Inquest into friend's death

[spababe]

Hello, my friend took her own life about 18 months ago. I found it very hard to deal with particularly as I had only seen her the previous day. We were not close friends but our kids were and so we were in and out of each other's houses for the last 15 years. My grief was stronger than I would have anticipated and my son had to have counselling.
The inquest is next week and family can 'attend' on Zoom. Is there anywhere inquests are reported? I need peace of mind over what happened. I need to know Whys. However I don't want to intrude on the family or be put in an awkward position.

@TheCanyon

Does England not report fatal accidents and sudden deaths on their court pages?

I have a copy of my ex's and it's listed on the Scottish sheriff courts page, I read it every year or so now, could probably almost recite it, but It's very intrusive reading for his friends and family and it really doesn't answer the why?

No, inquests are not routinely reported, or fatal accidents. I cover inquests as part of my job (journalist) and the secrecy around inquests, which are supposed to be public, is incredibly frustrating.

Gosh there are some harsh replies here. This is the Bereavement section, not AIBU. I understand you wanting to know why, OP, it's a natural response. I'm sorry I don't know anything about inquests, but wish you well.

Only interested person's ie: family can request a copy of the recording. It's a public event so I would advise contacting the coroner's office yourself to ask details of you want to go. I would also ask the family before you do. They might welcome your presence or they might not want you there. Get their opinion before you make a decision.

You should see a counsellor, too, because the inquest isn't there to give people 'whys'.

I think there are a lot of very insensitive replies on here. Just because someone was a friend rather than family, the weight that a suicide leaves behind on everyone is huge. And inquests to a certain extent are exactly about why.

And, no, there probably won't be an absolute reason. But quite often there is a kind of lip service reason - like upset about a relationship, or a death in the family, or the great big generic 'mental illness'. And that can help. It isn't just plain nosiness. Having experienced the after effects of another's suicide, I really can totally sympathise with wanting a little of explanation or discussion. It is a haunting and shocking experience.

@LookingForSalt

Thank you, I don’t know what to say! You seem so very insightful, kind, and lovely, and I appreciate your posts a lot. Thank you 🙏 And you’re very right- it’s like on one hand from a logic view, the reasons are clear. But from a child view- not so much at all. It has damaged my life in ways that I cannot put into words. Confusion, guilt, feeling not even good enough for a parent, seeing how good a person and mother she was when she was well versus what she did and had us see as children (incredible violence from her husband) and so on. It’s very hard to balance the scales and very traumatic to say the least even 20 years on. And you would think that given she’s been dead longer than I knew her alive, that it would get easier. But it doesn’t. You’re left with so much more because of the length of time. I still want my mum. I still cry out for a mummy. It’s awful. This is why I say that the emotional radioactive blast so to speak of suicide is absolutely HUGE so those saying this and that to the op that it isn’t her business etc have no idea of the effects. Either that or they have somehow disassociated from their own experience- which is very easy to do.

FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue , People aren't being 'harsh', they are letting the OP know that the inquest won't be able to tell her "why".

People - who have experienced Inquests - do know that, and therefore are answering.
Absolutely, when someone takes their life, we are all left with questions.... Why?...Could I have done anything differently?....Should I have known ? .... etc. The advice to seek out some counselling, is sensible.
The answer that the Inquest won't provide any of those answers is also true. It won't.

LadyinParis - very sorry for your losses.

Or why she was so happy in the days leading up to it- having quit alcohol for a long time prior. Etc. Had your DM relapsed on the alcohol prior to her death as that can often make people suicidal.

@BackforGood

FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue , People aren't being 'harsh', they are letting the OP know that the inquest won't be able to tell her "why". People - who have experienced Inquests - do know that, and therefore are answering. Absolutely, when someone takes their life, we are all left with questions.... Why?...Could I have done anything differently?....Should I have known ? .... etc. The advice to seek out some counselling, is sensible. The answer that the Inquest won't provide any of those answers is also true. It won't.

I wasn't talking about the posts explaining about inquests, I was talking about responses such as You're just being nosy. or an abrupt Why do you need to know? when the OP explains that her grief has been stronger than she would have anticipated and her son needed counselling.

