had always been told that drug companies paid doctors to give the vaccinations but this is categorically incorrect. I was corrected by geeky sis's boyf that the NHS pay the GPs to administer it as they have to offer an incentive for them to take time out of clinics to give the vaccinations and because it saves the NHS money in the long term by not having to treat v.sick people. I was so relieved to have had this conversation with someone who understood it more than people who spout second hand nonsense and scare stories.

I started my pregnancy yoga course last night, which was lovely and I can't wait to do more. It's the easiest yoga I have ever done. So easy and relaxing in fact that in the last 10 minutes of 'breathing' I dribbled on the huge stack of cushions under my head and did a sneaky but leaking trump under the blanket We also did some all fours poses, which apparently are also good for giving birth in. Yoga teacher commented how this way of giving birth "takes us back to our roots" I had some other thoughts about how baby got in at that point Oh and we had to introduce ourselves at the start, Artemis you'll like this. 5/6 women in the room had had no pregnancy symptoms and were all between 18 - 26 weeks. I was the only one who had had sickness. So I wouldn't worry about the lack of symptoms at all!! I also spouted that I was still being a bit sick sometimes, they all looked horrified, so I went on that this was probably down to diet, that I was going back to my nutritionist who had helped me resolve a hormone imbalance and that we'd tried for 3.5 years and it was an emotional time for us. Oh gawd, where the actual fuck did that come from!! There was a collective Ahhhh and I went BRIGHT red! The teacher was so lovely, she just bought out my inner hippy and I felt all talking stick like and mother earth. Still it was nice to be able to properly relax.

I now realise I've written an epic essay and I need to finish up some work and find more food. Ravenous doesn't come close to describing this hunger at the moment....

Waves and bumpy hugs all round xxxx

Hi all. Artemis invited me over here. Just a quick post to say hi (then I'll get round to reading everything and catching up). By my dates I'm in week 8. Horribly nauseous one day, feel tickety boo the next. Other than that very few symptoms. Still don't actually believe it might be happening.
MrTeu is amused by how my brain has turned to mush already. Filled the kettle to boil the water for pasta last night, put the kettle on the hob, flicked it's switch and then turned the hob on!

Congratulations Teuchter - so good to have another recruit :-)

Hopefully Mr Teu will prevent you from burning the house down so you can hang around here for the next 32 weeks!

Hope today is a tickety boo day (and not a 'feeling seasick all day' day)

Waves to all :-)

Hi Heart I did NCT classes, there were 6 couples in our group. I was 37, one girl was 38, three were between 29 and 32 and the other girl was 24. It probably depends on the demographics where you live, but I think they tend to attract slightly older mums (maybe due to the cost or a stronger interest in breastfeeding etc?) so I think you'll find being in your 30's will be the norm.

I'm still in touch with 2 of the girls on a regular basis and I've found it a great support as I don't really know that many people local to me with babies. Our instructor was really nice and there was lots of group exercises where all the men would discuss various issues and the women would discuss different things, to see things from each others perspectives and stuff and suggestions of how they can support you through the labour/birth process etc. I really enjoyed them, but I think it probably totally depends on the teacher/folk in the class.

I think you do brief intro stuff about yourself, but nothing about your ttc journey (not in my class anyway) we didn't mention to anyone that we'd be trying for 3 years etc (don't know about you, but at the time I sort of felt ashamed that it had taken that long to conceive - ridiculous I know, and I don't feel like that now (now that I have a child) but I think ttc messes up your perspective a bit!

i've never watched OBEM - but whenever I see a birth thing on the telly now, it just reminds me of having my little boy :-)

Afternoon all!

