My parents are dead, my sister is a bitch. I am so angry

[SchroedingersCat]

I have just had an argument with my sister on the telephone. Well, it was not an argument, she yelled, would not let me speak then I hung up. I am very angry, although I expected it.

This is the story. Its long I am sorry. I have changed my name, however some people might recognise this.

My mum died of aggressive ovarian cancer in Jan this year. My sister was executor, my brother and i suggested selling some items of mums that no-one wanted and splitting the proceeds between the grandchildren for their trust fund (my sister has two, my brother has two, I have one). Not talking about personal things, but things like washing machine, microwave, kettle, sofa. My sister turned went nuts, called us greedy, accused us of pouncing in the moment mum died, etc etc. Not going into all the details, but lets say she was extremely nasty, vicious and ignored my brother completely at mum's funeral, and refused to go to his wedding two weeks later even tho he tried to hand out the olive branch, got her husband to call and leave him an answer machine message telling him they were ill, refused to talk to me.

One call since, on her birthday when I called her to say happy birthday, she returned my call.

Then, a few weeks ago, she leaves an answer machine message telling me that my father, whom I did not know, has died and she was acting as executor. In reality this meant not very much as he was found with no addresses in his house or will and by the time they traced my sister all the details had been arranged, and the wake was organised by the pub where he drank (alcoholic) which she was not going to as she had a meeting at her sons school which she was not prepared to cancel. Anyway, I spoke to her twice about this, said I doubted veyr much that I would be going as I did not know him, she said it was up to me but felt it was a long way to go (devon to London) for 15 mins and a person I did not know, she said she would not be offended, and did not mind either way if I went or not, my other brothers were not going either. Her attitude was blase, offhand and she pressed the point of me not going, made it clear she did not really want me there.

Anyway, I made the decision after much soul searching, not to go, not because of my sister, but because of decisions around my own emotions, my lack of relationship to my father etc.

I did not call my sister to tell her I was not going, as I had already made it clear I was not going. She did not call me either.

I phoned her today, to try to arrange scattering my mum's ashes at Glastonbury, did not get as far as talking about it. My sister said immediately before anything else, I thought you were going to let me know about not going to dad's funeral? I told her that I thought I had, she became very angry and said you did not, then went into how I should have supported her as I knew she was organising it, I should have been there for moral support, I did not even send her a card (hmm]. I told her that as far as I was concerned I had told her I was not going and if she misunderstood that I was going to call on the day then I apologise (i was trying hard not to be inflammatory). I also said I got the impression she was not bothered whether I turned up or not, had not considered it that important to herself either and any lack of contact from her too made me feel it was not necessary to call her.

She said, I dont care, BUT HE WAS YOUR FATHER [shouting in intimidating manner emoticon] and that I should have shown more care and consideration that if he was someone from my work. I said that biologically yes, but I did not know him, she yelled more at me about me caring more about my friends, would not allow me to say that yes I do care more about my friends than my dad because they are there for me and I know them. Went on to say loads of stuff about how the trouble with people these days is everything has to fit around them and no-one cares about important things, very patronising, sort of a monologue to herself really.

She said again that I should have been there for moral support, and I told her that she should think about what moral support means, given that she promised me and mum she would look out for me (youngest with a baby), and where has her contact been in the last 5 months, that she had made some very nasty and viscious comments about mine and my brothers apparant greed and did she think this was being supportive?

She then shouted the rest of her stuff, I did not get to say anything else at all, she said that did I not think selling mum's stuff at a bootfair was not being greedy, and lots of other stuff, Yelling louder and louder the more I tried to say something. In the end I told her as she was not prepared to listen to me I was not prepared to let her finish her rant and hung up.

I was upset as I did not get to talk about mum's ashes, so I called back, and left a calm polite message saying that I am sorry she still felt I was greedy and only after money, but I was not prepared to listen to her yelling at me about it right now, that I had in fact called as I wanted to talk to the family about scattering mums ashes soon, and could she call me to talk about this, I was not prepared to talk about anyhing else right now. No response. Of course. I was not really expecting one.

