In order not to hijack the 'stupid things people say' thread...

[ArsMamatoria]

Goingpostal, thanks so much for your kind words. I'm so sorry that you are going through this too. Blimey it's awful, isn't it? Thanks for the links - I'm a WAY member and have read Rachael Green's book, but found the merrywidow website especially helpful.

It's caught me a bit by surprise actually, this bleak time. I thought I had been plodding along ok and suddenly, wham, it feels very, very raw again.

I want friends to call, but then can't cope with speaking to them (hence my sudden appearance on MN). They must be getting exasperated by my failing to return their calls, but I just don't have the energy, mental or physical to answer the inevitable question, 'how are you?'.

I'm a bit worried that I might be going mad. I am terrified of something happening to one of the girls - that's normal for everyone, I know. However, it's not limited to being scared every time they go in a car, train, within 200 yards of a river bank, over a bridge, burglars etc. I have started to get panicky over the thought of weird post-apocalyptic scenarios - mega virus, zombies, alien invasions etc . Now, I'm an atheist and I like to think of myself as a rational person, so what is wrong with me?

And I'm probably completely fucking up my elder daughter as well. I'm impatient and cross a lot of the time and then crowd her with hugs and kisses to try and make up for it. When I got cross a few weeks ago, she said 'You're not cross, you're sad because Daddy died.' I mean, what 2 year old talks like that? What am I doing to her?

Oh, bugger, bugger, bugger. What are we going to do?

Sorry to be self-indulgently ranty. Right I really am going to go to bed now...

Didn't want this to go unanswered Ars.

I am sorry that it's me here though as I have virtually no experience of this.

I am very aware that words fron friends/family/random strangers can be practically useless at a time like this and so I'll say nothing except my heart and thoughts ard with you.

I hope someone with more wisdom comes along soon and can help you.

The girls sound wonderful and that is down to you and not the occasional crossness you display to them. Keep on hugging them.

I really am sorry for your loss and I have no words for you I'm so sorry - but if I was near you I'd hold you and let you just talk - whatever you needed.

Hello Ars. You post late - are you up late not sleeping, or not in the UK?

You're at 8 months, crappy old time. Grief is so raw and constant in the early days it shouldn't be a surprise that you do feel this way - but perhaps you've had a couple of better days and then suddenly you've come crashing down again. Never a good feeling but it is how things go - very very normal.

I was exactly the same re the phone. I would sit and cry and want someone to be with me, to ring me, to say the right thing - could never pick up the phone myself - then the phone would ring and I would ignore it. and unless it was good friends who I was in touch with anyway, I wouldn't ring back. and I know that a lot of people just gave up. but it's exhausting because as you say you don't want to have to answer that question about how you are. also I think that I just wanted to talk to my DH about how I was feeling - you know, he was the only person who would have been able to help and of course he's not here, and it's because he's not here that you're in this terrible place.... goes round and round.

tbh I got to 3 years a few months ago and it is only recently that I have willingly answered the phone and found myself enjoying having a chat with friends. probably because I am past the "how are you" stage now and we can just be a bit more normal. you do get there, eventually - as I'm sure you know it's not a matter of getting "over" anything. just getting through it and learning to cope with living with the situation and your grief, which eases little by little.

as for your daughter, she is clever and sensitive. she understands that you are very sad and that sometimes you will be cross because it's all a bit much for you. I don't think you're doing anything wrong for her to be thinking like that.

got to go, ds is waking up from his nap but will post again. happy to chat more if it helps.

Ars do you use the WAY chatroom? I find it tremendously useful and there is usually somebody else that can't sleep.

Not always me.

chaos Thank you for such a sweet post. Sometimes it's simply the acknowledgement that's needed.

Goingpostal Yup, not sleeping. Well, leaving it late enough so that I'm reeling with tiredness before attempting to sleep, actually. Just trying to avoid the 'replays' (if I think about it hard enough, can I make those doctors walk backwards out of the relatives room?). Your description of the phone thing is just so familiar. I keep putting off listening to my answerphone messages!

