How do i get my 4 year old to back off her baby brother a bit?

[woodlandfaerie]

She is in his face all the time.
I at times find it unbearable, she will not leave him alone.

Much of the time it is sweet, she loves him dearly, there is little jealousy there, but she will not let him be.

She is there pulling and pushing and picking him up, and turning him over, trying to feed him food, or his milk, she wakes him when he sleeps, she stops him from doing anything himself.

He does not mind for the most part, in fact, often, he loves it, and sometimes he does not.

My three areas of contention are:

Picking him up: She picks him up all the time, that is the biggest thing, if he is crawling, she picks him up and puts him back on his bottom, she pulls him around like he is one her teddies, i mean that literally. She lines him up with them and talks to him with them. I do find myself laughing (to myself of course) a lot of the time, but then a lot of the time DH and I get exasberated as she just will not listen and put him down when we ask. She knows not to pick him up, yet does it, she will not move away when we ask.

Sleep. She wakes up early and has so many times woken him up too. I am sure part of his early rising is to do with her setting it, as he used to sleep later. She bounces around him, she goes into his room when he is asleep. She does not 'mean' to, she wants to give him a kiss, or give him his teddy, or stroke his hair. But she will not understand to leave him alone.

Breastfeeding - again, she is there, talking to him, bouncing around, stroking his hair, playing with his fingers.

Any tips on getting her to just back away from him sometimes when we ask? I don't know how to do it effectively without damaging what is clearly a loving relationship between the two of them.

When i say 4, she is 4 next week, and he is 6 months. It has been like this since he was born.

If he doesn't mind, what is the issue?

I'm not being snarky, I just wonder whether you're trying to intefere when it's not necessary because it's annoying you on some level (maternal protectiveness?) rather than because it represents some sort of danger to him?

I can see that the sleep one is an issue, though. I'd be coming down harder on that one - do they share a room? - by at least making sure that he's not interrupted during naps, and perhaps you can use a star chart or something if she gets up nicely and quietly in the mornings?

But the rest of it, I'd honestly leave it be. It sounds like you're irritated by her on a personal level, not that you're worried about his welfare, and that's a shame.

tortoise it is because it bothers me, mostly, apart from her picking him up a lot of the time, as we have a solid wooden floor, and he is heavy and she is slight. She has dropped him before now, but no harm done.

But, it means I cannot leave the room, even for a moment, even with him clipped into his car seat as she can undo it, even in his play pen as she tried to get him out.

It means, when he cries as she is too rough it is hard to get her to stop, give him some space to recover.

She needs to do what she is asked, so that when it does concern safety issues, she knows what we say goes, wrt her brother.

And yes, it often means she is in my face with it. and its a lot to handle sometimes. That is a large part yes.

oh and don't think for a moment that this encompasses how I feel about her on a grander scale, absolutely not at all. She is my little girl and is for the most part absolutely wonderful with him, she shares, she cares, she loves him, she cuddles him, she makes him laugh, he makes her laugh and we do encourage all that and I don't want that to stop.

she does not annoy me. Sometimes, her behaviour around her brother does.

I have the same issue with DD1 who is three and a half and DD2 who is 8 months. It bothers DD2 though which means I am constantly intervening but that only seems to make DD1 worse. I am now trying to show by example, so I am picking DD2 up less and trying to show DD1 that DD2 will happily come to us to play if we give her a bit of space.

It is a bit exhausting but I fear that constant policing of siblings is our lot from now on?!! Hopefully as they get older they will listen more? I'll watch with interest in the hope that someone with more experience can offer some tips.

If she sees him as a dolly would a real dolly be a good substitute? Maybe a fancy one with hair to brush, clothes and nappies to change etc., that she could mother to her heart's content would mean she left her brother alone a bit more.

"You look after dolly while I feed baby"... then you're both mummies together.

Sorry, yes, that was clumsily phrased on my part, I didn't mean to imply that she annoyed you as a person - gosh, not in a million years would I imply that! - just that you are annoyed about the behaviour personally rather than because of him. I can imagine being annoyed for the same reasons you talk about - her being in your face all the time, and if it were me I'd project into his shoes and feel annoyed on his behalf about having her poke and prod.

Right, then it's a basis discipline issue, I suppose. Um - this is where I admit I don't have a 4 year old and hope someone else comes along.