I am just soooooo angry, upset, and well, incensed that she is such a bitch. I mean that in the literal sense, not in the nasty need something to call her sense.
I cannot beleive she really thinks those things about me. I had put it down to greif initially and thought time would make her realise how horrid she has been.

She is the most unkind, viscious, spiteful person I know, and I feel guilty for thinking it or saying it, but I just cannot get away from the fact that this is true.

Wow, long, like I said. Sorry. I needed to get it all out.

Ruth - yes she is married, but her relationship with her DD is strained to, as she is quite angry with him and he is very passive in their relationship. I would go so far as to say (i have some professional exp of domestic violence, how it can minifest, possible reasons etc), that I would not be surprised if she is abusive in their relationship. It has occured to me. He tries, a little, to intermediate, has done in the past, but she shouts him down, tells him its none of his business. She told me the other day that he tries sometimes to offer opinions and she said 'there are just some things he has no opinion about that I want to hear' (in relation to me saying that I have discussed the funeral with DP, and her trying to demonstrate its nothing to do with him}. Eventually, he gives in to her wishes, and acts like he is (or maybe he is) happy with those decisions.

I have been to a grief counsellor actually, through CRUSE, however, I did not find it helpful for me, I found it to, I guess supportive rather than productive. I am being referred to a counsellor through my work though which is perhaps a bit more cognitive, and pssibly more like what I need. Nothing against CRUSE, for some people its great, for me it just was not.

Ruth - my sister does not and has not ever, from my memory, listened to anyone when it comes to negative things.

Those around her - her church - she is unhappy with them. Her husband, he iritates her, she complained constantly about him. Her children, too young, my brothers, she is not talking to them, other family members, has absolutely no respect from them, we hardly know them. Friends, she has none.

However, in response to a post saying that it brings out the best and the worst, on a positive, one of my brothers, who I was never close to, mainly as he joined the army when I was young, has shown himself to be a very dignified and pleasant man, and we have both taken time over the last few months to get to know each other and our families better. He handled himself well around my sister, and I saw in him emotions and character traits I had never noticed before. I think he feels similar, certainly acts more emotionally towards me now.

TBH I would stay well away from your sister, I am estranged from my family and it was the best decision I ever made even though it has cost me in some ways - seeing extended family, funerals, weddings etc. She will not change until she is ready to, if ever.

Cargirl - when you made the decision to become estranged, did you feel relieved? I feel that, right now, when I think about not having anything more to do with her, I do feel guilty, but I also feel like a weight is lifted....

yes a mixture of things. I just couldn't cope with having contact with them, it just sent me back to nervous break down state so I did it for my sanity and in the best interests of my family. Relief definitely. I invited them to my wedding it is all very fake tbh they are strangers to me as I've seen them a handful of times in 7 years.

I didn't do the whole speech, giving away thing etc but I didin't want to snub them by not iniviting them. I don't like them, they don't do real conversations, they criticise, they do not accept responsibility for any of their actions etc etc etc

Cargirl -that sounds hardr for you. I am getting married in sept too. Her daughter is meant to be flower girl, although it was only mentioned once and she was not very enthusiastic. I have the dress. Maybe I should just send it to her anyway, with the invite, let her decide if they will be there and in what capacity

I'm really glad to hear that you are getting counselling and help to come to terms with your own grief.
It is important that you don't allow your grief for your mother to get side-lined by all the other stuff going on.
You must give yourself the time and space to come to terms with her passing.

On the other hand, it sounds like the person who needs counselling the most is your sister. Is it really possible that she is happy if her relationships with all those around her are really so bad?
(Of course that isn't your main priority at this time though)

It's great that you've rediscovered your relationship with your brother. I too became close to my brother, in many ways, due to our mother's death.

Becoming estranged from your sister sounds rather drastic, but maybe it's the only way to find your own peace from all this.
However, doing that would probably mean that you could play no part in scattering your mother's ashes.
How would you feel about that?
Would't it also mean that you had little or no influence in the matters surrounding your mother's will?

