Haunted by stillbirth 50 years ago.

[QE]

Even though this happened 50 years ago mil and fil have never got over it and I am truly shocked at the way they were treated back then. dh never knew much detail as he was growing up, only that he had a baby sister who died at birth. fil seems to talk more to me for some reason.

At the birth, it was discovered the baby was breech. fil was telling me about it only the other day - he says he saw the feet emerge yet the midwife insisted mil walked down the stairs to give birth on the living room floor. As soon as the baby was born it was whisked away and they never saw it (her) again. There was no funeral, no chance to say goodbye. He was close to tears and it nearly broke my heart listening to him talk.

Apparently they have never really spoken about it over the years. They never had any counselling, the midwife was never brought to book (if indeed she had been at fault - although it looks that way by making mil walk downstairs during delivery). There is not even a grave to visit. What happened to the baby does not bear thinking about.

I cannot imagine losing a baby, yet I cannot comprehend giving birth for the baby to then be taken away and be told to just get on with your life. Many stories on MN have brought me to tears but this is much closer to home.

Don't know why I feel so shocked and haunted by this. Maybe I will feel better writing it here. MAybe I can find advice on what to say/do for mil and fil, I don't know. Thanks for listening anyway.

QE, are you absolutely sure that the baby' birth and death were not registered? Maybe your pils were never given the certificates. It is possible to check online if you know the surname and rough date of birth. I was able to check about the cousin who died at 1 day old 51 years ago. I can post the website details if you want to try.

This is all so sad

I was about to ask the same question as KTP did. Civic Registrations have included stillbirths since 1927 so there should be a record somewhere.

I would second all of those people who have said that counselling would help.

My mother's first child, 42 years ago, Fiona, was born with what I thought was spina bifida, although she recently told me that the heart was back to front (?). They were told that it would be best to let her die as she was so badly handicapped. My mother was really badly affected by this - we have quite a history of dead children in the family, plus my father never spoke of it again, which probably didn't help. They are divorced, and he has never mentioned it to me, either.

In the last few years she's gone through quite a bit of counselling, which included some time with SANDS, which she said really helped, despite the time gap. It was important, I think, that someone understood and acknowledged what had happened to her.

I think that the general treatment of stillbirth then seems inhumane. My mother said that people would cross the street to avoid her, because she had been pregnant but now there wasn't a baby.

and QE, SANDS might also be able to suggest ways of finding out what happened from the records.

I don't know if the baby was a true stillbirth or if the baby had died during or just before birth. Some of the questions I want to ask seem much, much too painful to ask. I know pil wants to talk because he gets up and comes to sit next to me. He wouldn't do that would he, if he didn't want to? The reason he started talking the other day was because it was dh's birthday and they'd come over. I asked what time of day dh was born and he changed the subject to talk about the baby they had lost.

KTP - I took pil's word for it that nothing happened after she was taken away so not sure if it was registered - again, another difficult question. One thing pil did say was it didn't hit him straight away - one day he was looking out of the kitchen window and it just hit him like a ton of bricks and he cried and cried.

How do I go about finding out about if the birth was registered? You know, I'm not sure if my pil's actually remember the date she was born. I am liking the idea of the tree as bundle suggested - I will think more on that and suggest something for their next wedding anniversary or mil's birthday coming up in June.

Why don't you say (or write) to yur FIL that you are happy to talk about it whenever he wants and if he ever wants to talk about it then you are there.

I think I could bring the subject up at any time - that's not what bothers me. The thing I worry about is talking about it too much in one go iyswim? I try to let fil lead but it's not always possible to have an uninterrupted conversation with my 2 toddlers about.

I think he would like some time on his own away from mil to talk about it but with her being so dependant it is very hard to think of a way to engineer a situation to that end. There is no way that they would go for professional counselling btw.

KTP - Any info on how to access records would be great - how hard would this be without an accurate DOB?

Really at all the horror stories on this thread.

What a heartbreaking story. I feel horrible for your in-laws. Your FIL is very blessed to have you to talk to about it though. He must feel very comfortable with you. I do think that SANDS would be a good place to start the healing process. (I see that others have suggested the same.) Keep allowing him to talk to you. It is really hard to find people to listen to you when you are sad about something that cannot be fixed. Could you talk to your MIL about it?

My parents had a still born son and never got to see him either and this was only 32 years ago. My father was actually in the hospital for a minor op when my mum was admitted in pre-term labour (35 weeks) so he wasn't aware of what was going on until shortly after his birth/death. They don't talk about it either. The feelings of family and friends at the time was that they should just try again and put the experience behind them.

QE it really does sound as if he wants to talk doesn't it? You are in a priveledged position really. Sometimes in laws can be like that- you're close, but not too close.

If you're unsure what to say (which would be understandable) I would contact SANDS yourself for guidance.

If FIL does want to talk and do something, perhaps you could complete some kind of memory book with him? Sometimes writing things down can have extremely therapeutic qualities.

I would also speak to someone at the hospital, I think most places iirc have records of where babies are buried, often in memorial gardens. I know the hospital back home had a special place set aside also for people to sit who had lost babies.

Are they religious? They might also find it helpful to chat to a chaplain or whoever is appropriate to them.

