how to help a friend who's lost their baby at 4 days?

[DonnaLouise]

Our closest friends lost their gorgeous baby when she was 4 days old.
the pregnancy was fine. no complications there. baby was late arriving so, as a qualified reflexologist, I tried reflexology which didn't work, so 2 days later she went to see an accupuncturist who is a family friend of ours, who successfully brought on my labour.
Indeed, it worked and labour commenced the evening after the session. However, her waters showed signs of meconium and so the midwife said that my friends' planned home birth was not possible so they went into hospital where she was in the second stage for 2 hours. Foetal heart rate was heard 10 minutes before delivery, or, as the attending midwife afterwards said she "thought" she heard the heart.
Baby came out white and was immediately taken for resuscitation and spend the short 4 days of her life unconscious, and on a life support machine until the decision was made to let her go.
I need to know how I can fully support my friends. This all happened last november, so 'things' have calmed down, but I realise that they'll still hurt as much now as then and I want to be there for them without putting my foot in it, and possibly worse still, giving the impression that I've forgotten about the baby. Which I haven't. I think about her every day.
All this happened 2 weeks after I started my training as a midwife. I need to make sense of what happened so that I can help women in similar circumstances who I will definitely deal with during my training and my future career.
I know a few of you are midwives - Marina is one as I remember??? so any advice, professional, or personal, would be appreciated.

Have got no advice whatsoever DonnaLouise.

This sounds truely heartbreaking and has bought a tear to my eye - I am sure you are a great friend.

There are lots fo poeple on here who have been in similar situations to that of your dear friend so i'm sure you will get some great advise.

Sc x

Not a midwife, but I have had two friends who lost a child. One at less than a week, the other at around a year. I only knew both after their losses, but what I have found in both cases was that they didn't want their child to be forgotten and that even a year or several on, they found it helpful to be able to include them in conversations without it being a taboo subject (iykwim). Everyone is different. Have you spoken to your friend about how her baby's death has affected you? After all, it is not only those suffering the immediate loss who need to grieve and then cope. You may find others avoid the subject and that this is not helping them. Perhaps you will help yourself and them by talking through everything (and continuing to talk, when appropriate, long after the event).

butterfly

thanks. you've picked up on the fact that, yes, I and the (female) members of our 'gang' are still reeling from what has happened - I'm the only one with a kid so I think it's been harder for me.

but no, I've no right to feel and continue to feel upset. It's my friends I've got to look out for. It has however, worried me about how I will cope with my first death... people have said my experience will make me a better midwife. let's wait and see!

You have every right to feel upset, don't think otherwise. You are going through the grieving process too, so don't be hard on yourself. Accept this and work with it to help both yourself and your friend and wider circle of friends. Talk, talk, some more and talk again....this will all help.

You sound as if you have the compassion needed to be a very caring midwife - good luck with your studies - and also to be a strong and true friend.

butterfly

DonnaLouise, what a great friend you are. I'm not a midwife, but a SANDS member after I lost my unborn baby when he was at 22 weeks' gestation.
I was really sorry to hear about the death of your friend's daughter. What an awful tragedy for you all. I can't believe someone as thoughtful as you sound would ever put her foot in it, and in my experience most bereaved parents long to be able to talk to someone about their baby without being made to feel they are embarassing or morbid. If you see them socially, just asking them simply how they are coping might be just what they need to hear. I was so grateful to the friends who asked how I was and actually seemed interested in my answers.
With regard to your own professional interests, I hope this idea helps.
After Tom died I got superb support both from SANDS and from my local bereavement midwife at the hospital where Tom was born. I nominated her for Prima Baby Midwife of the year and she made it to the finals but didn't win.
If you would like her contact number, please mail me off-board.
I don't think she would object to me saying that some midwives have a natural vocation for helping parents after a baby's death and she is one of those people, which is how she came to specialise. She is having such a positive impact on the hospital's policies and also a rock for bereaved parents. She single-handedly got me through a subsequent pregnancy and was there at my dd's birth, a hugely emotional moment for us all. At the very least she may be able to talk things through with you on a professional basis - one of her responsibilities is debriefing the hospital staff, especially midwives, who deliver stillborn babies.
SANDS also have guidelines for health professionals and publish an excellent book, When a Baby Dies (Kohner, publ Routledge). This includes a lot of information aimed at health professionals supporting bereaved parents.
SANDS may also be able to provide support for your friends when and if they want it. The staff there are so kind and understanding.
Phew, long post. Sorry. Very best of luck with your training and take care. You sound like you will be a great asset to a wonderful profession!

You have a right to grieve too! Allow yourself to do so while being aware that your friend needs you. I think anyone would need time to get over a close friend losing a baby.

I had twins, one stillborn, and the kindness and gentleness of the midwives in dealing with the situation will stay with me always. They were fantastic. It's hard to explain but their own feelings of sorrow were there, but overlaid with professionalism. Knowing they were sad too helped me enormously - my baby was important not just to me and my family but he also touched their lives, even if briefly. I hope that makes some kind of sense. It sounds like you'll be great -good luck!

Donnalouise - I am so sorry to hear about your friends baby - maybe my experience will help a little.

One of my closest friends lost her first baby just after I had had my DS. It made things very difficult for a while as she found it hard to see me with my son - the baby she had lost was a boy too. I saw her a lot on my own and was led by her as to when she wanted to start to get to know my little boy - it did take a while and I know that she found it hard to be with small children even a year later. We just kept talking - about how she felt and about her little boy. She had a photo of him which at first she kept tucked away but which now is on display in her home - this felt like a real step forward to me for some reason - and had a ring made with his name inscribed in it, which she wears all the time. I think these 'symbolic' things helped her to move forward. SANDS helped her a lot, I know.

