killer cells - can you develop them?

[desperatehousewife]

desperately trying to find out why I might have one healthy wonderful 4 year old, but have since had a stillbirth at 25 weeks and a missed miscarriage at 16 weeks. Does any one know if you can develop killer (after having a healthy baby)?

DHW - I am in no way an expert but I believe that the answer is Yes. Having researched this because of my own siuation I have read somewhere that it is possible to develop NK (natural killer) cells following a succesful pregnancy.

I fell pg naturally after about 5 years of trying only to have to make the awful decision to terminate the pg at 23 weeks because our much loved and much wanted little boys kidneys had not developed and he would have slowly died in the womb which I couldn't bear to happen. I have had two IVF cycles since, both resulting in pgs and both ending in m/c.

After the second m/c I read alot of information on the CARE website immunology forum which I think is where I read about how NK cells can be activated by pg and subsequent pgs can end in m/c or failure to get pg in the first place because of this increased NK level activity.

I should warn you that not all consultants believe in the existence of NK cells - my own consultant in Northern Ireland shot me down in flames when I mentioned this at my last review. We are now going to Nottingham in July to try and have further testing to see if we can find a reason for the m/c's.

We just, like I am sure yourself just want an answer to what is happening - I know that we may never find an answer but at least we have to try.

If I can find any further info I will try and do a link for you. Take care and I hope you get some answers to the awful times that you have been through over the last few months.

I read an article in Mother and Baby magazine where the woman developed killer cells after catching toxoplasmosis. I'll go and see if I can find it and check for the rest of the details. I know she went on to have a successful pregnancy after several miscarriages so give me a few minutes and I'll be back.

Sorry, I can't find it at the moment. I know it was in one of the baby magazines fairly recently but I can't find which one. I'll have a good read over the next couple of days and see if I can find it for you. I'm sure there must be someone else out there who's also read it.

thank you so much olihan. Also wendy thanks for your message - so sorry about your terrible experiences - what a nightmare. I will have a look on the CARE website (never heard of them).

I have been recommended by someone I met yesterday a consultant who is doing killer cells trials at epsom hospital. CAT me if you want and I can give you all the details. He's very good apparently.

wendy - can't fid any link to CARE - who are they? do you know the web address?

ta

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DHW

Hopefully if this works it should take you to the CARE bulletin board. If you look under the immunology forum there is some good information from people who have elevated levels of killer cells

\link{http://www.carefertilityweb.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php}

I have booked a consultation with Dr George Ndukwe at CARE Nottingham in July to discuss immune issues so I will let you know how I get on.

Sorry I have no idea where that went to.

www.carefertilityweb.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Clicked on post message before I had finished, but anyway that is the address of the CARE bulletin board. I don't know whether I have already said or not but CARE is an assisted conception facility but some of the information about elevated killer cells could very well be applicable to your situation.

Okay, I finally found it. It was in Pregnancy and Birth from Sept 2005 so it shouldn't be too out of date.
Basically the woman contracted toxoplasmosis, had to wait a year before trying to conceive again, then had several miscarriages around 5 - 6 weeks gestation. Her immune system was in a hyperactive state and she was producing 10 times more killer cells than was normal. The killer cells were attacking the fetuses and becoming more aggressive in each pregnancy. She was given steroids to suppress her immune system and finally had a successful pregnancy.

There isn't much more info on the killer cells in the actual article, it's more of a 'it happened to me' type thing but it does suggest looking at www.miscarriageclinic.co.uk or phoning 0700 4337845 for help support and information miscarriage and natural killer cells.

Hope some of it helps and that you get some answers.

olihan - thanks so much - really appreciate this. I might well get a blood test done for killer cells just so i can rule it out or not.

thanks

I have had 3 m/c all by week 5. I'd been id'ed as having a septum, but surgery revealed my uterus is arcuate or slightly curved. It was also learned in my blood work that I have a blood clotting disorder called APS or Anti-Phospholipid Syndrome. After #3, a referral made more than a year ago was contacted... a doctor treating women with high numbers of m/c. We completed extensive paperwork on each of ourselves for a health perspective, and we compiled all of my our records related to this journey and sent them to our doctor. We were called and told that he would see us to consider for treatment. Bottom line, after hearing about natural killer cells and that it's believed they can play a role in recurrent pregnancy loss, we agreed to the blood testing. A woman, we were told, should have 4-8 percent of NK cells. I had almost 13%. The doctor described it as a major blow. The treatments available are providing hope, as we've read that blood infusions can increase success outcomes to 80%. We are considering this and believe we will pursue it. Note, however, that our doctor is treating me for all possible contributions! He has found a scar in my uterus that is either from my 10/27/08 m/c or 7/27/08 uterus surgery. The doctor wants to remove the scar before infusion therapy which will be preconception and continue monthly throughout the pregnancy as long as a high killer cell count is detected. Also, I am on prenatal vitamins, B12, and folic acid. And finally, we are supplementing my body's hormone production with natural hormones to address it's weak output. This, so the necessary hormones can be on hand to sustain the pregnancy. We are hopeful most by the idea of the transfusion therapy. We believe it's a key player as it's commonly in existence with APS, the blood-clotting. This post is being made to offer hope to others with similar stories.

its to do with blood types, is your dh a different blood type to you. because if the baby is a different blood type to you your body can think its a foreign body and try to get rid of it, but there is a something you can do for that.