Well...19 weeks today, nearly half way there now. I welled up this morning thinking about it. And whilst TTC will always haunt me, I do feel like the sadness has lifted and my normal self is starting to come back. That could be partly to do with things being much more positive in the land of princess. Baby is still kicking loads and loads and seemed to be having some sort of party in there between 4 and 6 this morning! I am a bit tired as was up for quite a long time in the night. Had a snack, listened to the radio and managed to drift off again for a couple of hours. This last week I've had no nausea, did some swimming at the weekend, had a facial, saw a couple of close friends for some nice relaxing girly time and lovely lunches and had loads of good ideas for the house, not to mention a spot of sanding the stairs and measuring up for furniture. We have working central heating and things seem to be marching on. Plus the in laws seem to be acting less odd and everyone's being nice and friendly to each other again. And breathe "ahhhhh" :)

We've decided to go for hypnobirthing classes, over NCT, which we start next month. I was hoping to do it later, say March but the teacher is on hols and is doing two intense weekend sessions instead, which we can't commit to as we've got a couple of weekends away planned in March. She thinks April is too late as we need to practice the method before baby arrives. I can't wait to start the course. My friends has been and is a total convert as is her husband who was a massive skeptic to start with. Luckily we have a teacher down here who is not only a practitioner but is also approved by Marie Mongan to teach others and sits on the UK board of teachers. We've opted for a group class as I'm hoping to meet some other couples there and the ladies on my yoga course seem nice too, although I think everyone was a bit nervous and keeping themselves to themselves last week. If we get a chance to do the NHS antenatal classes we'll do those too as they're in the hospital and I think they include a tour of the facilities. Plus they're free so it would seem silly to turn them down.

Welcome Teu lovely to have more 10 plussers on board. Was so heart warming to hear the news of your bfp over on the 10 + board. Hope you are having a non sicky day. Has it all sunk in yet?

Mellow Hope all of your family and friends are excited about your news. And that you had a lovely weekend. How are the moving plans going?

Heart 14.5 months maternity?! Dear God, I want some of what you're doing!! That's really fab! And I'm sure you'll fill your days with lots of lovely things in the 6 weeks before the arrival of bump. Yay to the emergence of your bump! Maternity jeans are the best aren't they? I'm not sure I'll ever go back to my old ones, these are just so roomy! I didn't think that I had a massive bump, but there aren't any long mirrors at the in laws that I can look at myself in, so got a bit of a shock the other week when I was out shopping and went, "Wow, I really do look properly pregnant!" Friends have started rubbing the bump too, which I find a bit weird but as they're close friends I'm not narked. I think I'll be more "back away" with strangers

Artemis how are you getting on? Hope you are feeling better.

Oh and I hear the Royal Baby is due in July. Who else here has a July EDD? It's going to be baby fever and all I keep thinking is that they better not steal either of our names (I don't think they will ours are a bit gauche for royalty)

There's quite a clan of us over here now. I was wondering if we should have an EDD list to make us more of an "antenatal" thread and to celebrate not having to write about our TTC journeys and woes and because I'm so nosy Anyway, I'll start it off:

EDD
Princess First baby 10/06/2013

Waves and loves and hugs to all xxx

Hi everyone

Welcome Teu, lovely to see you over here. Hope the nausea is easing, it should do soon hopefully. I did at your baby brain incident! I don't think I've been any more vague than usual but then i am starting from a fairly low base

Eleth thanks very much for sharing the info on your nuchal test results. I'm 39 (due date is 2 months before my 40th) so the first thing the midwife did was quote stats at me, but I don't suppose population level stats have much meaning for individuals. It's reassuring to know your individual figures were very different. It still feels like a waiting game but the days are ticking slowly by. Great that your son took the news well, 3 years is a good age gap as well, he'll have a bit more understanding of what's going on than if he was younger.

Stacks you sound totally in love with little Thomas, your post made me a bit damp round the eyes

Mellow how did you get on with sharing the news? Hope you had lots of excitement!

Heart that's brilliant news on the maternity leave. I'd do that if I could but might have to win the lottery or rob a bank first. I had a setback earlier this week when the quote for the work we need doing to our roof came in at roughly equivalent of 7 months' mortgage payment, ie my entire maternity leave.... Lots of ringing round roofers later a 2nd and 3rd opinion suggest that the work is mostly unnecessary and the first company were trying to rip us off. A relief but made me realise how perilous the finances could be. Hurrah for the bump! I'm dreading maternity clothes shopping as I'm quite tall and it's bad enough finding normal clothes to fit but I don't need to worry about that yet.

