Ignoring the wishes of the deceased

[AhBiscuits]

My mum died exactly 7 years ago. It was sudden and she was only 67. When she was alive she did express a strong preference to be buried and not cremated. When she died my dad wanted her cremated. He believes once you're gone you're gone, funerals are for the living and we should do what feels right for us. We went along with it. He was devastated at the loss of his wife of 45 years and it did seem more important to support him.

Last week my dad died suddenly. We still don't know what happened and are awaiting a post mortem. He had arranged for his body to be donated to Cambridge university in the event of his death. We have contacted them and they don't want him because of the post mortem, they want bodies to study in their natural state. He would not have wanted any funeral or fuss. I think that we are going to have a cremation attended by family only. I don't think he would have wanted this but we do, we want the chance to say goodbye and think it will help with the grieving process.

Is it awful to go against the wishes of the dead? I think I feel a bit more comfortable with it given that my dad's approach when my mum died. It's on my mind today as it's the anniversary and we're making arrangements for my dad.

I think your Dad made it quite clear what he thought when he went with 'what's best for the family' and therefore you choosing what you all prefer now is fair. I'm so sorry for your loss, OP

I’m sorry for your loss.

I think you absolutely should arrange the funeral you want, particularly as your Dad’s wishes cannot be met anyway. Circumstances have not allowed it. Your Dad would understand.

Be kind to yourself too.

I am sorry to hear of the loss of your Father. xx

But, as his final wishes cannot be seen through, I think you are in the right to organise what you feel is best under the circumstances. You say he wouldn't have wanted a fuss so therefore don't make a fuss. Just have a nice quiet cremation with close family.

I’m sorry for your loss.

I don’t think you have a choice if Cambridge have refused. You’ve said he had no other wishes so just do what you see fit.

You’re ok to do it how you want it, honestly. Be easy with that. His plan just isn’t possible, you tried to arrange it but now you go with whatever you feel works for all of you - he didn’t want anything complicated so what you’re planning sounds very fitting.

Well you aren't able to exactly follow his wishes, so I think it's fine to do what he did and arrange the funeral/cremation as you prefer.

If he had had a strong religious or other belief which would prevent x,y or z from being acceptable to him, then I would try to honour that, however. We don't always get what we want in life, and sadly it isn't always possible in death either.

I’m sorry for the loss of your father.

You aren’t ignoring his wishes; his wishes aren’t possible. The post mortem meant it was impossible to donate his body as he intended.

You know your father, would he have wanted to have his remains thrust on a medical school that can’t use them for education? (even if that were possible) Of course not. It was an altruistic thought but it just didn’t pan out.

The next best thing is to do what he did - whatever is best for the family.

If it still makes you feel like you aren’t honouring his wishes (although I believe you are) you could always make a small donation from any inheritance so he is still supporting the university.

I think the two issues are separate - the funeral and the manner of dealing with a person's body. A person's wishes for their own body should be respected - in the case of your dad's, you aren't able to do this and in absence of a Plan B from him your plan to have him cremated seems reasonable.

Whether to hold a funeral I think is a matter for the living. My maternal grandparents didn't want funerals, so we didn't have them - and I wished we had. A chance to be together and celebrate their lives, that's a choice for the living.

Very sorry for your loss.

I think the main thing here is that you tried to honour his wishes. That can’t happen so I would definitely be happy with a cremation. He thought it was ok for your mum.

I hope your ok x

What a bloody horrible reply.

Sorry about your loss OP. Do what feels right x

Your Dad sounded like a very pragmatic man. I think he would have understood that, as his wishes could not be seen through, you had to make a judgement call about what you thought was best. He's right - funerals absolutely are for the living, not the dead. So do what you feel you need to honour his memory appropriately.

I am sorry for your loss @AhBiscuits.
I have a lot of respect for people who want their death to benefit someone else, so good for him in expressing a preference for research. It isn't obviously possible under the circumstances, so perhaps you could arrange for "donations instead of flowers" collection money to go to medical research in his name as an alternative?
The cremation instead of burial route he went down for your mum is probably because he was a practical sort of person.

Generally when bodies are left to medical science, they are still cremated with a short service, just many months later. Do t feel guilty, do, just like he did, what is right for you

No. It’s not awful at all. You tried to carry out your Dad's wish of donating his body, and since that turned out not to be possible you should do whatever is easiest for you or brings you most comfort. It will make no difference to your Dad; the rituals humans have developed for what happens after death are to help the living cope with their grief. I hope all goes well for you.

It sounds like your plans are the result of trying to work out a compromise between your father's attitudes and the needs of your family. It is a fair compromise, really it is.

I do think that in a lot of ways the wishes of the deceased have to be treated with a bit of 'negotiation', with family members trying to put themselves into the mindset of the deceased and work out what scope there is for give and take. I think most of us, even if we express wishes about what should happen after our death, have enough loving concern for the people around us that we would want them to feel able to exercise some discretion after we are gone.

My mother was a hoarder with many elaborate plans for the distribution of valueless stuff to far-flung people who wouldn't have wanted it. We had to tread a respectful line between her wishes and what was reasonable to expect of the still-living people. xxxx

Thanks everyone. We won't be able to arrange anything until after the post mortem but the undertaker wants to know how to proceed. The other option is they just arrange an unattended cremation. As it was so sudden, and currently unexplained, it doesn't feel real and I feel like we need something to give a bit of closure.

I feel more comfortable for our decision of a family only service.

Sorry for your loss. Loads of people will have an opinion but they don't matter and you can't please them all anyway, so just do what feels right /least worst for you and the immediate family.

My sister died suddenly last month. For various reasons, we had a direct (unattended) funeral and people are OUTRAGED. But it was the right thing for us so they can get stuffed.

But it seems that a lot of people do really expect 'things' to be done in a certain way!

Sorry for your loss. If you think about you are honouring the man and his beliefs by doing what's best for the living. I wouldn't feel guilt about that.

“Is it awful to go against the wishes of the dead?” Not in this case no.

Not to sound harsh but like your dad believed…. “once you're gone you're gone, funerals are for the living and we should do what feels right for us.”
You tried to do what he asked and were unable so now just do what the family agrees best

Maybe you could have an unattended cremation and then a private gathering of close family somewhere that was special to your Dad, a restaurant or pub or even a picnic?

It is hard to have to arrange things after the shock of a sudden death.

I would go for cremation. After research I believe bodies are cremated after they've been used anyway.

One thing you could consider is donating money to the medical organisation. There may be people who would like to contribute, perhaps friends of his, or family friends. After my friend's father died, the family donated a smallish (think hundreds not tens of thousands) sum of money to an educational organisation he was involved with for over 50 years. They were very grateful and came up with a lovely idea as to how the funds could be of use in helping the renovation of a part of one of their buildings - there's now a plaque detailing who he was, how long he was involved there, and mentions the bequest and what it paid for, so all who pass through can read all about him, which I think is lovely.