Thank you to those who have made supportive comments and those who have explained the workings of an inquest.
When I say I was not close, I mean there were friends closer than me. We knew each other for 15 years and our children were very close so we saw a lot of each other and knew each other.
I am not being nosy. I am someone who saw her the day before and I want to know why she didn't ask me for help. I want to know why she left those children. Why she was so unhappy and thought this was the solution. I was hoping there was some kind of note left that might explain somewhat but I see now from what people have said that this might not bring closure.
Thank you for the kind replies and I'm so sorry for others who have lost someone in this way.

I really don't understand what the OP feels she should know or find out here. Is it more the how you want to know? The why is surely mental illness. Well people don't commit suicide. Why do you need details? If it's upset you to this level already surely knowing more details will be triggering for you? I think you should focus on the support and friendship you can give the family and not be trying to get involved in what for most families is a very private matter. They may well not want people outside the close family and friends to know at all. If they do, they will tell you.

Just saw your most recent post. OP I don't think it's anyway near as simple as you could have helped that day before if only she'd asked. And there isn't necessarily a 'reason' for someone's unwellness. Unhappiness is not really what it is and is very misleading. People can be very sick, it's not the absence of happiness.

@typicalvalues interesting question and we will never know; however I would say no based on what I know of that day. She had been sober and well and had left that bastard she was with, and seemed happy. The day she killed herself, she did it in the car (I won’t go into obvious details as it’s triggering and not necessary- it’s clear what happened with this and my previous post) she had written a letter saying she had been sober for 71/72 days- I’m not sure exactly now since it’s been so long. That this was the first drink in that time, for “Dutch courage” to quote. She had planned it all as if it were a holiday, bought the hosepipe, sought childcare, all days prior. Wrote the letter and from what we know she got into the car, turned it on, had a drink for her nerves, and just fell asleep. That was that. In fact, she even wrote in her letter, for the family not to tell us kids what she had done and to somehow explain it away as some car accident or some such. The police sought all evidence prior to my family being able to read it and see this request so by the time they got the letter we had already been told what had truly happened, I wonder what my family would have told us otherwise? Anyway so that’s my belief but you could be 100 percent correct and her saying it was the first drink in a long time could have been a last lie to preserve some kind of dignity as she was dying. I guess only my mum knows and that @LookingForSalt was right- that she was very mentally unwell. It just leaves so much. Was it my fault was I a bad child? Why leave me? Etc. Those things can’t be answered sadly. This is what I mean when I say to the op- @spababe - sometimes we can have many answers like my mum and in detail and still it doesn’t make sense/ makes way for more questions. Or have little by way of detail in the case of my best friend of many years- yet still leave many questions. And that no matter how much or how little information you have, and I hope you get the information you need, it won’t aid in the grief process really because one way or another you will always question something. I was that child who was left just like your friend op. My mum didn’t ask for help either- the opposite in fact. I had never seen her so happy, so refreshed, so .... like a weight was off. She had made her decision long before. So the only thing left for her to do was to execute her plan as best she could and she did. It isn’t your fault. You couldn’t have done anything. Sadly- I still blame 13 year old me. Was I that bad? Did I do something that just pushed her over the edge? What did I do wrong? It’s very very very normal in these circumstances to self blame. I still do 20 years later even though I logically know that it was nothing to do with me at all. Please seek counselling because I didn’t and that is why I still have these questions and guilt and all kinds of horrific thoughts 20 years later. Just because your friend wasn’t the best friend you both had in the world, or not family, does not in any way at all, invalidate your grief. I can’t emphasise this enough. Like I said suicide is like a radioactive bomb- the shock wave of emotional radiation goes far and wide regardless if she was your child, or a neighbour you just waved to every day for 15 years. It makes us all look at our own loved ones differently and fearfully, it makes us question so many things that it’s hard to put into words. No matter how close- your pain is very real and very valid and you need to do whatever you need to, to deal with it. Whether that be by knowing as much as possible, or accepting that even knowing won’t really tell you why, and getting counselling. For what it’s worth it sounds to me like she was in a similar mind frame to my mum- if she was visiting friends and appeared normal the day before. In which case it’s even more the case that you couldn’t have stopped it. It’s hard to accept that someone would take such a permanent route, without appearing to be in need of help. But it happens. My mum did it perfectly. There is no blame or what ifs on you. Be kind to yourself

@WishingHopingThinkingPraying

Just saw your most recent post. OP I don't think it's anyway near as simple as you could have helped that day before if only she'd asked. And there isn't necessarily a 'reason' for someone's unwellness. Unhappiness is not really what it is and is very misleading. People can be very sick, it's not the absence of happiness.