Princess I love your essays! Halfway there, that's terrific. I still feel that time is dragging but seeing how far on other people are is giving me hope. Glad things are getting better on the domestic front. Lots of kicking must be a good sign and it sounds like you've been doing some lovely things to stay relaxed. Are your friends excited for you? I've never heard of hypnobirthing, something else for me to google...

I have looked up NCT classes in our area as much for meeting people as anything, but the only one for August due dates is a 40-minute drive away so not so good for meeting local parents. All my friends with kids are years ahead of me and talking secondary schools rather than baby names so I'm a bit worried about being isolated. I'll do the NHS ones but can't imagine I'll have much in common with the other parents judging by the clientele at the children's centre when I went for the booking appointment (think early 20s, sweary, women overweight and knackered looking, men in tracksuits and hoodies with prominent neck tattoos). Not wishing to pass judgment on anyone but on the face of it I don't see any immediate common ground.

Damn the royal baby, bloody hell if people think I'm bandwagon-jumping after all those years of ttc I will be seriously annoyed. I can't imagine they'll steal our names either Princess but can't completely rule it out. On the name front, it's the only thing MrA is willing to talk about - otherwise his sole reaction so far has been to occasionally give me panicked looks when babies are mentioned . Having said that the one thing we have reached a little impasse over is the baby's surname. We're not married, and even if we were I wouldn't want to change my name. Without compromising my identity, Mr A has the kind of slightly unusual surname that attracts comment and is something members of his family have tried to live up to, if that makes sense, and not in a good way. He just assumed the baby would take his name but neither of us is comfortable with having a different surname to our child (and being feminist and a bit bolshy I don't see why we'd automatically go with accepted tradition). There seems little room for compromise on this one! We considered double-barreling but it would just sound naff. Has anyone dealt with this question, or do you know anyone who has?

I went back to the gym on Saturday for the first time since mid-IVF and had to tell the instructor about being diffed. It's actually the first time I've said the words 'I'm pregnant' out loud. It felt weird and made me realise it still doesn't feel properly real. I'm a bit less panicked about the imminent likelihood of miscarriage as time goes on but am counting the days to the 12 week scan. I'm not normally into wishing my life away but this seems like it's going to be the longest 9 months ever!

Waves to everyone, hope you're all well. I shall do a separate post with the EDD list so it doesn't get lost amid my waffle

EDD

Princess First baby 10/06/2013

Artemis First baby 09/08/2013

Hi princess so glad you're having a good week. My nausea is getting better, but not gone yet (but only in waves now, not constant) and I'm still being sick every now and again, but I feel much much better. I think my problem just now is that my appetite is starting to come back so I want to eat stuff, but my stomach isn't ready for everything yet, so it's a bit trial and error (e.g. eat it and pray it stays down :-)

I do feel better though and managed to go out for lunch with DH and DS on saturday, which was great (fell ill all afternoon when I got back, but I've not been able to go out for lunch for months!)

Hope your hypnobirthing classes go well, they sound great, I've bought myself a natal hypnotherapy book (same kind of thing) and hope to get a CD and do some 'self training' before this birth, as I can't really fit in a class. I'm trying to get myself into a more positive frame of mind this time - I fully expect it to fly out the window when the time comes, but you never know, there are really good reports out there from folk who did it, so it might work, attending a class is definitely going to be much better.

I handed in my Mat B form this week, and have discovered (fortunately :-) that it looks as if my work will let me add public and privilege holidays onto my mattie leave, which will also take me up to nearly 14 months (so, at the moment I plan on finishing on 26 April 2013 and return to work on 30 June 2014 :-)

Obviously I need to run this past work, but I get excited just thinking about it :-)

Following in your footsteps.

Eletheomel, Second baby, EDD 28 May 2013.

art sorry, cross posted :-)

I can remember what the countdown to week 12 scan was like (esp when you're thinking about screening results too) I hope the weeks don't drag too much for you and you get good news when the results come in.

