TW: Suicide - How do I discuss with DC

[RedxRobin]

I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me. DH's father killed himself around 20 years ago. It is obviously something that DH's mother & siblings have never really got over and it is not really discussed.

DH and I have two children - the eldest of which is 8. DCs know that DH's father is no longer alive but we have always been vague about the circumstances, just saying that he was sick. DS is now getting to an age where he is starting to ask more questions and we are not sure how we approach them. Do we tell him the truth? Wait a bit longer? Can anyone share any resources or personal experience that may help with tackling this?

To add context my DGM's father killed himself when she was 15 years old. I only found out many years later after her death. I have had my own MH struggles in the past and when trying to discuss it with my DF, he always said that there was no such thing as depression in our family (!), so I am mindful of not wanting to gloss over things but at the same time I am wary of discussing such a heavy topic with someone so young.

Eight years old is an excellent time to start discussing "heavy" topics, in my opinion and experience. You need to be laying the groundwork to try and ensure your son knows he can always come to you about absolutely anything, and that mental health issues are not a dirty secret that no one is allowed to talk about.

You can tell him about his grandfather, how sad it was that he didn't get the help he needed, and if this is true, he didn't reach out for help when he could have. Suicide is not shameful. It's very sad and very often preventable.

You can then ask him how he feels about it, what questions does he have. He may not have any and that's ok, too. Your son is asking questions because he probably senses that there is something he's not being told about his grandfather. Kids aren't daft, and lying to them when they are at the age of being able to ask questions isn't doing them any favours.

I think it's always best to honest when asked direct questions by your children. The chances of them being told by someone else down the line is high and wouldn't you prefer to be the one to talk to them about it in an age-appropriate way. Child Bereavement UK may have resources on how to talk to children about this. One thing I notice is you use the term "killed themselves" throughout. I think a gentler way to frame it is that he "died from suicide". Many people believe suicide to be the end result of a very serious illness that happens to be an illness of the emotions.

I'm kind of surprised that an 8 year old is asking question about how a grandparent they never met died, seems a bit unusual?

Is there quite an air of sadness around any mention of him?

He's always been quite a curious child. He tends to ask quite in depth questions about things generally (we jokingly call him Paxman!). We've never shied away from talking about DH's father in general, ie my DH tells funny stories about him from growing up and we have photos of him around the house as we don't want him to be hidden away like some sort of secret.

But DS is aware that DH's father died quite young (my DP are both still alive & are much older than DH's mother) so he is now starting to ask more specific questions, whereas when he was younger it was enough to say that DH's father had died as he had been sick.

OK, yes.
There is definitely advice online about how to talk to children about suicide, I'd check that out.

My DS is 4 so I haven't had to have this conversation with him yet. But I have watched my siblings navigate these conversation with my niece and nephews, who are a similar age.

Lost my DB to suicide 11 years ago.

First of all it's impossible for the kids not to ask questions about this- I speak from personal experience. My brother died shortly before my niece and nephew were born, so they never met him- but despite this they're still very aware of his life. There are countless photos in my parents house, and of course there's an 'air of sadness' (to quote PP) when his name is mentioned, despite us all doing our best to put on brave faces.

To take his photos down, or to hide bereavement (and not display 'an air of sadness') would be to model pushing away feelings- which arguably would also not be a healthy example of how to handle feelings.

I was present when the conversation was had with my niece- and it was very much led by her. It was just myself, my sister (her mum) and my niece. It wasn't at all pre planned- it just happened and was led by her.

She asked very proactively what he was like. We spoke about him honestly - that he was amazing, and would have loved her very much.

She asked how he died- we told her very gently that he was feeling very sad, and made a decision that he didn't want to be alive anymore. And that ultimately it's really important to know that in life if you ever feel sad, you should always talk to someone, because things can and will always get better with love and support. And likewise, if a friend ever feels sad, always ask them if they're ok.

But also be prepared for some difficult questions too, I was asked a couple of really difficult questions directly which I wasn't at all prepared for.