This post speaks a lot of sense and just to add; a big problem when this happens is that people cannot fathom or accept (me included) that some people are simply so unwell that they take the nuclear option as I call it. It’s unfathomable for most people to even consider that this option is “the” option, and that creates so so soooo much space in the “left behind” people’s minds to create self blame, reasons of their own, and the sense that they could have “rescued” that person if they had only known. It’s a misleading thought path because if a person sees that option as the only one left open to them- they don’t want to be rescued and if they are stopped or found somehow (unlikely as they plan it in advance very well) they will just try another time. It’s the normal human “rescue” fallacy that doesn’t apply to someone who really truly 100 percent wants to die. It’s very sad and scary and incredibly difficult to process. It’s also a normal part of the process. This is why you need counselling to work through it and get past the self blame “if I had only” thinking process. I didn’t do this. Well I was a child, but I didn’t do it. And it has left me wounded and half a person in many ways. Of course it’s a different situation but the logic still applies

Was it my fault was I a bad child? Why leave me?

Unequivocally no. More likely that she genuinely did feel like you deserved better.

I've sent you a pm LadyinParis. It's a bit personal to put on here.

But on this bit of your latest post Sadly- I still blame 13 year old me. Was I that bad? Did I do something that just pushed her over the edge? What did I do wrong? My answer would be that she loved you so much that she couldn't cope with failing.

@typicalvalues thank you I know logically that that is correct- what we saw as children due to my stepdads abuse and her drinking to numb the pain, can only be described as horrific. Beyond comprehension. I have no doubt logically that she did truly think we were better without her. You’re very correct and I appreciate your kind response. Sadly the heart and the mind separate in a way- the mind says I know that it’s nothing to do with me beyond a last desperate attempt to stop the pain for us. But the heart (rather the disordered thinking) tells me I must have been awful for the one person in the world meant to love me more than anyone else, to leave me forever. And the subsequent family abuse after and her leaving me in the hands of family who think it’s ok to tell a 13 year old child that “that child killed her mother” “that child was responsible for her mother’s death” “you killed your mother” etc, when she was supposed to be there, supposed to protect me. Her leaving didn’t help me, it nearly killed me. But- as you said- she truly thought she was protecting me. It created a very real divide in my head. A chasm I can’t fill because it never makes sense. A void of unanswerable questions. So op- all the knowledge in the world isn’t necessarily helpful trust me. But try to work through it with a professional so that you can get past this god awful stage I have been stuck in for 20 years. Wishing you all the best

My answer would be that she loved you so much that she couldn't cope with failing.

What a beautiful way to put it, thank you! I can see her thinking in that way. Really she was the most amazing mother (oddly as that may sound!) in some ways. When she was well and he wasn’t there, she was fun, beautiful, open, taught me many things that I still believe in today. She helped mould my personality to be a kind person who doesn’t judge others, who is genuine, and loving, open and honest. She also damaged me unintentionally of course. It’s all very confusing really! Talking on here has helped me kind of pinpoint the cause of some of my issues actually. Where they stem from etc. I appreciate that so so much.

Op I am sorry I derailed your thread a little. I am very thankful for the very kind posters however. I wish you the best in this hard time op, I hope you have support? Friends and family?

Hi LadyinParis, I accidentally sent my PM to someone else who has kindly drawn my attention to it, so I think I've sent that through to you now.

It is heartbreaking that you lost your mother and were subjected to such abuse. All of it was wrong. I can guarantee you that your DM probably now regrets her decision and is looking down on you and watching you day and night. I suspect that she felt that she literally had no other choice. I think sometimes you can love TOO MUCH, and feel absolutely inadequate. If she didn't care about you all, she would have flitted off into the sunset, abandoning you.