You're younger than me, that must make you feel good :-)

Just wanted to say that me and DH weren't married when we had our DS (he proposed in the labour room (got me at my weakest, I say :-D

But he was quite fixed about baby taking his surname, I wanted him to have my name, but to be honest my DH generally lets me get away with everything and my views on decisions generally hold, so I sort of felt that I should let him have a 'win'.

I wasn't ready to take his name though, so I've not yet officially changed my name and so my surname is different to my little boy's (my DH didn't mind if I took his name or not, so I've not bothered).

I was thinking I'll go over to his surname when I next update my passport so that we will all have the same name, right now my DS is unaware of it, so it's not a problem (and changing your name is a hassle!)

So, not an ideal solution really, and I can't really help you, just wanted to let you know what I did (e.g. I caved!), but I did put my surname as my son's first middle name and I got a bigger say in choosing the first name (as he got the choice over surname).

I did consider double-barrelling, and I think our surnames would be okay, but I just couldnt' help but feel it'd be a bit poncy - but maybe we should have given it more thought...

p.s. I had the same preconceived ideas about the clientelle at NHS classes, I think there is likely to be more younger mums than older mums. I didnt attend in the end as nobody told us about them and by the time we asked (at 5 months gone) they were all booked up!

Waves and hugs to everyone!

EDD

Princess First baby 10/06/2013

Artemis First baby 09/08/2013

Eletheomel Second baby 28/05/2013

Hi Eleth, thanks so much for the comments on names. It is a tough one particularly given the weight of custom on this issue.

My name isn't original or unusual but I'm attached to it, partly because I've had it for 40 years and partly because being self employed it carries my work reputation with it. Even if we got married and I changed my name in my personal life I'd want to keep my professional identity, and I know that's getting harder as the authorities don't like people with dual identities for obvious reasons! Double-barreling for us would only sound OK if mine went at the end, and would only work full stop if he and I both did the same thing. When I asked Mr A if he would consider changing his own name he reacted as though I'd suggested he climb Everest in his underwear, but at least it made him understand how I would feel!

I daresay we'll find a solution... we have thinking time but eventually we'll have to! I can see me caving too, mostly because I know he has felt 'on the sidelines' during the IVF process and I don't want him to feel marginalised when baby actually arrives. I do like the suggestion of having a bigger say in first name choices if it takes his surname, since he has come up with some fairly outlandish suggestions so far

Glad your nausea is subsiding and that's really great news on your maternity leave. Being off work until June 2014, that's definitely something to get excited about!

It's weird how the demographics work at the NHS clinics isn't it?! I would say that most of the ladies at our hospital are around my age and upwards. And most have been mid- to late- 30s. I felt quite young (31) and it certainly wasn't like the Year 10 school outing feel I'd been expecting. I was pleasantly surprised. And felt a bit for being oh so judgey MN what have you done to me or rather maybe it's all that Jezza K I consumed over organic lunchtimes during summer

Although I would site myself as being a feminist I did take DH's surname when we got married. Not in a I wanted to belong to his family / be his possession type way but because we had already started trying for babies beforehand and I wanted to have the same name as the babies and him and I wanted to feel like I was starting my own family. I was also quite excited about being a Mrs, but being a Mrs Maidenname sounded like my Mum or my Nan which was too weird. Lots of our friends who aren't married and even quite a few who are and have kept their maiden names for work / principle reasons have double barreled their babies surname. As we live in Brighton, there's a lot of v. trendy first names with very long double barreled surnames so they all sound vair posh and like the children of rock gods. Double barreling wouldn't have worked in our case, as it would have been a ridiculous surname. So it was never an option anyway. As a compromise we're choosing middle names from my family, so it will be "original our choice with no outside influence" first name, maternal family middle name (variations of my grandparents names - sadly the only set of grandparents who aren't alive) and then paternal surname. If his family need any justification for why we haven't included any of their traditional family names, as I suspect they will, they'll be told that the baby has their surname. Oh the bloody politics. It's worse than wedding invites and table plans...