I think it would be worth sending a polite formalish note very carefully worded asking to be given notice of the ashes being scattered as you would like to have the opportunity to say goodbye to your Mum.

Similarly with your wedding yes I would probably do as you suggest - send the invite and the dress "if my niece would like to be flowergirl she is more than welcome".

Just be ready for both being ignored etc etc but at least you know that you tried.

Families!

I agree with Cargirl.
Polite notes would be a good idea.
You can chose how strongly you want the invitation for your niece to be a flower girl to be.

Ruth - my sister does need some kind of help. But she will not in a million years listen to what I have to say. She will make the decisions she wants to make and when she is ready, because she wants to. Its a shame, I would love to help her but really I cant do it all right now.
I am getting married in Sept, have a beautiful 11 month old who needs me, and who i need, a great partner and relationship which needs my attention, I have to work, although I am off sick right now, need to think about returning, and deal with my own feelings. If she is shutting out everyone around her as she has done for years, I cannot chose now to help her, when all she does is hurt me.

Regarding the will. I had no say at all about how any of it was dealt with. My sister told me and my brother in no uncertain terms that we had absolutely nothing to do with the execution of it, we got what mum left us and that was it (a painting in my case, she had no money to speak of). She even went to see a solicitor when my brother spoke to her about selling items of mum's and told him she could do as she saw fit.

I have written a very shitty letter. Which I ripped up. I rewrote it. After my tel call with her, I sent a nice relatively formal but not too formal email to my sister, brothers asking for us to arrange the scattering of the ashes, gave some dates I was available etc, asked them all to get in touch. My sisters email was returned to me.

So, in this letter that I wrote, I politely informed her that I had enclosed a copy of the email, and could she get back to me asap to arrange times etc that she can make. I also included the invite to my wedding, said I have bought the flower girl dress and will send it to be altered to fit once I have made my own additions to it.

Let her make of that as she wishes.

I also asked that she sends some items which she has, a necklace which mum had given me before she died, photos as my sister has them all, cards that I had sent mum over the years as she took all of these for herself, my birth tag, music CDs of mums which I need for arranging music for wedding.

In my letter, I did not mention anything about the argument, I did not make any sarcastic, snide or other pointed comments, I was polite factual and just said what I had to say.

I do not wish to piss her off too much if she has the ashes, however the more I think about her behaviour and the kind of person she is, I truely feel she will either ignore me, or tell me she has already done it, and is likely to refuse to send any stuff to me on the grounds none of it is 'mine'. I will then request for it again, and when she refuses, I will tell her to f++k herself. I cant be fairer.

Long again. Sorree

Oh and once the ashes are scattered and I have my stuff back, if she does send it/we do scatter the ashes. Once that has all happened. I will then tell her to f++k herself.

SC;
You are in a very difficult situation, but it sounds like what you have done since we last spoke is very sensible.
It's great that you avoided sarcasm and nasty comments in your letter and email. Although they may have given you a small measure of personal pleasure or relief at the time, they would only give your sister more ammunition in the long run.
It was far better that you remained calm and polite, even if only in your written communication.
Now all you can do it wait and see what happens.

I'm sorry that I and us other MNs have been able to give you very little practical advice or support on this matter, but I'm sure everyone would agree that you are coping well and that we are all here for you with lots of e-hugs!!!

On a lighter note, CONGRATULATIONS on your impending wedding!!
You must be very excited and extremely busy as September will arrive before you know it.
It's great that you have such an exciting occassion to look forward to after all these difficulties.
Family events are a great way to release stress and remember the good things in life.
Look at your DD and DP and smile...

I don't know that much about you, but it sounds like you guys had a bit of a rough family life. Perhaps this has really affected your sister in a bad way. I don't always agree with alot that my siblings do, and man! can they be hard work!!!, But i always feel abit grateful that I am a bit more "normal" (lololol, they may not think so though) I have just decided to not expect any more from them than what they are capable of

Ruth - you have all been helpful, and listened to my mammoth moan. Helped me reach a bit of clarity in how to approach things.

