Need objective advice - avoidsnce

[Fathhopeandcharity]

I’m meeting up with a friend today (for a socially distanced walk) who I haven’t seen for years. I can’t tell whether I’m over sensitive or if she’s insensitive - in truth it might be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other but I’ve lost all objectivity and I need advice on how to steer the conversation away from me having to hear all about her charmed life when I’m a widow living in lockdown with a miserable existence! So for background my dad died in 2000 of cancer, my mum died in 2001 of a heart attack, my husband was killed in a car accident in 2003 at the age of 44 when our daughter was 11. My brother died in 2008 of a heart attack. My sister died last year of cancer tho my friend doesn’t know that yet as I haven’t seen her for about 4 years. All in all considering everything we’ve been through my daughter and I are ok. My daughter is in a long term relationship with her partner who she lives with and is relatively happy though she suffers from anxiety and is on Sertraline which she can’t get off. I have just been diagnosed with repressed anxiety and am waiting to get counselling for ocd behaviour and hoarding. Apart from that I hold down a part-time job and am working from home atm. I had a 6 year relationship and though we broke up over a year ago we are amicable and still message each other occasionally. So tho I have issues I think considering everything I’ve been through I’m hanging in there! My main bug bear with this friend is she has 3 children. She knows that before my husband died we had started looking into ivf as I had endometriosis and I was having problems conceiving. I desperately wanted more children so when my husband died I was aged 41 and my chance of having any more children died with him. I had very little support when my daughter was growing up as I had no family living nearby. My husband’s family live a long distance away and we’d relocated before our daughter was born for my husband’s job so I had few close friends - only women I knew whose children were friends with my daughter which is how I know the friend I’m meeting up with today. Our daughters were best friends through primary school but drifted apart at secondary school. My daughter missed a lot of school in her last year of A levels due to suffering from anxiety but she went on to get a first in her degree and I’m very proud of her and we have a very close relationship. But she lives a two hour drive away and I don’t get to see her as much as I like. I spend most of my time alone. I have three or four close friends but I don’t meet up with them more than about three or four times a year even before lockdown. After my husband died if I met up with a friend but came away feeling worse than before I would avoid meeting up with them again. This is how I lost touch with this particular friend I’m seeing today. Once when I was chatting to her outside the supermarket briefly I said something about having trouble with my daughter who was about 13 at the time and she said to me times that by three - ie how much more difficult her life is because she has 3 children despite having a loving and supportive husband and a close family support network. I’ve had little to do with her over the years but I recently asked a friend about doing a local walk and she said x was asking me about that walk why don’t you ask her if she wants to do it with you. I do want to get out of the house and get more exercise so against my better judgement I contacted her which is why we’re meeting up this afternoon. When I contacted her by text about meeting up she then sent me photos on WhatsApp of all three of her children, a family photo of her and her husband and their children, and a photo of her elderly mother. I have met her mum and like her very much and my friend knew and liked my mum. But whilst I’m happy to hear that her mum is well did it not occur to my friend that I might not want to see a photo of her mum given that I’ve not seen my mum for 19 years and that sending me her happy family photos might be a bit insensitive especially when we’re in lockdown and I live on my own. I know when we meet up she’s going to be full of what all her children are doing etc etc. I really don’t want to hear it. But I would like to talk to her about my daughter’s anxiety and my break up with my ex of 6 years. We didn’t live together but saw each other virtually every weekend for 6 years and she had met him once when we bumped into each other at a local event. Am I being unreasonable to want to talk about my own issues but not want to hear about her charmed life? Do I tell her straight that because I only have one child and no husband or parents that I find it difficult to listen to her telling me about her family life? I know people are more aware about mental health issues at the moment because of lockdown but am I expecting too much to want her to be sensitive to my situation? Sorry to have written so much and thank you to anyone who has read all of this. I would really appreciate other people’s perspective on how I should cope with the conversations when we meet up. Thank you.

Sorry - title should say avoidance. I realise I have avoided putting myself in certain situations over the years as self protection. I’m weighing up the pros and cons of getting out of the house today to get some exercise and fresh air and doing this particular walk which I’m keen to do against putting myself in a situation that I’ve avoided for years of spending time with this person.

I'm sorry you've had such a tough time and lost so many people.

But I'm afraid you can't expect her to listen to your troubles and say nothing about her own life, family or children. That's not how friendships work.

It sounds like a counsellor would be more appropriate if you need someone to talk to but don't want to reciprocate and hear about them? It sounds like you're still deeply troubled by losses that happened a long time ago, your parents for example, and haven't processed this.

@Calcifer12 Thank you for taking the time to read my long post. I have processed my parents’ deaths but being sent a photo of her mother out of the blue when I wasn’t expecting it was very hurtful. Especially as her mother looks quite similar to my mother - same colour hair and similar smile. I have friendships with others who are married and listen to them talk about their families but I have a problem with this particular person because I think she is particularly insensitive - like her comment about times by three and her sending me a photo of her and her husband and three children when she knows I am living on my own throughout lockdown and only have one child when she knows we wanted more. Does anyone else think she is insensitive or is it just me?

