What have we done wrong? DD crying at the slightest thing, am sick of it.

[Bumperlicious]

DD has just turned 3. She is mostly a lovely child, but when she can't get her own way she cries, she can cry for a really long time, e.g. can I have some bubbles? No. Cue half an hour crying and getting all worked up.

We have just moved house but in my head it has been going on longer than that (DH disagrees).

It's also causing problems at night, not every night, but regularly. We put her to bed but she finds excuses to get us to come back, 'I want my Peppa Pig blanket, I need a drink, I want XXXX toy'. The problem is DH and I deal with it differently. He hates for her to cry herself to sleep, and also wants peace and quiet at night. I think we shouldn't give in to any of her demands at night otherwise she will think she can always get her own way and only has to cry.

For example last night she wanted a drink, so we gave it to her, then she wanted something else but we ignored her, she cried for 15 minutes till I went up their, turns out she wanted her Peppa Pig blanket (she already had a duvet, but sometimes sleeps with just this blanket on her) so I gave it to her and she went straight to sleep. So, should I have just given into her in the first place to avoid 15 minutes of crying, or should we ignore her completely at night.

This morning she got herself really worked up because she couldn't find a particular toy and while I'd gotten up to change her because she was wet, I then wouldn't go back in to find the toy because she is supposed to wait for the light on her sheep to change (it was about 15 mins early, we are trying to be consistent with the sleep clock thing).

I don't know what to do, and feel like I am getting everything wrong. I feel like I am the bad parent and DH good because he just wants to pacify her but I feel like she should be learning she can get her own way.

Sorry if I post and run, I have to go to work, but really need some help on this. Is this just 3 year old behaviour? Or am I just a mean old mummy?

I think you need to prepare for some of the requests then ignore

At bedtime she should have water in a sports bottle/non spill cup by the bed, the PP blanket and duvet on the end of her bed and when she is going tio sleep she gets to pick out about 5 soft toys

Sounds like she's a bit unsettled by the move and needs her comfort objects around her. Dd was like this (now 3.8) and still can be when she's feeling insecure. Why not ask her what she thinks she might need before lights out and make a pact with your dh that you'll only go in once after that?

will watch with interest. DD also just turned 3 and doesn't cry too much unless she falls over or DS (baby) 'hurts' her - instant tears even when there is absolutely no injury - I never belittle her though, but it's hard to know how much attention/sympathy to give isn't it!

agree you need to prepare for bedtime. and definitely have a chat with DH so you're both on the same page, so to speak. inconsistency is bad for everyone (I should know, it took several months of awful bedtimes to realise it...)

Will also watch with interest, I have similar problems with my DS 2.8. Am mainly having bedtime problems with the 'room service' calls to get extra attention. No real advice to offer but just wanted you to know you are not alone! I think with my DS he is quite anxious about being left, all of a sudden after months of settling himself fine. And I think consistency is definitely the key, asI give mixed messages most of the time, last night I gave in to the crying around 9.45 and went in and just busied about his room, tidying up, and he laid quite happily then and went off to sleep. Am going to try a new routine tonight, stick to it and not give in to the calls. In for a few hellish nights but hopefully followed by more peaceful evenings.

You could try a night time 'check list' - pictures of toilet, drink, teddy, blanket, books etc and anything else she might possibly want. Each night go through them methodically with her, checking off that she has each one. Then when she cries you can gently point out that night time check list is finished.

or something like that anyway....

There is a developmental spurt around 3 which may be having a effect - it often messes up sleep patterns and bedtime in particular. See here.

AngelDog, so helpful that seems like it really is a stage they go through! I didn't realise.

Thanks for the replies.

I like the night time check list idea, and will check out your link angeldog.

DH and I have decided to make a more concerted effort to get her to bed earlier. We are a bit disorganised usually but will have to have more of a routine when DC2 comes along. So last night it was milk at 7 then in bed by 7.30. I think it went ok, though I was out last night.

I think part of the problem is that she doesn't know how to get to sleep herself. We took dummies away from her about 3 or 4 months ago - it was hell for a good few months! And now she just crashes around her room until she falls asleep. Even in the car I've noticed she goes from talking to zonked out. I don't know how to help her wind down. I say we should tell her no playing but DH doesn't see the harm and says how will we stop her without a battle?

Oh, I just feel like I'm doing this all wrong. I am very hormonal at the moment, and we are all feeling unsettled because of the move. I'm not coping very well with it all and am so tired and fed up with it all (the move, the new house, DD, being pg) that I sat at my desk and cried Pathetic isn't it?

awwww - when you are all feeling unsettled like that it is bound to be difficult, so the main thing is to tell yourself that it is normal and ok for it to be tricky. This won't be a permanent thing, you will all settle soon.