DadInsteadofMum Not really - yet - but I am starting to think about making more of an effort to do WAY things. Do you go to many of the events?

Preoccupying thought for the day - his brain being the repository for so many ideas. He had read literally thousands of books, generated so many ideas about the ideas in these books, listened to so much music, written so much. I just can't come to terms (ghastly phrase, apols) with all this just vanishing - poof - in a second.

Howwwwllll.

....me too.

But I am four years down the line.

Eight months is still very raw indeed. I didn't realise at the time just how raw.

I am glad that you are using the Merry Widow site. It was a lifeline to me. I almost never go there now, but post the occasional 'thank you' message, to assure fellow travellers that things DO get better.

Not everything. And not all the time. But better nonetheless.

...it's not just losing your spouse, it's having your whole life rearranged. But you will get used to it. And you do have the ability to fashion things to a shape that suits you. Just take your time. It takes time.

...I know that there are so many empty words. So many people who said they would 'do anything' to help, and at 8 months are nowhere to be seen.

...so call their bluff. Be unafraid. If you need the help, call it in. Don't wait for offers...

..and good luck. Things will get better. But it can't be hurried. The pain is there now. It won't disappear, and perhaps it's right that it won't, but it will fade. When the time is right.

Ars - totally with you on the reeling from tiredness thing. harsh way to treat yourself but effective to stop your mind circling round and round at night . still do it myself some of the time (but less often, as with most things).

so for you thinking about all that has been lost. there is so much isn't there, all the losses that others don't realise, or perhaps don't stop to break down for themselves. they see that the person (your person)) has gone but fail to recognise all the stories, memories, knowledge, possibilities... I don't know if me saying this helps but it might help you to know that all that you are going through is normal and that others go through it too (and as retiredgoth says, it does get better, eventually). I always wanted to know that I was somehow not alone in experiencing each form of agony. a small comfort but a comfort nonetheless.

I believe that your mind has to churn this stuff around, over and over. it goes on doing it all the time, in the background. I think of it like a radio that you are listening to then you focus on something else, then mentally tune back into the radio - you know it's been on, the noise is always there in the background, but you don't always listen to the details. but all the time your mind is processing, trying to come to terms with the massive thing that has happened to you and to your husband and your children. sometimes you try to think about the whole thing, and it is too overwhelming and other times you pick a subject and worry away at it, consider it, examine it, go through the painful what ifs and might have beens and whys. and then your mind can put that away for a while and move on to another thing to grind through.

I must turn in as I am up too late already but I will continue to check in here.

one last thing - are you getting enough practical help? I did it with "just" a baby, you have a toddler too. exhausting - mentally, physically, emotionally. if you need practical help, it is worth thinking about how you ask for that, even if asking for emotional support proves too hard. I had a good book about the practical stuff and I emailed a link to people and used a bit of the advice. will dig it out and let you know the details.

I am sorry for you and your grief. I have had a series of close bereavements and the near death (but recovery) of DD1. I have, and still have, the crazed thoughts about disasters which I believe is due to these experiences. (3 years ago.) They have lessened and become more rational. Such loss makes everything so fragile - you do go mad in a way. But from the way you are writing I believe you will come back.

Your daughter sounds like a kind, sweet little person. You are going through this as a family. She is young but you can still take comfort in her wisdom - I think it shows how much you are getting 'right' against the odds. And forgive yourself when you're irritable - you have more reason than most. Keep on showing how much you love them - it will outweigh everything else in the end. xx

Ars I go to some events but Iuse the chatroom a lot it has been a real lifeline for me especially in the early days.

Retired Goth, that's just it - the having your whole life rearranged. Identity more than anything, perhaps (I was 19 when I met him and we so shaped each other I can't conceive of myself without him).

Goingpostal, the radio analogy is spot on (and rather poetic, actually).