Hmm...it's a hard call. If you really don't like Mr A's surname Artemis could you get him to change his by deed poll to yours instead? That to me would be the best piece of strident feminism you could pull! But I also think lots of children don't have their dad or mum's surname and it really isn't a problem. Could you compromise, say, have your surname and let him have ultimate say on first name?

Oh and I would defo check out hypnobirthing... it's quite woo and involves lots of affirmations but all of the stuff I've read mentions no tearing and very calm births which sounds brill to me. It's all about breathing the baby out; no pushing. You put yourself into deep relaxation and let your body do what it's supposed to do. Lots of people who do it have no drugs whatsoever and although I'm feeling quite excited about gas & air, I don't want any other kind of drug. I also conceived the cycle I had hypnosis and concentrated on doing lots of meditation / positive visualization CDs, all of which helped me to have a complete u turn on feeling like a mega failure. It gave me coping strategies, which in turn made TTC ok. I like the idea of being well rehearsed for the birth and having coping strategies in place so it fits in well with all of my beliefs and because of the successes I had with all of the woo / diet stuff.

On a separate note, I've also been discussing a very scary contraption called an Epi-No with my friend, which is used to ahem stretch down there and get used to the sensation of a baby's head coming out. It's a sort of balloon that you use from week 34. Apparently it's good for toning too. Who knew these sorts of things even existed eh?

X post Artemis ignore my comments about name or maybe just reverse the whole surname/first name thing! at climbing everest in his pants. Mr P has certainly had some moments through the pregnancy and what's expected of him down the line to date too...

princess I only came accross the epi-no a few weeks ago, I was on another discussion board and someone posted a link to some research done on it and it didnt really appeal to me (to be honest, even if it worked its not something that would tempt me at all!) Link to article is at: midwifethinking.com/2010/08/07/perineal-protectors/

Before DS I was more terrified of 'tearing' than any other aspect of labour (I just couldn't imagine a situation where your flesh would suddenly tear - I kept thinking of the pain)

However, I have to say, I had a 2nd degree tear with my son and I literally didn't feel it happening at all, I just felt the crowning sensation of his head, whereas in my head I thought it would all be about the tear, in reality I didnt even know I'd had a tear until they told me I needed stitches.

I'm still not keen on a tear this time, but at least I know it's not as bad as I thought (just wanted to try and share some reassurance :-)

Hey Ele, thank you so much for the reassurance. That is indeed very reassuring. And thanks for the link. I'll check it out later. Oh god, I'm terrified of tearing - my main reason for hypnobirthing is the fact that people tend not to (or maybe it's just very shrewd marketing) and the thought of an episiotomy makes me feel very unwell to put it politely! I think they recommend perineal massage with hynobirthing using high quality vegetable oil or the epi-no. It's a long way off but I can suffer from anxiety and this is the sort of thing that will keep me awake at night. Hence my neurosis to have things in place to help. But knowing that I won't feel some almighty ripping is already making me feel better.

It's horrible the stuff you have to think of, eh? I'd love to see men having that choice (would you prefer your skin to be cut or be torn? :-D

I meant to do perineal massage last time, managed it occassionally, but it was hard to feel round my bump late on in pregnancy (I was all up front) so ideally, you might want to get Mr P on board to help you with that :-)

I don't think you tend to get episiotomies these days unless they have to use forceps or a ventouse, although my friend did have to have one and she was also terrified, but said it was actually fine. They gave her a local anaesthetic before the incision, so you don't feel it at all.

Reducing the instances of tearing is one of the main reasons I wanted a water birth (and still do this time) I'd read that a water birth is less likely to result in a tear, and the relaxation techniques of hypnobirthing appeal in that aspect to.

I'd also say that while I found the stitches really nippy when they were putting them in, once they were in I had no trouble with them at all, no itching or pain and everything healed up really quickly with no hassle.

Tearing? Episiotomies? Stretching of the bits? Bloody hell...

Art, you know giving birth feels like you're just having one massive poo... :-D

I'm hoping to start pooing more now the morning sickness is receding (odd how my hopes and dreams change :-)