She asked me why I didn't call him that day to ask if he was ok. (Hard to hear!). I just said that I just didn't know that he was feeling so sad, but I wish that I had called him, and sometimes in life we do things that we can't take back. But then reinforced that it's really important that she just knows that we all love her very much, and that she can always talk to either of us (I meant her mum really, but of course me too!).

And I also told her some funny stories about him to make her laugh- suicide is such a big traumatic event that often it over powers the memory of someone's life. And we both felt it was really important that her imagination think of happy, funny stories when she imagines hun (she's curious, so of course she will), rather than the dark vision of suicide.

Sorry, that last paragraph should read "when she imagines him"

Not 'hun'

Sorry for long post but hope this helps! :-) it's not the easiest of conversations but I would definitely just let them drive it with any Qs they may have- but be prepared for tough ones too.

For what it's worth, I think it's great that you're having these conversations! Suicide and depression is stigmatised- and that's half of the problem. My DB confided in me a lot, but I know he swallowed a lot of his thoughts- and I know if he had felt more able and safe to talk to others, he would still be here today, and he definitely would have felt less alone.

I apologise I didn't mean to imply that there should be an aim to cover up the circumstances (and effects) of a suicide.

Although a child asking about a parent's death is surely more common than asking about a grandparent's death, and not only because they knew the parent?

My dad committed suicide, @RedxRobin- and lots of friends told me lots of comforting things.
But I finally came to the conclusion that my dad, while it’s excruciatingly painful for those of us he left behind, did what he wanted to do.
And although I miss him desperately, I take comfort in knowing that he made the choice himself. It wasn’t cancer or a brain tumour or any number of horrific things that could have taken him - he died the way he wanted to.
And I can either be comforted by that or be miserable for the rest of my life.
I choose the former. Because what choice do I have? My dad didn’t really give me a choice, and your children’s grandfather didn’t give them a choice - so let them have the gift of understanding that their granddad did what he wanted to do. And that’s okay - for him.
But tell them that suicide leaves behind broken-hearted children and wives who always wonder what it was that they did wrong… and will never truly know the answer, because daddy or mom or sister or brother or grandad isn’t here to tell them.
And that’s the really sad part. Well, I guess the really sad part is we’ll never get the chance to tell them how much we truly love them ever again. We just worry and fret that they knew how much we loved them.
Granddad isn’t here to see how amazing your kids are - and that’s a shame. And those are the consequences of suicide. You miss so many wonderful people and memories and experiences. Because life ends when you take your own life. Everything stops. And see what he missed? Your glorious, darling, beautiful, bright children. Consequences. I think, though, that we suffer the consequences far more than those who take their own lives - don’t you? We have to live with the consequences. We have to carry on.
And make sure to tell your children that suicide isn’t a normal thing and they can always always always come talk to you about absolutely anything ever. Remind them all the time that they can always come talk to you. In fact, ask them all the time how they’re doing.
Maybe tell your kids all the good things about their grandfather. You know, the arguments and the petty fights just don’t matter to me any more - they aren’t what I remember about my dad. I remember the smiles and the laughter and all the good things.
I hope that whatever you decide to say to your kids that it goes well. Not the easiest conversation but a good one to have.
I wish you the best.
My apologies for talking so much.

I really respect how you have come to terms with your father's suicide @DreamTheMoors and the lovely advice you have given from your own experience. I would gently suggest that "commit" is not the best word to use as it suggests a crime which, thankfully, suicide isn't any longer.

@Someoneonlyyouknow

My dad shot himself in the head with a gun.
Are you seriously criticizing me over a word?
I wish I could describe how violent and terrible and awful and extreme that was, but I can’t.
It would horrify you.
Have you any idea how devastating suicide is and the damage it does to a family - forever?
And you’re “gently” criticizing me over a word because you think it isn’t appropriate any more?
Do you have any idea how difficult it was for me to write that message to @RedxRobin and to think back to my own dad’s death and that long path to serenity acceptance that my dad’s death was not my fault?
And you’re correcting me over a word?

It’s just a word. I’d gently suggest that you read someone’s comment detailing their traumatic experience and reliving their shock and loss, that perhaps you should stop and think twice before you correct them over a word that’s been used for decades.
Gently,
It’s my father and I will use whatever descriptive words I feel appropriate.
Thank you, and you have a lovely rest of your week.