I do have a lot of support. A couple of years ago we moved into the granny flat in his parents' garden and I live there still. His parents and siblings have become like my own family and having them so close stops me sinking too far down. We've been propping each other up, really. There are times when it can be awkward. OH and I regularly used to invite friends to stay and I don't want to lose touch with those friends. Yet I feel weird about having male friends in the house - weird because I don't know how to act around them any more (ribald, flirtatious humour now feels highly inappropriate), weird because feel I somehow ought to explain them to my MIL and FIL (silly, I know - they would never think there was anything going on), and weird because I don't want to unsettle DD1. Mostly weird because it acentuates the loss in a way that being in the house alone does not in quite the same way. I was in the house alone reasonably often, but never when we had friends round.

Sally, thanks - it's comforting to know that the crazy end-of-the-world thoughts lessen over time. I'll stop stockpiling tins...

DadInsteadofMum, I've been to the meal in Oxford the night before the AGM. There's a trip to Legoland coming up and I'm trying to decide whether that's feasible. I'm definitely going to have a lurk in the chatroom.

Not tonight though. Think I might be ready to sleep - bit earlier this time.

Thanks, all of you, so much.

Ars, I was also 19 when I met DH, 31 when he died. The route to forging your own identity is something I can identify with for sure. And it takes time, so don't rush things. Right now you are still in those early months and you just need to get through each day rather than work too hard on who you are and where you're going.

It sounds like you have a fantastic family around you - but you must sometimes crave space. my ILs are lovely but I really value my privacy and keep myself very separate in terms of social activity - I want to run my own life independently and they can sometimes be a bit smothering in terms of their interest in what I'm doing, where I'm going, who I'm seeing (and yes I worry about people jumping to conclusions about male friends, when they are just friends!). You know that you don't have to explain anything to anyone... try to put that on the list of "less important things to worry about".

Well done on getting to bed earlier too - so important to rest if you can.

Keep posting if it helps!

Hello, i'm another WAY member, my DH died from a brain tumour almost 2 years ago now, having been ill for 2 years.
i remember the early days of late nights in the WAY chatroom mostly to avoid going upstairs to an empty bed.
things do get easier in some ways, well we just get used to them i suppose.

[waves to OJ as hasn't seen her in the WAY chat room for a while]

LunaticFringe, how terrible. I'm so sorry. It's not just the worrying about something bad happening, is it? It's the way you imagine all the details and then there are all these horrible images lodged in your head...

GoingPostal, I was 30 (nearly 31) when he died. Did you get people saying, 'You're young, you'll find someone else'? I know it's well meaning, but still...

OJ, I didn't meet you at the Friday meal before the WAY AGM in Oxford, did I?

Ok, I can hear crying so I'd better go.

Sleep well and thanks

Hi there - yes, I did and still do get people saying that I'm young so ... I have thought about trying to meet someone else, but right now just managing my life and my ds's life is plenty to be getting on with. Plus the opportunities to get out there are few and far between when you are a lone parent of a small child. Can now plan ahead a bit more but I imagine you are still at a stage of just putting one foot in front of the other - and that's fine. Just surviving is plenty hard enough.

I did and still do find that the better weather helps. THere is always an innate sadness that DH doesn't get to enjoy the spring and the sunshine - but taking time to look at what's happening in the garden, enjoying a bit more light during the day etc can be very theraputic.

i did lurk around the WAY bar the other night but it was empty!
i didn't go to oxford or the AGM this year thou i went last year.
i'm in a new relationship, well i say new been seeing each other 31 weeks now and been engaged for 25 weeks! i found it difficult to start with, after 17 years with someone it felt odd to be with someone else.

OJ - that is so lovely, congratulations! do you mind if I ask how you met your new man? Would love to meet somebody but no sniff of anything like that so far - I don't seem to be in the right places for a start!

i met him online, but he did his nurse training with one of my mates so have a link to his past as such, its hard to find the time and confidence to meet people out and about isn't it

Ars - how are you doing this week? Sorry for threah hijack above.