Honestly (and hopefully said gently) I think it's you. It sounds as though you associate this friend in particular with difficult memories rather than it being anything she has done.

Perhaps you'd be better off meeting up with someone where you didn't have that background.

It sounds, understandably, like she has a life you wanted, and this is making you annoyed at everything she does.

It really doesn't sound like she is being particularly insensitive, but I do think, for your own sake, that you should probably let this friendship go

I’m so sorry for your losses - that is all unimaginably hard. Well done for raising your DD and keeping going.

Am I being unreasonable to want to talk about my own issues but not want to hear about her charmed life? Do I tell her straight that because I only have one child and no husband or parents that I find it difficult to listen to her telling me about her family life? I know people are more aware about mental health issues at the moment because of lockdown but am I expecting too much to want her to be sensitive to my situation?

I think you are, a little bit - it’s understandable you feel this way but I don’t think it’s a reasonable expectation of this particular friend.

She obviously doesn’t feel comfortable offering the kind of support you want, and so shared what she feels is appropriate. After six years of not being in contact, you have to expect you’re back a bit more on an acquaintances level not deep personal issues sharing level.

I don’t think you can expect people to avoid sharing their lives with you. It may be a bit clumsy to say “times that by 3” but in the moment she was just trying to sympathise with you, not realising it was upsetting because of your fertility issues. Same with sharing a photo of her mum - if you like her mum, and haven’t see her for a long time, it’s just a friendly-ish gesture to try to connect.

I really doubt it’s malicious.

Some people cannot offer the sort of friendship you want/need in some ways or at some times. So then you have to choose if you’re OK with what they can offer. You can never force someone into being who you want them to be, you have to accept them as they are - and sometimes that means not being with them if it’s too difficult.

Thanks for your comments. I’m only meeting up with her because we both want to do this particular walk. If it wasn’t for that I wouldn’t have got in touch with her as I had decided a long time ago to check out of the friendship. I think you’re right that it’s more me than her but at the same time I wish she hadn’t sent me the photos. I hadn’t sent her any photos first - they were totally out of the blue. If you had a message from a friend you hadn’t heard from in a long time who you knew had fallen on hard times and was living in a rented flat would you send her photos of your six bedroom house?

@nosquirrels The times by 3 comment wasn’t her sympathising with me it was her saying you have it easy with only 1 child and I have it so difficult with 3. Even though she has a supportive husband and close family network. And I don’t for a moment think she means it maliciously but I don’t think it enters into her head that I might be a bit fragile because of everything I’ve gone through.

I’m only meeting up with her because we both want to do this particular walk. If it wasn’t for that I wouldn’t have got in touch with her as I had decided a long time ago to check out of the friendship

I think if you felt this way about the friendship (which is fine to feel) then really you shouldn’t have contacted her at all, walk or no. Because you have opened yourself up to resuming a relationship that you find draining.

I don’t think she considered how you’d feel about the photos. That’s a bit insensitive, perhaps- but she’s not someone you’re close to, she doesn’t have your feelings as a close friend about lockdown and how you’ve been finding it at the top of her mind. She doesn’t really have to either, you can’t expect that of her.

Hopefully you’ll enjoy the walk together anyway.

[quote Fathhopeandcharity]@nosquirrels The times by 3 comment wasn’t her sympathising with me it was her saying you have it easy with only 1 child and I have it so difficult with 3. Even though she has a supportive husband and close family network. And I don’t for a moment think she means it maliciously but I don’t think it enters into her head that I might be a bit fragile because of everything I’ve gone through.[/quote]
No, I think you have taken it to mean that she was saying her life is much harder, but she probably meant it in a sympathetic, shared experience sort of way “Yes, teenagers are so stressful aren’t they? Imagine 3 of them!”

It sounds like you have had a few awful years OP but it also sounds like you are jealous of your “friend”. Maybe she’s insensitive but I don’t think you can expect her not to talk about her life while listening to you talk about yours.
I do t think you will enjoy this walk, you seem to have already decided that and are anticipating problems that may or may not occur. Sounds like it’s a bad idea

First of all, your friend does not have a “charmed “ life. She has a life, just as you do. Her life experiences might have been different in terms of loss, but she will have had difficulties, problems, setbacks and anxieties because that IS life and is what happens to us all.

You have lost people close to you, but you are not the only person who has. My father died when I was a child, my mother died when I was in my early twenties, my brother died when he was in his twenties, and I have lost other people close to me too. Sad events -like yours - and I mourn their passing, but it does not rule my life, or stop me celebrating other people’s happiness and hearing about their families without being bitter and feeling slighted and cheated.

Why haven’t you made the effort to keep in touch with your friend and tell her about more recent events in your life, both the sad and the happy? I am not surprised she responded to you with pictures and news about her family, she was trying to update you in a condensed way of events in her life since she last saw you or heard from you. It’s not her fault that her family members are alive, and since you haven’t kept her up to date about your family you can’t expect her to know of your losses and struggles. Or in deed the good things like your daughters degree and your former relationship.