I really think that investing time in a settling down routine would help. I think I would try:

6pm bath
6:30 quiet games together that you control the tempo of
7pm Start the checklist (gathering teddies and blankets together)
Then milk and story time.
7:20 teeth, toilet and go through the checklist in a really calm and soothing way.
7:30 light off (you may need to sit quietly with her)

I also think that if your dh is not on board with this, then in order for it to work you'll need to take it on, if he is disagreeing with it, then he won't do it properly.

It will probably take a good couple of weeks, and drive you batty with boredom but I'm a firm believer that a child who goes to sleep at a reasonable time and gets enough sleep, is a child who is more reasonable and easy going in the day. Until you have the night sleep sorted I wouldnt even bother trying to tackle the rest.

When it gets too bad, just picture her at 18, will she be doing the same? No! It always helped me get things into perspective.

Try to keep a star chart for you, so you can see just how much she does cry, and remember when she is good. Or even a star chart for her and make sure you reward her with at least 10 smiles a day. (Hunt for the good things if it is really hard.)

Good luck!

Yeah, we had the crying over nowt scenario, I think it's just a phase they all go through. and the tireder they get, the more ridiculous the demands get.
I like the idea of the checklist. We did a similar "what are you taking up to bed with you tonight" so she had a little bit of responsibility in it all.

Bump
I know this is obvious but I have had to remind myself ofthis from time to time....

It really does help if you remind yourselfthat her crying is nothing to do with you. If you feel as though you are responsible and should be able to stop her being whiney then it ramps up your guilt and frustration and makes matters worse.

When she is whiney try and just acceptthat in the same way you would accept her having a temperature of being tired.

It is only a little thing and i know it is teaching grandma eggs scenario, but taking that emotional step back and just acceptingthat she is having a fussy stage can help a bit

I've scanned the thread, so I'm sorry if my ideas have already been suggested. My DD turns 3 in a couple of weeks. She does throw real tearful wobblies too, I've had more success lately by explaining things better to her on my reasonings. Just explaining everything better to her, warnings before we do things, go places, just communicating better with her. She then suddenly realises often I'm not being as unfair as she thinks I am. If she's tired she's far far worse.

Sticker charts for bedtime if she's a good girl?

I'm still working my way through this book, which has good ideas in it.

I've just spotted your post at 7.21. Since I bought one of these she's fallen asleep far quicker. As it creates more darkness than other blinds I have tried.

My daughter still has her dummy for sleep, haven't brought myself to do it yet, like you

I even say to her, now you must go to sleep or you'll be very tired tomorrow and we won't be able to do "X". You want to do "X" don't you? I suppose it's almost verging on blackmail but it works with my daughter I don't do it all the time but if she's being really troublsome it works.

Thanks for all the replies and sympathy. I think we are all just struggling with the upheaval of the move and impending baby.

Will try the check list tonight. I'm not sure if there is something wrong with her be we have just had continuous sobbing and refusing to eat through dinner, not quite sure over what, it was hard to make out, but I think she is going to have early milk and bed tonight. Think she might actually be under the weather today as she is whimpering, which is unlike her (despite the whining).

I've got the how to talk so kids will listen book on order from the library too, so hopefully I can learn some better strategies. I'm just not coping very well with the whole lot at the moment, am knackered and uncomfortable and stressed. No wonder poor DD is acting up!

She sounds tired and maybe coming down with something. I am known to ask my DD if she feels poorly and if she says yes, I bring out the Calpol. I sometimes suspect she's not really poorly but likes the medicine but 9 times out of 10 she does improve after the Calpol

Do you think she senses the iminent changes with the baby due? Could you have more special mummy and daughter time to bring her peace? Do some special things together?

It's not very mumsnettey but sending you a ((hug)) and a virtual slice of cake

Hi Bumperlicious just wondering how you got on today? And sending sympathies. We have had a horrendous bedtime again and ended with me just now rubbing my DS back to go to sleep. all routine out of window!! Oh dear, downstairs now for glass of wine. I can't even imagine how you are coping being PG aswell, and moving. Hope you had a better evening this evening. I have that book how to talk so kids will listen and always thought it was for older kids but will take a look at it, I guess as soon as they start talking it becomes relevant!!

She went to bed ok, was absolutely knackered. Not sure I can really even pin point what the over all issue is, and how long it has been going for but I know the bed time thing is one symptom.