@DreamTheMoors

I am truly sorry for your loss and pain and I respect your right to use the words you choose. I do know how devastating suicide is and the damage it does to a family - forever. That's why I, personally, don't use it.

@Someoneonlyyouknow

Then you should stop hounding me, seriously.

I haven't known how to talk to ds about his dad's suicide. I've tried my best.

I would be a bit careful about implying that if x had done y then the person wouldn't feel sad any more or wouldn't have died. Ds already feels guilt, not about dh's death itself, but about earlier times when he was ill and ds didn't know how to help him (nobody did and ds was a child). I certainly feel searing guilt about dh's death at times but also so much guilt that ds was ever in a situation of not knowing what to do or how to tell me about it. I have tried to say the truth as I see it, which is that dh was so ill he couldn't live any more, that he never meant to hurt us but he couldn't stay alive.

I'd read DreamThe Moors post very carefully as it's full of good things. And I think just be honest that it's really hard to talk about and you struggle to find the right words.

Hi janglybeads,

Just wanted to let you know that my children have asked about their "missing" grandparent from a very young age- about 4 and so I'm astounded you're surprised about a child naturally wanting to know more detsils at age 8. My children noticed they have a nanna and grandad on one side and nanny on the other and saw a photo of their deceased grandad at their nan's house.

Over the years they've asked for more details about how their grandad died (heart attack) and how old my husband was when his dad died. I want our children to be able to ask questions and for us to honestly be able to answer them so that they can come to us with problems. It also gave us the opportunity to reassure them that we were unlikely to have the same issues. We discussed eating healthily, regular medical checks, exercise etc. They have gradually asked more about him, but not excessively and we have shown family videos that include him and talked about smiles being similar etc.

I think death of a grandparent they didn't know is a good opportunity for them to openly discuss something that will touch their lives at some point, in a calm and non-reactive manner. In the case of op, a great entry into openess and discussing mental health, supporting each other etc.

I also noticed a missing grandparent as far back as I remember and never asked my parents about it because I didn't want to upset them. I used to think about all the awful things that could have caused it and kept this inside, worrying my mum was at risk too. I remember at one point telling a friend i thought my Grandad died as a hostage in Iraq. I guess I got this from watching the news and was trying to make sense of things. I think they'd mentioned the second world war at some point and I'd got very confused.

I'm not judging my parents for not tackling this with us, things were different in the 80s and people seemed to think children didn't notice these things. They did, but there was less openess. So I think it's great these children are asking questions snd it's important to be able to death, which is sn important part of life, calmly and without creating fear.

I haven't seen my father since I was a child, there's no photos, no mention of him anywhere. My DC asked where he was from around the age of 4, they have 2 grandparents on Stbxh side, they have two parents, I think it's quite a natural thing to ask. By the time they were 8 we'd had multiple discussions, questions evolved, they want to know why, how, when, it's very natural for little kids to want to know.

Thanks for sharing your family experiences, PPs. Good to hear about positive loving and honest conversations about illness and loss.

Although I didn't realise it when I posted, I guess I was thinking of my children, who grew up without either of their paternal grandparents, and have never asked much about them at all.

Perhaps because my (now ex) DH is quite a bit older than me and his parents had been dead for quite a while, plus we didn't have photos of them on display. I never knew them either.

My mum died when they were 4 and 6 so we obviously talked about that however.

Food for thought.

How did you coped ? I don't want to open old wounds, but my DH has been on a deep depression for four months and even though we have tried everything there has been no improvement. I am so afraid for my kids and myself.

@mumofdos that's very frightening, I'm so sorry. Is he having medical support? Do you have any support - your GP for example? What do the kids schools say?

He is having support and I have therapy. Kids school are aware in case behavior is off but nothing more

This has happened to a few people around us & my just turned 7 year old DD has asked ‘how did x’s Dad die, what made him die” so up to now I’ve just said his mind was poorly etc. I will take tips from the replies.

I think the actual specific method is another layer of trauma that is another difficulty to convey if you are trying to be sensitive to a young child and you don’t want to leave them with graphic images or imagination.

I don’t know a way around this.