And also remember her partner is grieving too - I think sometimes the partners get forgotten because often they are supporting their wives and don't get the same attention IYKWIM?

I wish that I had had a friend like you when I went through the same experience as your friend. I also lost my DD after she passed meconium inside me but she only lived for five minutes. One of the things I would have liked to have seen was some flowers on her grave occasionally from someone else other than myself as it would have meant that others had not forgotten her, but as my ex-husband could not cope with the loss I had to put on a brave face and pretend I was 'over it' and so no-one even mentions her now.
Flowers on the grave may help but it may be worth speaking to your friend first to see if she would mind, and perhaps you could go with her if she doesn't like going alone. You seem to understand quite well what she is going through and as you say things have calmed down but that can be a lonely time as peoples lives have moved on and her feelings will probably still be as raw as they were when it happened. Time heals but there will always be a part of her life missing and that is hard to deal with. Give her time to talk as that helps and this will help you in your career as I noticed a few midwives were not sure how to approach me, but on the whole the job they did was fantastic.
One friend of mine (A Nurse) bought me a silver plated birth Certificate holder which was really nice as she said she wanted to buy a gift for my daughter.
I'm sure you will know the right thing to say when she is ready to talk, take care of yourself and your friend
Best Wishes

marina, I remembered you were in some caring capacity... thanks to everyone for your kind words which have set me off again!

I was thinking of buying the kohner book anyway, but marina's recommendation has given me the impetus to get on amazon and order it.

Bond33, so sad to hear about your loss. I realise it's something that you can never ever get over completely - something which has been emphasised by my mentor midwife who lost her son, 21 years ago, after he lived for 8 hours. 'Our' baby doesn't have a grave as, after the PM (out of which, came nothing conclusive), she was cremated and I think our friends still have her and plan to scatter her where she was conceived. I think they'll be doing this on their own rather than with 'the gang' - whatever gets them through it, huh? She was conceived when we all had a weekend away together so as you can imagine, it's sad to look back at those photos we took at the time. Bond33, perhaps you should mention her more and give people the impression that you are happy to talk about her? Our friends made it clear, that sometimes they will talk about her and expect us to join in, and other times they will let us know they don't need to if we try and broach the subject.

I always thought it was dreadfully sad when someone lost their baby when I've read threads on mumsnet, and have even cried, but when it's your own circle... man! that's a different ball game!

As my husband said, when he gave a reading at her funeral, there should be a law against children dying before their parents.

my sincere feelings of love to all those who have experienced loss - including friends!

BTW, I am very good at putting my foot in it! Believe me!

My parents' first child (Marie) was stillborn on Christmas Eve 1963 at 8 months gest. because of undiagnosed toxaemia. My parents were swept along obviously in a tide of grief and hospital advice etc and back then the hospital said they would deal with funeral etc. Anyway to cut a long story short, mum and dad never knew where their first born was buried. It was only after dad died in 91 that mum told us and I helped her to find the grave which we did (not far from dad's grave). Mum and dad used to spend their Sundays looking for the grave and it used to upset mum so much dad wouldn't take her any more. I know it absolutely broke their hearts to lose a child like this and I cannot begin to imagine how your friends feel (or yourself as close friend). I hope that they have many more friends like yourself and that their daughter will always remain a memory which is very much alive.

btw, eeek, feelings of sadness won't come close to how I'll feel when I come to dealing with someone in your situation! But, that's part of the learning process I suppose. Knowing how to distance oneself enough whilst at the same time being empathetic.
I'm glad you had a positive experience with the midwives.

jampot, we will continue to keep her memory alive. Indeed, my husband is running the marathon in aid of Scope, a charity chosen by our friends, on the basis that baby would have suffered a degree of brain damage and needed their help had she lived.

thank goodness we're more enlightened than we were 40 years ago...

Hi, I have just had my friend here who lost her baby boy at 4 months old, 2 years ago. She loves talking about him and I understnad her needs. I talk about him too. Some people tend to avoid the subject and think that Em is doing fine but she isn't. It was 2 years ago 3 weeks ago and she is still grieving. She finds it hard that people avoid the subject but don't understand she needs to talk about him. I am very close to her, we met in hospital when we were pregnant, her with Daniel, me with Megan, we talk all the time and I know she has to talk about it all. She doesn't see some people at all because they have children of similar ages and think she will be reminded, but like she said tonight, its babies at the age he died, not the age he would be now. He had a heart condition and we all knew he was going to die, we didn't realise it was going to be so soon.
Sorry am waffling now, so will go, sorry to hear of your friends lost..
((((HUGS))))

Bond33, I was really moved and saddened to read that no-one mentions your baby now. I hope that changes.
xxxxx

As I read these stories I am filled with such sadness for all of you who have lost babies ... I send you all my love .... I really don't know what else to say apart from that ...... thinking of you all ....
Ghosty xxxxxxx

I've just been reading this because last night I spent an hour on the phone toa friend who lost her baby at 34 weeks gestation, she's just got the postmortem results and there was nothing wrong with him, he was perfect and there seems to be no reason why he died. This happened to her a week after our dd2 was born in November which I know must make it alot harder for her.
I just don't know what to say to her, but I have realised (especially through listening to what Marina had to say at the time of Tom's death) that all she needs is someone to listen to and to know that he's not forgotten.

Being there for her and not letting the phone divert to the answerphone is just what she needs, Susan. What a wonderful friend you are to make time for her when you have your own concerns.