What would you do?

[Searchingforananswer2023]

I need to take ashes back to another country for burial. I do not get on with my family and want to minimise contact throughout. Mass will be said and ashes will be interred in the cemetery. Driving to the cemetery, interment and return to the village will take just over an hour.

I am wondering about the wake. Few family members will attend and I think friends/neighbours will not wait an hour for us to return. Due to remoteness of location only a handful would make the journey for burial. Would you go ahead with a wake? Should I pay for food etc if people are likely to leave? What is the etiquette for alcohol?

My personal wish is to go to mass attend the burial and leave but I will need to face the wake.

Thoughts please 🙏

Don’t go if you think it will upset you. They can organise there own wake if they want to.

*their

Whose ashes / which country from / to?
What relations with the people in the other place is the deceased?

I am sorry for your loss.

Then do that and dont arrange a wake.

Are you travelling alone or will you have someone you can trust to help you minimise family contact? Or is there someone local who will do that for you?

Grief with added family conflict will be stressful.

I assume that the family split is not a secret to the NDN (or family)?

Whats the culture?
I would have said if the people are not willing to attend the burial (once it is not invitation only) they are not close enough to worry about feeding.

If you want to visit and meet with people and avoid family I would make private arrangements directly with the individual. This is where there is an advantage of having someone you trust to take care of the "housekeeping" of making contact and arranging details.

If you dont want a wake make sure a local involved in the mass or even the mass celebrant is aware that you want as private a service as possible and that there will be no wake.

If your family want to organise something that is their choice and you dont have to attend or pay.

If you do want a wake you can speak to the nearest local venues which can provide a service or the funeral service will have a list if you are using one.

You dont have to have a wake diectly after the service you can arrange it for a night before the service or have an evening gathering a day or two later.

If you dont want to pay for alcohol you should look for a space which has no alcohol counter in the room or has roll down shutters over the bar. And alcohol can be available to purchase outside of the room eg hotel space or private lounge in a bar so people have the option to buy their own.

Basic food (sandwiches/finger food and hot tea/coffee&water ) chairs and tables and a space big or small enough to hold the expected numbers are all that are needed.

As there will be a "gap" a sitdown lunch/dinner could be scheduled for at least 1/2 hour after you are expected back to give you time to speak to people etc so tea and coffee can be provided for the 1.5h wait.

If you want people to wait at the venue its helpful as you (and the family) will be away for the hour that you organise someone to "play host". This would be getting the people into the correct room getting the staff to circulate the food to the tables.

And if your want to serve limited alcohol this person organises a round via the staff and after that they buy as they move around tables or after the 1 or 2 rounds people have to buy for themselves. Or bar is free for anyone to order for a fixed period or to a fixed cash amount (this can be expensive and staff have to ring drinks properly as aome venue claim they "overprovided" trying to bill extra).

A trick is to have staff keep a few tables free so that you have your own space to move into when you come in later and dont end up stuck on a table with some one you dont want next to you.

Sorry for your loss
(and remember do what is best for you in both short and long term).

It's my job, it's culturally expected and I am paying

Sorry too outing to be specific, close relatives in name but not in practice. The family only comes together for funerals

Thank you. I have a sibling and we are estranged. Their behaviour will steer the whole thing, total narcissist.

I think the mass will be well attended and then people will go home, leaving a handful at the wake. No one can host, its literally back to the village pub. The sibling craves wider family attention so will be there until close of venue.

I have an old friend in the locality who will support me. Not attending is not an option for me but I just want to minimise potential problems/conflict.

ÒP, you say that paying for the wake is “culturally expected” - so can you arrange for food and drink to be supplied by a local hostelry of some sort while you and a few others go to the cemetery, and then have further drinks and food with the burial party when you get back? That way, you’ve fulfilled your obligations without expecting people to be waiting around. If that doesn’t work, could you have the wake after the mass, and the cemetery and interment the next day, with just the few people who will be going? That way, you’ve had the wake with everybody and been there for it without anyone having to wait around. I went to a funeral and the wake was afterwards: the following day, just the immediate family went to the crematorium for the committal.

Searchingforananswer2023

If you are paying and there is likely to be a conflict have a fixed period of time which the area is set aside as the post burial food and drink.

If you are paying you are the host when it comes to making decisions about what happens and the pub owner and staff need to understand you will only pay for what is agreed in advance and for anything else they have to ask you before it happens.

Ask for something like adding table cloths which can be removed can indicate when the formal event ends. Then its just a part of the pub and you have no obligation to pay for the sibling to sit and drink all day.

If you can dont do a full meal hunger will create a natural break when people have to move off to eat at home or buy a meal

If possible have your friend organise the tables with the venue. What you want if possible is to have the sibling end up holding court in a corner or where-ever is not centeral so that you can move and speak with everybody you want to.

And you can always move to the front of the bar and just say it was overwhelming and you need a break.

And if you think that the sibling will kick off have a word with the pub owner firstly to see how that is managed and if need be put the local police on notice too.

Remember that its family they know who the sibling is so let them play their games and ignore them as best you can.

If it's at a pub then put a few sarnies on, people can buy their own drinks and you can pop off when you want.

I am so so sorry you are going through this. I have been through it with my Dad and my Sister In Law, recently. Do you HAVE to do the interment on the same day as the mass and the wake? We buried my parents ashes in a countryside location literally a days drive from their home, so the interment, ash burial and wake were on totally separate days. Maybe you could do the mass and wake and then take the ashes to be interned separately.

I have thought of this. We did a private cremation over here, no family, no drama - it was perfect BUT we have to have mass and the tradition is burial afterwards. Also if the proverbial hits the fan at the wake the interment will be hostile. My preference is mass and interment together. It is the wake that is problematic for me.

Interment will be completed in the cemetery as I am taking ashes over. I could do mass - wake and interment later in the afternoon and then slip away from that so I will have appeared at everything.

That's my current thinking

It's hard to advise you without knowing the circumstances. My thoughts are in this sort of situation the factors that affect what you do depend on
-who is the deceased, how close you were to them and how they died (in the sense of how the circumstances of death affected you personally as compared with others - caring for someone over months being an example)
-who else is affected by their death and how close they were to them
-the long term consequences of your choices and whether they will affect you or people who matter to you and whether you care or may feel guilty - whether that is because not being 'culturally compliant' or

So for example, if the deceased was a husband with no children who you cared for througha terminal illness, was basically estranged from his family who you didn't get on with and will not need any contact with again - I would say, do what you like because unless you think you will feel guilty (consequences) of not being culturally compliant, what you want is more important and is unlikely to affect your life because you won't have contact with them.

on the other hand if it is a DH with whom you have children or a DF and you have or might have their grandchildren, acting in a way that pisses off an entire extended family, might have wider consequences for your children that you may not want.

If you are in charge, you can do what you like and that maybe fine but it may not be if others are affected or may have long term consequences for you. If the deceased has wider family, chances are there will be people there who loved them and want to honour them and are hurting, even if they are people who you can't stand or hurt you and can't face.

Is there an option for someone else to organise the wake - what about the sibling you mention? Or what about having no wake and saying there will be a memorial service at some point in future that someone else (sibling?) will organise?

Probably easiest path is do what you suggest mass then interment and tell people the wake will be at the pub at time specified that allows you time to get back. Then arrange an area in the pub and some drinks but tell them not to start until x time when you are back. You'll probably find people will just go to the pub anyway to wait until their free drink starts.

The closer you are to the deceased and the more distant other people, the greater the weight of what you want to do carries IMO.