Another inheritance one about Executors

[Needafriend14]

Hi mumsnets

Has anyone been through this.

Myself and my brother are executors of my DM Will.In 2016 my mum gave me a large some of money as a gift.Needless to say he doesn't think the Will is fare and is refusing to complete probate documents to finalise this. Telling untruths to probate with stories that it was a loan. They are neutral and TBH I think they realise it is him who is lying. He even wrote 'I am determined to include this gift into DM estate'. Even saying they are wrong reasoning being it was given less than seven years ago.They have told him on numerous occasions it isn't included but he won't accept this.He even dismissed our claims officer and went to the probate manager of the company!! He's nuts but is also very intimidating

Everything has been declared and he still won't sign, claiming that I have been dishonest (which I haven't) He also thinks probate are the decision makers of this and is confusing them as his legal representatives. He is disclosing untrue stories about us having a conversation with mum about early inheritance basically claiming I'm a fraudster that I manipulated my DM.He has also mislead the other benefices stating I'm ignoring probate and have been dishonest which isn't true.Also other brutal behaviour.

Back story is he never saw mum only on occasions maybe once a year.He is very very well off and says that 'I should claim it was a loan to get off paying tax'. He is also bullying me with statements like 'what will other benefices say'
There is much more to this story but I can't be bothered because it would be too long.

Probate have finally had enough of this saying that if we don't sort it out they will 'wipe their hands off it' This is what I need advice on.Has anyone experienced this? Having their inheritance withheld. Please any advice on what to do next would be much appreciated. I work 12 hour shifts in a very emotional exhausting job and it is effecting my health and wellbeing. I am even feeling guilty that I accepted this gift even though it was DM idea. I was her carer we were very close 'stuck at the hip' I am still in shock and grieving. DM passed away in July 2023 she would be mortified if she knew this was going on. I am considering having bereavement therapy. I am trying to avoid using a professional at the moment as they will be very expensive 10K at least which I cannot afford.

You need legal advice, it's no good asking us lot. Someone needs to check all the paperwork, the sums involved, dates etc and then decide from an official, legal point of view. Perhaps you need to speak to a solicitor about this.

Would it not be fairer and ultimately save you money on legal costs, if you gifted 50% of whatever the original gift was to your brother then cracked on with probate?

I'd be pissed in his shoes.
This gift should be taken from your portion of the estate.

You could try using a mediation service? cost would be more like £500. Ultimately it's better not to fight and although your brother does seem to be unreasonable in your eyes, in his eyes you are being unreasonable and neither of you is going to magically change your minds. There will only be a solution if each of you accepts a solution that is less than what you feel you deserve, but you can get there either with or without destroying whatever family feeling you have left for each other and either with or without spending half the money in legal battles.

A friend of mine is a lawyer specialising in resolving cases where resolving bequests and Wills can't be settled amicably. He is very, very rich because it costs a LOT of his time to get a case resolved. Ultimately will your life be significantly longer or happier if you succeed in ensuring your brother doesn't get more of your mum's money than he deserves?

What do you mean by”large sum of money” and how will it affect your overall inheritance?

I would be inclined to pay him off and move on. Otherwise it will be eaten up in legal fees or whatever. It does not matter if he is well off. People lose their minds over this stuff. He may feel it was a sign of favouritism on behalf of your mother and he wants to rectify it even if he does not need the money.

Similar has happened in my family in terms of a feeling of unfairness.
Yes it was your mums choice to gift to you but you must be able to see why thinks it's unfair.
As others said you need proper legal advice but could you consider your proportion of the will minus the large amount gifted?

I had an advance on my inheritence for a building job, my siblings are all richer than I. I will offer for it to be taken from my share. My dad is organised so has probably left a note to that effect with his will, if he hasn't updated it with a codicil and I have told at least one of my siblings so I'm not hiding it. Given the costs of fighting this legally I'd suggest yours is taken from your share, the estate will pay for a solicitor, you may need one too and you'll quickly lose more than you hoped to gain and you will probably end up estranged from your brother too. And anyway how would it be fair for you to get more than him - how much was it? Large could be very different to different people, from a couple of grand to hundreds of thousands.

