Does DS need to be able to wipe his own bottom before he starts school?

[iwouldgoouttonight]

And if so how in god's name am I going to get him to do it??!

He still has at least two accidents a day, is very reluctant to say when he needs a wee or poo, especially when he is with new people. He'll be 4 in August and starts school in Sept. When I have broached the subject - 'why don't you have a go at wiping yourself', etc he is adamant he is not going to.

The toilet/potty thing is starting to become an issue because he's been in pants for about a year and still doesn't go for a day without an accident, so we're trying to back off a little and relax about it. But trying to get him to wipe his bottom is probably going to make it all into a big thing again.

We have tried all the usual rewards, stickers, praise, talking about other children using the toilet, etc - he watches other childrne at nursery go to the toilet while happily weeing in his pants!

Just have images of the poor mite at school with poo all over himself feeling a bit helpless.

is he having just urine based accidents or poo too?

Both.

does he get constipated?

No, he's rarely been constipated (only briefly when he was a baby). His poos seem normal, he does one a day - sometimes in the potty, sometimes in his pants. Once he's done one in his pants he'll normally tell me, but if he looks as though he is doing one and we ask if he needs to go to the toilet he'll nearly always say no and try to hold it in until we back off and then he'll do it in his pants. I can sometimes get him to use the potty if I distract him with other things while taking him there and while he's on it.

But trying to encourage him to wipe is going nowhere at the minute - he just wants me to do it!

copying and pasting from advice for children who have faecal incontinence due to with-holding/constipation-

'experts recommend that parents of children with poor bowel habits encourage their child to sit on the toilet four times each day (after meals and at bedtime) for 5 minutes. Give rewards for bowel movements and remember that it is important not to punish your child for incontinent episodes.

Some changes in eating habits may be necessary too. Your child should eat more high-fiber foods to soften stool, avoid dairy products if they cause constipation, and drink plenty of fluids every day, including water and juices like prune, grape, or apricot, which help prevent constipation. If necessary, the doctor may prescribe laxatives.

It may take several months to break the pattern of withholding stool and constipation. And episodes may occur again in the future. The key is to pay close attention to your child's bowel habits. Some warning signs to watch for include

• pain with bowel movements

• hard stool

• constipation

• refusal to go to the bathroom

• soiled underpants

• signs of holding back a bowel movement, like squatting, crossing the legs, or rocking back and forth'

i think at his age, he should be using the toilet, so i would try the advice to take him to the loo after each meal time and at bedtime. you could have some colourful kids toilet wipes there for him to use himself and a reward chard by the loo.

No medical problems we're aware of - just an incredibly stubborn little boy!

Is he looking forward to school? His soiling may be a way of postponing his school entry. I agree with those who said he needs to learn, I can remember when DD was around his age there was a boy in her class who inevitably soiled. He was most unpopular and was suspended for want of a better word, after two terms to get his continence sorted out. This was not in the UK I hasten to add.

starting kids at school at 4 it is always going to be tricky with toilet hygiene, lucky for me we are in Scotland and ds never started school until 5.5.

Although he was having very few accidents, at 5.5 he still wasn't a confident wiper, but he only goes once a day too and his body clock seems to have this timed to evenings so it wasnt actually a problem at school.

He's now just completed P1 and never pooed in school - which is probably a good thing as he likes a book to flick through when seated.......

not really any advice other than the usual bribery/rewards, but if your ds is going in the evenings it might not be a problem that needs to be resolved fully by August.

Have you thought about deferring his entry to school until after Easter?
If he's going in September, I'd be as open as possible with his teacher and TA and ask them what sort of help they will be able to give him.

DS1 is very similar - late August birthday. He doesn't do it every day - we keep having weeks where we think we have it cracked, but then we have poo in the pants again. We've been to the doctor about constipation in the past but then he seemed to be okay. I'm really worried about it - aiming to see the teacher about it before he starts in September. Good luck.

My DS will be 4 in a couple of weeks & starts school in January. I am out of my mind with the constant pooing in pants & never asking/going to the toilet. I've seen 3 health visitors & my GP, all have said that it will just 'click' one day. I find it so soul-destroying & get very upset about it. Socialising is very difficult & I am terrified he'll be the smelly kid at school. I feel I've tried everything; frequent trips to toilet, not mentioning it at all, star charts, rewards, bribing, increased fibre, daily lactulose. I just don't know what else to do.

Don't stress about the bottom wiping - some children of 4 or 5 just are not physically co-ordinated enough to wipe their bottoms effectively. A bit of poo left behind after wiping doesn't necessarily smell much if at all and will probably go unnoticed by other children of that age. And most children who have an issue with bottom wiping appear to be able to time their poos so as to need to go when they are at home.

However, frequent soiling at school is not going to go down well with the teachers (although I think most reception teachers expect to deal with a few such accidents within their class over the course of a year). You should definitely therefore speak to the teachers about it in advance and ask for advice.

The problem is, the more stressed your ds gets about it, the worse the soiling problem is likely to get, so introducing bottom wiping as a concept before he's even happy pooing on a toilet may be introducing a bit too much stress at this stage. I would concentrate on trying to sort out his soiling, myself, rather than expect him to achieve two stages in one go - unless, that is, he likes the idea of wiping his own bottom and it makes him feel more in control of the pooing process! (I doubt it, but you could try once to get him to wipe his own bottom, then back off if he hates the idea...).