I've a lot of experience with similar sort of things if you ever want to talk things through or just bounce ideas or thoughts off me.

spababe
I have no personal experience of anyone close to me committing suicide.
And I have no personal knowledge of, nor have I had any dealings with, this voluntary organisation - "Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide", or SOBS for short.
They have a website and a helpline, just Google them.
They may be able to help with your, (in my view), perfectly understandable distress x

I have attended inquests of people who have died by suicide in my professional capacity and I find them guy wrenchingly awful and would agree that an inquest is not likely to provide closure or answers to the ultimately unanswerable question of why. It will be more stuff like was it definitely suicide? What was the method? and possibly could services have done anything to prevent the death? (never could friends or family have done anything. That obviously would not be asked or expected in any way)

I think it would be a bad idea for OP to attend and certainly not without explicit permission of the immediate family even if it is technically allowed.

Some of the detail that was required to be recounted eg of PM findings or first responder statements has stayed with me overlaid with witnessing the grief of the family hearing it. I see more death and trauma in my job than most people and I am generally used to it and not usually affected by it at least on the surface but inquests are a special kind of horrible for me at least and in no way would I ever voluntarily submit myself to attending one.

They are quite formal, cold and technical and there is generally not a great deal of discussion for the sake of the family or if there is any discussion/ dispute that in itself is absolutely horrible.

A funeral is the place for closure and balance but inquests I have experienced have just been about unresolved grief and pain and horribleness I'm afraid.

Maybe there are better ones but I can't imagine it. It is a whole different kind of grief to be bereaved by suicide and I sincerely hope that the families are eventually able to recover.

Recently I went to a talk about it and there is strong data to suggest a hugely increased risk of suicide in those close to a person who has died by suicide even if not a blood relation eg a hugely increased risk in spouses. I don't find that hard to believe in the slightest.

@LadyInParis my sister died by suicide leaving my 2 DNs. This that a PP said us so so true:
My answer would be that she loved you so much that she couldn't cope with failing
I know how much my DSis loved her children. Fiercely, completely. Without a doubt she thought, on some strange level, she was doing it for them, for all of us family that she livted so much.

OP - perhaps because I feel like your friend could be my sister, I feel sensitive to your questioning of her motives. You really need to work through this yourself, with a counseller. I am very sorry for your loss. It is a devastating way to be bereaved.

OP, the only bereavement that I have had which affected me greatly was a male friend of the family who we knew through a shared sport - his children and me and my siblings both participated and my parents and their parents got on really well. He was like a father to me. My parents were extremely strict with me and he would persuade them to let me go to discos and such. We had long philosophical conversations. He was killed in a car accident on a motorway having been dropped off near to his home after his Christmas golf do where the last his wife heard from him was that he had won the Christmas hamper. Nobody knows how he ended up on the motorway. He was apparently quite drunk. The loss I felt was huge and inexplicable as he was no relation. I felt like I couldn't express my grief as I wasn't entitled to grieve. But I still feel the loss today. I remember asking a friend of mine to come with me to the funeral but she had just started a new job and couldn't take a day off work - I haven't spoken to her since. Grief is awful.

I would ask the family, could you attend if it wouldn't upset them. They may also be questioning the Why and being able to share it with someone might help them. But be prepared that they may want to keep things private.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity what a wonderful, and very insightful post. Just wonderful. I am sorry you see that often.

@typicalvalues crikey! I’m sorry that happened, I got your lovely message and have replied - thank you so much for your kindness

@Griefmonster

@LadyInParis my sister died by suicide leaving my 2 DNs. This that a PP said us so so true:
My answer would be that she loved you so much that she couldn't cope with failing
I know how much my DSis loved her children. Fiercely, completely. Without a doubt she thought, on some strange level, she was doing it for them, for all of us family that she livted so much.

Thank you both so much for this line of thought. I never thought of it like that because I don’t have children nor have I spoken to someone who has gone through what you have, thus having unique insight to the love for the children left behind. I really don’t know what to say! Except thank you. More than you ever know. Thank you for that both of you @typicalvalues