Thinking of you and hoping you are getting some of this nice weather.

No apology remotely necessary - I can't thank you enough for your messages (and congratulations OJ, too).

Some better moments this week, although I did manange to disgrace myself yesterday (got the chance to go out somewhere posh, drank two - yes two - double gins on the train, followed by more booze once I got there and spent the evening in floods of tears telling my poor BIL that I wished I was dead. What an idiot.)

I don't really understand the so-called 'stages of grief'. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression - all these seem to be happening in an endless cycle rather than me progressing through them. I felt incredible anger towards a very good friend the other day, who told me how hard she was finding not sleeping in the same room as her husband (he is doing the nights so she can get some sleep - if only!). I'm supposed to be seeing them on Saturday and I almost feel unable to cope with the visit.

I'm living two versions. This one, the unreal one, and the one I think about all the time. The one that should have been happening. I'm stuck in the wrong life.

Sorry for rambling and self-indulgent post...

Hello there Ars, good to hear from you.

Great that you've had some better moments, though I'm sorry to hear about your insensitive friend. Did you see her & and her husband on Saturday in the end? As for drunken breakdown, don't worry. doesn't do other people any harm to see just how hard it is to cope. Re wishing you were dead - yes that sounds familiar. I used to think that a lot. Didn't mean I was going to do anything about it, but i would have loved to have just gone to sleep and not woken up. But these days I don't think like that - I promise that it does get better and one day you won't feel quite so horrible and defeated.

I'm not sure I believe the stages of grief thing. At least not that you can go through them one by one and then leave them behind you, ultimately reaching the nirvana of "acceptance". I believe that you plough through it all bit by bit, randomly, backwards, forwards, sideways, stuck in a thick treacly sensation but one day you realise you've had 2 good days in a row instead of one good day on its own. Then perhaps a good week. Then most days are fine in fact, punctuated by bad days and worse days here and there, or sometimes a bad week.

You can't rush it, it just ... happens. And thinking "well I've done anger so why am I back at denial" isn't going to help. I still have moments of utter take-your-breath-away dawning realisation that he isn't coming back, can that be true??, and it's been over 3 years for me now!

Keep going as best you can. Don't worry if you slip back, you will keep on climbing even if you don't realise it at the time.

I have no idea if this helps... very long!

I don't by into the five stages either - can do all 5 in random order in an afternoon!

GoingPostal, it does help - you have no idea how much. Thank you.

My friend did come on Saturday and was lovely, thoughtful and said all the right things. I then felt awful for feeling cross before...

Have been putting my energies into decorating birthday cakes for DD1 and her cousin - a good way of avoiding circling thought syndrome. Up until 2/3am most nights this week, so haven't posted until today.

DD1 shared a party with her cousin, which was lovely and awful at the same time. All those two-parent families... Her little face lit up when she saw the cake and my heart just broke. How different she is almost nine months on. OH would have just wept with love for her.

Is it weird to feel angry for him? I feel very acutely that I want to comfort him for being dead and missing all this. Odd.

DadInsteadofMum - oh yes, those afternoons are draining!

hi Ars. My heart is breaking for you and for our situations - no-one else can realise just how horrible children's birthday parties can be really. I stopped going to all the 1st birthdays for my antenatal group friends' children, because of all the proud dads there - I just couldn't take it. I'm sure your DP would be incredibly proud of all of your DD - and of you and your baby too of course.

and yes I get being angry for your poor dh and wanting to tell him about what's happening and how sorry you are for him - the one person in the world who you need to get you through this. there is no getting away from just how bloody horrible and sad this all is, for all of you.

I saw your post on the other thread and you say your sister is in Clapham and you visit sometimes. That's near me - would be very happy to meet up for a coffee and a chat if you'd like next time you're over this way?

May I join this thread? You've all probably seen my posts on other threads on this board, but just wanted to say hi!