I just don't know what to do about the crying when she can't get her own way, it's like she gets worked up about something then I'm sure she can't even remember what she is upset about

It's hard to tell whether it is the move, things have been stressful in the build up to that for a while. Before that it was dummy removal, plus there is the baby. We discuss it a lot but I'm not sure she understands the implications. It must just seem like a lot of uncertainty for her, bless her.

I did read the how to talk book about a year ago, but didn't feel like it was relevant then, but think it might be now. Plus, I've also ordered 'siblings without rivalry' to arm myself in advance!

I think a lot of this is about me and how I am dealing with things, i.e. not very well! Am very 'woman on the edge' at the moment. The atmosphere at work is crap (civil servant), the move (which was enforced as our landlord sold our flat), pregnancy, DH probably not having a job after October (another public sector worker). Before the move I was quite blase about the whole lot of it, now I feel like it is all crashing down over me in waves. No wonder DD is out of sorts.

Anyway, we'll see how she is tomorrow. She may have just been under the weather today. Will try and tackle this bed time thing long term though. God - then what do I do when I have another one I think that is a whole other thread!

I think they do thrive on routine, it's just the establishment of the routine that is difficult. Think I read somewhere on here that it usually takes 2 weeks of hellishness to change it. Also she is as you say picking up on your moods and worries. They never behave worse than when you are tired/emotional/cross/anxious. I think for example my DS knows I need to go away after bedtime and do things, therefore will do anything to keep me there. I think little steps forward are the main thing, and trying to see the positive things you've achieved in the day rather than all the things that went wrong. I put a potty in DS's room tonight, and although he cried and protested at every single stage of bedtime, he did actually use it twice, in his room (after throwing it over the gate twice) so I think at least that went right, although I did have to put his PJs back on afterwards. TBH I don't think it ever changes - you go from one 'phase' to the next. I'm sure you will cope when you have another - at least you already have a semblance of routine in place and have already made your decisions about how to handle various things, and will be more relaxed. Job stresses and life stresses aside, when you go in and look at them sleeping, makes it all seem worthwhile, eh?

Ooh Bumperlicious - my almost 3 year old DD cried in the bikeseat all the way home and for a good 20 mins after that today, as I didn't let her stop at the playpark to play. (On the whole, if she asks nicely, generally I would but she had just that second finished telling me she didn't feel very well.)

When crying didn't work she then starting saying You. Stop. Here. NOW. And throwing things about. Needless to say this also failed to produce the desired result.

Previously I have spent ages trying to jolly her up in this sort of situation and then get frustrated, but having seen the 'walk away and leave it' technique work really well wth a friend's daughter the other week I tried it. It took longer than I was comfortable with but eventually she just came and got on with something next to me.

I like Pagwatch's reminder that the crying isn't directly my fault. But I also really would like to get over to her that crying and stropping (especially combined with throwing small plastic dinsoaurs at mummy) are the two least effective ways of getting her own way.

I think over emotional drama queen tears might be normal for just turned 3 yr old girls. Mine certainly does it.
I also think they can be uncannily switched on to how you're feeling and it affects them. I am in v early stages of pregnancy at the moment so DD doesn't know but she is really clingy to me just from picking up that I am tired and sick I guess.
I would be tempted to cut her some slack at the moment. Not letting her get away with everything but just responding to some of the crying for no reason with a big cuddle rather than trying to get to the bottom of it.
We stay with DD for 5 mins after putting the light off. Not until she's totally asleep but until she's stopped thrashing around and that seems to prevent any calling back. We agreed this a few months back and it has really improved our evenings.

I recently had cause to have a conversation with a gp who remarked that children aged from 18 months - 4 have the worst delayed reactions from things like moving house.

It can cause all sorts of different behaviours, most of which are negative attention seeking. Talking to the child about their feelings can help a lot as can listening to them to resolve the little things which have suddenly become huge problems.

Reread this imagining you are your daughter sitting in her room...

"This morning she got herself really worked up because she couldn't find a particular toy and while I'd gotten up to change her because she was wet, I then wouldn't go back in to find the toy because she is supposed to wait for the light on her sheep to change (it was about 15 mins early, we are trying to be consistent with the sleep clock thing)."

Ask yourself whats more important your dd or the routine? It sounds to me as though the upheaval of moving has unsettled your dd more than you realise and she needs more reassurance from you at the moment.

mamadoc when you say you agreed the 5 minute thing do you mean with your DH or your DD? I'm just wondering how you approached that and did it work quickly or take a few nights for her to accept it? Also, if she cried when you left after 5 minutes did you return or leave her to cry it out?