If it was within 7 years of your mum dying then it should be included as part of the estate but only the number of years remaining in the 7 would be taxed.

I can really see his point, my SIL has done something similar, we are not well off, my MIL was not well off, sadly also only made SIL executor so unless we rock the boat nothing we can do. She received a large sum 5 years ago towards a deposit on a house. SIL has refused to acknowledge that MIL said this would be made even in the will - it hasn't been.

You need legal advice to resolve, as someone else suggested mediation might be better but I would try to look at the bigger picture, how wealthy he is does not come into it.

Thanks all for your advice
Sunnyplain yes got that wrong 2018.
ACynicalDad if its taken from remaining estate I will end up owing them plus the tax.
The family are already destroyed never been close. I can't afford 50%.
Yes they are pissed off and I am upset about this.I think will have to take legal advice.Mum did have her favourites for many reasons I can't help that.She probably thought they didn't need anymore than what they have. I have tried to put myself in their shoes they have been left a good sum and have lot of assets already. My way of looking at is it was my mums wishes she was the one who encouraged me to accept it.All he thinks about is money.
Thanks again for your advice.

But all you're thinking about is money too. If this gift was made within 7 years of her death then it has to be declared. I very much doubt that the Probate office said they would ‘wipe their hands of it’.
I would advise that the pair of you consult a good probate solicitor who will know the legalities of the process. It will be money well spent.

Try not to get caught up in how much money your brother has or how often he visited your mother and just focus on the legalities.

It sounds as though you only think about the money as well! I suggest you come to a resolution before legal fees eat into most of the inheritance!

Soontobe60 its going through an excellent probate solicitor and this is what they have stated.Everything has been declared I have been totally transparent.

QuillBill They have looked at the legalities and have been told what probate have told them that the gift is not included in the Will.

The question is what happens if they do throw it out as such.I think I need to speak to a professional. I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone else a mediation is probably the best option.

If it was 2018 it is within the 7 years and therefore would need to be declared in the paperwork to HMRC and would come off the nil rate band first before the rest of the estate. The remaining nil rate band would apply to the rest of the estate.

Parky04 Of course I'm thinking about money unfortunately Im not in a position to not think about it !

What was the gift for?

purpleme12 on a larger house to facilitate my mum living in comfort with me and my family without having to pay for carers.

Unfortunately this is really common. If you are reading this and are writing a will, you should reference any gifts and state categorically that they are either to be "fair fair" via the estate or not part of the estate so should not be a consideration. Not mentioning it adds ambiguity.

We are 17 months into a horrible situation though I think the light is chinking at the end, house finally on the market

My mum and stepdad gifted me some money for a house. But they are taking that amount from the inheritance that I would get. So the others will get more inheritance than me. The others are aware of this too. So it's fair.

I can see why this person would be upset.

Don't know the solution

Perhaps ask your brother to work out what the cost of a carer would have been if you had not been able to do do for the period you were looking after your mum and he was nowhere to be seen.
You could then deduct that from the 'gift' amount and offer him half of that.

Kazplus2 thank you someone else mentioned this but I know what he will say to that and it won't be positive.

He can't see the bigger picture in this.It is a horrible situation and I am now kicking myself for accepting this gift.

I am now kicking myself for accepting this gift.
There definitely is some risk when accepting a gift like this from a parent.

It's very difficult for anyone to say without knowing all the background .
My brother had a lot of money from my
Parents to fund his dream home ( £200k + ) , my dad actually asked me if I minded and I didn't, but it will be reflected in our inheritance, whenever that time comes .
Having said that , it's not written down , it's a gentleman's agreement & I hope to god that my brother and I are never going to fall out about money , we are luckily very close and I trust him and I know neither of us would want to betray our parents wishes , but we could be in the position that you are in years to come .
If it was a gift then it was a gift, however i do think that maybe your mum should have made that clear to him whilst she was alive , it's unfortunate that they didn't have a great relationship in which she could have informed him .
I'm sorry for your loss

Stick to your guns @Needafriend14 and tell your brother if he'd ever bothered with your mother then this situation is unlikely to have arisen.
It is a salutary lesson to people though to make sure their reasoning for things like this are included in their wills then there can be no dispute.
You can have an executor removed if they do not administer an estate. Threaten him with that.