Sorry to sound harsh, I know you are not feeling good at the moment, but I am trying to get you to see things in perspective. To say for example that your friend is unfeeling to post photos of her children when she “knows” that seventeen years ago you were considering ivf is one example of how I think perhaps you are seeing things in a very skewed way. Similarly if you have met her mum in the past it is perfectly normal to send you a recent picture of her,it is not being unfeeling because you don’t have your mum any more.

Please meet up with your friend and enjoy the walk and the renewed friendship, I hope it revives the relationship for both of you, and that you can enjoy revisiting and reminiscing about your shared memories and perhaps eventually sharing more recent sadder and happier feelings and experiences.

Take care.

I will update once I’ve been on the walk. Thank you for all your comments. @viques she does know about my daughter’s degree. I have updated her on the brief times when we’ve bumped into each other for example in the supermarket and she does know about my former relationship, as I mentioned in my first post she met him when we bumped into each other at an event. I was hoping to get suggestions of things I could say to her before we start walking to maybe signal to her how I feel. I think I might say that I’m waiting to get therapy for my repressed anxiety and please bear with me if I find it difficult hearing about some of the things in her life because I’ve been struggling with loneliness throughout lockdown. Do people think that’s an ok thing to say or too much? Should I just grin and bear it or should I attempt to tell her some of how I feel?

I think if you say something like that you are creating a problem where there may not be one. If a friend started off our meeting by telling me she finds it difficult hearing about some things in my life I think I would want to go home ASAP.
You should try and let the conversation flow naturally. Unless she is really awful and insensitive then you will just have to try and be happy for her. You don’t seem very close friends so unloading too much on her straight away is unfair.

Faithhope andcharity.

Maybe you can tell her when you met that you have been looking forward to the walk because you have been feeling low and have found lockdown extra stressful. I would hope that many people would pick up on that clue and ask if you wanted to talk about how you were feeling.

But all dialogue is a two way street, and you need to expect and anticipate that she might want to talk about how she is feeling too.

If you find that she is dominating the conversation you could try to refocus it by asking her if she can give you advice.

“ X, one of the reasons I got back in touch with you is that I would like to ask for your advice. Things have been tricky for me, not only in lockdown but for a while now, so can you give me a few minutes to explain how I have been feeling and afterwards give me your thoughts on how I can move forward”.

I'm sorry you're struggling so much OP. But it really does sound like you need some more therapy to deal with this.

With respect, most people lose their parents in adulthood. Many people by their 40s will have lost their parents. It's not just you, and you cannot stop other people from talking about theirs.

These are things that happened quite some time ago, and if you still have such very strong reactions to photos of a friends mother, or them talking about having more than 1 child, then it does indeed sound like you have not dealt with it. Don't you think further therapy would benefit you?

@Calcifer12 Lots of my friends are in their late 50’s and their parents are still alive. It wasn’t just my parents dying when I was 38 and 39. It was mainly my husband dying when I was 41 and the fact that I couldn’t then have any more children. I did say in my OP that I have recently been diagnosed with repressed anxiety and am waiting for counselling.

So thanks for everyone’s comments. The walk was actually enjoyable. Yes she shared info about her two sons and daughter but it was OK as I knew them when they were growing up so it is actually nice to hear about how they are now. I think all your comments helped me to put things into perspective and see that it was more about my hang ups than about her. She listened to my problems as well as telling me about her life so on balance it was worth meeting up. Sometimes when you’re left with your own thoughts for too long things get out of proportion so thank you for reading and commenting.

That’s a great update. I’m so glad things went well on the walk,it sounds as though you and your friend really reconnected and that you came away feeling positive and strong. I think it is easy to overthink and brood on stuff, especially if you are feeling low . I hope this is a first step for you in moving on with things.

Take care.

That is a great update, and just wanted to say so sorry for the losses you’ve experienced, it would take anyone an awfully long time to get over what you have been through, so i hope that you don’t have a long wait for the counselling you mentioned.

I would drop in as well that you never know what someone else is going through, especially if you are only talking to your friend on a surface level. There could be all sorts she is going through.. a difficult marriage, underlying issues with the kids or her own problems. It’s hard to imagine it would amount to what you have been through, but i have got in touch with a few people recently who via facebook looked like they had a charmed life, and when we spoke they were dealing with some terribly difficult things (DV and drug abuse relating to one of their children for example.

That’s nice to hear, OP. I’m glad it was a good walk and catch up.

If your friend is the type of person who likes to talk about herself and her life so much, and not be that interested in you, then I would not like to be in her company. If she isn't going to give you much time in listening to your conversations, then it all would seem quite pointless to be in her company.

Is there anyway you could when lockdown lifts join a few groups to make some more friends, you sound really lonely. I’m sorry for the sad losses in your life.

@Beachcomber74 thank you for your kind words. Yes before lockdown I was in the process of relocating to live nearer to where my daughter lives and planning to join some local groups and activities to meet new people once I’ve settled in there. Unfortunately Covid has stopped all my plans at the moment but once I finally move I think I will be much happier.

Just to let you know, noone has a perfect life. Sometimes it just looks perfect,but its not :)
Over years i managed to stay away from people that makes me upset.you dont own her nothing just dont meet her.