It makes me feel sick inside to think that I might leave Bella with no memories of my own childhood in photos, pictures of me and mum when I was little, of mum as a child, family members as children (they are all older than me, which is why I have none of my own). My mum did not keep much and what there is, my sister has.

I hate that my sister has sort of got me held to ransom.

Purple - beleive me I have gone through guilt every day about my sister, how she has suffered with mu passing, how miserable she obviously is. She nursed mum through the 8 months of her illness and it has obviously taken its toll. However, if the last 9 months behaviour was the only time she had been like this, I would have absolutely put it down to grief, and tried to be more patient and understanding with it, but its not. Her and my eldest brother did not talk for 12 years. She started speaking again when he split up from his wife, however, she then stopped talking to him again as he is quite a nomadic person, comes and goes, and she judged his lifestyle and cut him off again accordingly becasue he did not behave how she wanted him too. Her and my other brother stopped talking for about 2 years recently, as she left a sarcastic message on his phone, they argued about it, and she refused to have contact. She decided when she got back in touch. Her and my mother did not talk for 2 years. My sister not only refused to talk to her, but was quite rude too. Mum decided when to start talking with that one tho.

Mum was diagnosed with cancer april 06. For the last year before, mum hated being seen as a duty. My sister as such did not have time to see her at her house often, could only see her on wednesdays at 12:30pm, mum could not be late as it ruined the day for the children. My sister did not visit her in her homefrom june 05 since the march before she became ill in april 06. Just before the xmas, mum decided not to spend it with my sister or us, but to spend it on her own. My sister sent her xmas card to her early, saying merry xmas, 'have a good time on your own. If you dont change your manner towards people you are going to die a bitter and lonely old woman' They saw each other twice since then before mum became ill with cancer.
This is the kind of person she is, and has been for a long time. I dont know why, I guess her life has been harder than mine, but its not my fault, and I dont want to constantly run after her and allow her behaviour to continue. If she wont listen to me on the phone or listen to me when I write, I just do not know what else I can do, apart from close the door for now, but make it clear that should she wish to be a positive influence in my life then she is welcome back.

Purple - thats how I am with my oldest brother. He is very hit and miss in his behaviour, dont see or speak to him for months, sometimes years on end. But its not personal, its not because he does not love me or is annoyed with me. He has his own shit to deal with and he often needs to just go and hide away for a bit. As long as he come back from time to time to let me know he is ok, I dont mind. He has always been like that, and as you say, I have accepted that he will not change anytime soon. He knows I am there for him. However, he is never nasty to me when we talk. He has never shouted at me, insulted me, and he is who is, and I can accept him more than my sister, because he not does go out of his way to be distructive. No-one else in our family has stopped talking to each other. Its only my sister who holds these kind of grudges, and who judges people so harshly .

She did it. She has already scattered them at glastonbury. Well I say that, in fact her husband did it. In february

She has written me a charming letter telling me how jesus saved her before she died blah blah, and how I should not call her.

Like she thinks she can say whatever she likes and not be challenged.

Well, to be honest I am not surprised, and I feel ok about it, as mum is at Glastonbury, the person who did it is not important, that she is there is.

I am not going to call her now as I am angry and I will rant.
I will wait until I feel calm and have thought about my words to her, and then I will call, she of course wont answer but even if does I will speak calmly and rationally.

I hope her god is forgiving, as her family will not forgive her anytime soon. I am not sure I will ever forgive her.

for you, at least you know now and at least your Mum is somewhere where she would want to be.

I really hope that you get the items that you want from your sister. Hugs.