I need to be careful because by nature, I am a fixer. They might not want things to be "fixed" - not the right word but yswim. I would hate to go too far with trying to help them come to terms with this if they really don't want to. Impossible to speak with mil due to her mental state. The idea of getting advice from SANDS on what and how to say things is good and one I may do.

They're not in the slightest bit religious so that's not an option. They are both very isolated too. They have no friends. The only other visitors are me and my family. Apart from that they go nowhere and see no one. They have no interests and just sit watching tv all day. They turn their noses up at every suggestion to go anywhere or do anything. Very sad.

The other people worth contacting are CRUISE bereavement care.

I know what you mean about being a fixer. I've done a (small amount of) counselling training, but I always find it far easier to solve than empathise, iyswim.

How much support is your MIL getting QE? I was just thinking, if they could arrange (they probably social services but there are charities out there) someone to come and visit, FIL might get a break / chance to talk to you, or indeed to make friends.

My gran lost two babies. One had to have his skull crushed to save my gran. Gran died at the ripe old age of 98 and she had 9 other children but on her deathbed while lost in another world she kept talking about the two babies she lost. It breaks my heart when I think of that. All the years that had passed and her last few thoughts were of her lost babies.

drosophila - that is truly awful

I dont think the pain ever subsides for anyone.
My sister died at 3 days in 1951 and my brother at 3years in 1954.
When i went to visit my Mother at Christmas she really wanted to talk to me about how awful it was-and like your inlaws its over 50 years ago.

sorry i havent any advice,all i could do really was to listen to my Mother and give her a big hug

Dros
My gran lost a two-year-old daughter to Spanish Flu. She went on to have 5 other children. But when she died at the age of 92, she died w/that girl's name on her lips, stretching her hand up in the air, as if reaching for her.

QE, the website I used is called www.1847online.com. You have to register and pay a minimum of £5 to search it and each search costs 10p or something. You don't need the actual date of birth but the more info you have the less searches you have to do. The birth and death certs are on indices for three months of each year. Once you find the one you need, there is enough info on the index to order an actual copy of the cert if you want.

I know you don't want to interfere too much but maybe try to find out some info and then let them decide how far they want to take it? I initially used the website to trace the death cert for my fil's father, for my own reasons initially (concerned about a possibly inherited health problem). He had sadly died when fil was a baby and without going into the ins and outs, fil didn't know much about it. We got a copy of the death cert and now fil has taken an interest, spoken to members of his family about his dad and is keen to try to visit his grave, so tracing that is my next task! Fil would probably never have got around to looking into this by himself but I think it will be good for him in the long run...

I would also agree with what Peachyclair said about maybe it being easier for your fil to talk to you than someone else - sometimes things are not talked about in families and it becomes almost taboo to bring them up - it takes someone with a bit of distance to be able to ask the questions. I have found out lots of things about dh's family that he didn't know about, just by asking in an interested way!

Feel free to CAT me any time if you decide to go ahead with searching the website and need any help.

Oh how very very sad

What awful stories on here.

Mr Bubble's great aunt gave birth to her first born child (a son) nearly fifty years ago in the labour ward of a cottage hospital. An hour later she was taken to the post-natal ward and given a live newborn to hold to 'make her feel better.'

This only came out after my healthy, full term son died during a botched labour last year.

I think she was relieved to tell (and cry about) this, TBH. It was very much brushed under the carpet in those days.

Sorry, her son was stillborn. Didn't make that clear.

Oh bubble thats so sad, both you and your great aunt. How on earth do you ever get over something like that

QE - Thats so awful, and yes all these stories bring tears to your eyes.

My Mam lost her first baby 35 years ago.
She ha told me that she was full term and they weren't aware there was a problem. Apparently the little girl was born alive but only survived for a few minutes. Her stomache and intestines were on the outside (this is what my Mam was told) and she had no chance. She died and they took her. My Dad saw her but my Mam never even got to see or hold the baby.
It brings a lump to my throat now and i think with me and my sister having babies the last few years it's brought it all back for my Mam. She really regrets not seeing the baby.
She had to stay in for 10 days in a post natal ward with all the babies too

Just had to add, my mother's cousin gave birth to a still born child at Queen Charlotte's in about 1955. The baby was removed and buried within 2 days and she has NEVER been able to find out where the body went. She has never talked about it since, and she and her husband never ever tried for more children because they were afraid that the same thing would happen again as no explanation was ever given. It makes me so angry for her that I could hardly bear to read all the thread.

Nothing constructive to add but this thread has brought a real lump to my throat, can't even begin to imagine what these mothers (and fathers) went through, so terrible sad.

QE, how totally sad for them, so unsupported in those days and yet the feelings are the same. Can I just say that I think its wonderful that you are supporting your FIL. Even if it doesn't go any further than that its probably a huge weight off for him to be able to share this. Sometimes men of that generation can only talk about these things to women because it was "womens stuff". Maybe you're the first person he's felt able to chat with. I agree SANDS might help you help him. It would be great if he could find it in himself to think of something that would help him feel better about it, like a tree or some kind of acknowdlegement of their wee baby girl. It sounds like that might just be enough, just to acknowlege her. Would it be totally naff and bad taste to name her, write her a wee note about how sad they are to have missed knowing her, tie it to a balloon and send it off?

Good for you honey. Sounds like he needs you. Love to their wee babe, wherever she is xx.

Love to you Bubble x.