I am really . My DP and I have had long chats about this, and he has said, which I agree with, that he thinks she may actually be ill. Be suffering from a mental illness. Her behaviour is getting worse, and worse, and she appears to be on a path of self destruction. For me, it appears I am less forgiving that DP, he said if she was ill, he would help her. I feel right now, if she is ill, I would encourage her to seek professional help, for her own self, her children and her husband, and to come to terms with the damage she has caused her family, which as far as I am concerned, is irreparable.

1. I have emailed my brothers and send a copy of the letter she sent me, word for word, for them to make of as they will.
2. DP is going to write to her husband, try to appeal to any decent side he might have, see if we can get some things, in particular photos of me when I was young as I have nothing to show my own daughter of what I looked like, and of course I cant ask my mum as she is not here to ask. Letter to be sent to his work address as I do not trust her not to open his post. Esp if she sees the locality postmark.
3. I am writing a letter to her. This is what I am going to say.

'Dear x
Your decision to scatter mum's ashes behind the families back, without us present as we wished, and as mum would have wished, whilst malicious, spiteful and disrespectful, it was by no means a surprise. I had anticipated that you had already done this, as your behaviour is not that predictible. None of your deceit can be hidden. I know all of the lies you have told.

Your continued appalling behaviour towards people who were your family demonstrates either a signifcant character defect, or you are unwell, and that you need to seek professional help, in order to minimise the damage you are having and will continue to have on your own children and husband.

As I suspect you already knew when you scattered mum's ashes without me there that you would not longer be welcome in my life. So I am surprised that you thought I would be there for you at our fathers funeral.

Please do not expect an invite to my wedding.

Please send me the following items which belong to me
x
x
x

If you keep these items, I hope you can live with the knowledge that you have stolen items of mums.

Cat.

oh dear did not change my name! oh well. Its not really a secret it it?

is that you pavlov?

lol Cod

Pavlov, just read your thread. What a sister

One of my close friends had a situation so very much like yours - she was the youngest of three sisters and when her mother died, the oldest sister acted so much like your older sister. She just a distorted version of the truth that no one could change. The older sister (like yours) also had a difficult, problem-filled familiy life. I witnessed this over a year and was shocked at how things unfolded. The funeral, which all three sisters attended, was marred by a bad quarrel between the sisters which happpened at the wake. The quarrel spread outside the house with people shouting at each other in the street. Not the way anyone wanted their mother to be remembered. Now (nearely a year later) my friend and her older sister are not in contact.

I wonder just how common this type of situation is? I am so sorry you were not there to see the spreading of the ashes at Glastonbury. At least, though, you avoided any quarrel or bad atmosphere that could have occurred if you, your brothers and sister had all met up on sucn an emotive occasion. I know this is small comfort, but might help.

Tigermoth - thanks for your post. I agree, maybe it was for the best in the long run, but it not change the way it was done, the deceit and lies arenot christian, she considers herself to be a christian. I am not a christian as such, my beleifs are more fluid that to follow a set religious path, however, I understand the morals of christianity, and my sister is not a christian. Even with my own beleifs I am more a christian that she is!

fwiw, i wouldn't send that letter. it won't help you to get the things that you need to get back from her. it will entrench her even further.

i would just send an incredibly neutral letter (indifferent if you like) making an arrangement to be sent/pick up the things you want (i'd take the tone of assuming that as they are yours, they are not hers to bestow you but rather that you are writing about the arrangement of getting them.

it sounds like an awful situation. she sounds very very difficult and probably very very much in pain and anger, and you have been patient to now. keep going. for you, not for her.

Sophable - they are not her items to are right. She will not give them back to me whether I write a polite neurtral note or not. Some of these items she took from mum's house whilst me and my brother were not there, before we were able to go through them as a family. She acted like a thief in the night. The other items are items which I had not taken as I left to come home on the day of the funeral, and did not think it appropriate to ask for them immediately given her comments about me being greedy.

I will send the letter. I cannot let her continued behaviour go unchecked. She might be hurting, but she is not the only one who lost a mum. But she is the only one who treated her badly when she was alive, and whilst she may have regret and hurt at her own behaviour, I will no longer bear the brunt of her own actions.