(sometimes I forget I'm not the world's expert on everything )

chil she has several dollies! She likes to play 'school' or 'at the park' or something similar, and she likes to be 'teacher' DH asked her the other day which of her bears and dolls were her favourite, she pointed to one old heirloom and to DS .

beanstalk i think you are probably right, except when he is a bit older he can run away from her himself!

Then be a lot firmer with her on the danger points like unclipping him from a car seat or being rough with him. She knows very well that it's not allowed so she's being naughty if she carries on. It doesn't ruin the relationship in the slightest to say 'that's not acceptable' and 'leave him alone'... followed up with time-outs or whatever punishments you dish out normally. Look at it this way - if your baby was an animal, you wouldn't let your daughter pull its tail.

Yes, as he gets older he'll probably get his own back. But, in the meantime, DD has to behave the way you want her to. You're the boss.

yes, if she takes him from his seat, unclips his carseat, feeds him her food etc she is put on the step, but that, tbh is not so effective these days. We are starting to rewards as much as we can now, but of course there are times when punishment is required.

I am just tired. that is my problem. tired, need some space.

Oh, tiredness is a killer, I know.

Can you try and big up the nice stuff so 'ohhh, isn't that sweet?' when she is playing with him cutely and appropriately (dd loves it when I take a picture of the two of them cuddling etc), and then ignoring/removing when doing something unacceptable. I worked hard with my dd (who was 2.3 at the time, so sure your dd could understand) about reading ds's signals for when he is not enjoying it.

Unacceptable behaviour needs a consequence - removal from the situation in the first place (as you have been doing). Unclipping from car-seat, in the car? - blimey, my dd would get an earful. And whatever it took (removal of favourite toy etc).

But really, your dd sounds very sweet and loving her brother. From an outsider view, it sounds adorable.

adair oh no, not in the car, sorry i was not clear. She unclips him and tries to take him out when we have brought him in. No, if she did that in the car, they would not travel together!

and wrt her fave toy being removed, does not work! When she is on the step, with no distraction, she sits there and makes up stories with her pretend friends. She could entertain herself with no toys, or she loves all of her toys. She is happy with or without them

Your daughter sounds awfully sweet.

she is sweet, adorable in fact, but she runs on energy that has no stop button. She is hectic and fast in every single thing she does. She does not do calm. She gets up at 6am (today, 4:45am) and is running at 100% from the moment she wakes to the moment she goes to bed.

When it is in her brothers face, or mine with him, its too much sometimes.

wood the description of your DD fits mine too. Hard isn't it but really lovely too.
The punishments that works with mine is no TV time or no park were she plays with her freinds. (I am sure that no school would be a big punishment too but i can't get myself to do it .) guilt works too, I would say "I have been planning to do XYZ with you as you were such a nice girl, but now that you have behave so badly, didn't do as I asked..., we will not do it" I don't lie it is always some kind of treat I had planned and I try to do it later in the week anyway, like baking, bying a magasine, go by hairbands, see animals in the park, take the bus instead of walking... little things I know she likes.
Always keep what you have threatened and what you have promessed.
And repeat again and again anything about safety, NO carrying, NO unclipping, explain why too, in details if necessary. You can't be with them 24/7, so you have to be sure of her. My dad as a baby was carried by his cousin and dropped in the fire (about same age difference as yours)
For the sleeping problem, I told DD, that the baby needed sleep to grow properly, and we shouldn't wake her up. That I always let DD1 slept when she was a baby and that why she is so healthy and clever, and that if she wants to be able to play with DD2 more quickly she has to leave her alone untill she is screaming or talking to herself. same story with feeding. she took it quite well, and his telling her dad or visitor off now, if they disturb the baby while sleeping or feeding. she is a bit older though, but she was 4 when I was pregnant and manage to learn to let me sleep in the day. Smae kind of explantions.
hope it helps.

Sorry about all the typos hope you can still understand what I meant.

mama thank you for that post, really helpful. I do lots of them, but not all of them, like withdrawing treats such as going to the park. again, if I was to withdraw nursery she would be gutted, but not a good idea to start down that route .

I see them together, like now, she is sat behind him so he does not fall and hit his head, she is eating an apple, and he is flaying his arms about going 'te tetete te, atee atee' and bouncing on his bottom, they are both watchin tom and jerry. It is so natural and wonderful that I feel guilty that 10 mins ago I was telling her to leave him alone so vehemently and feeling distinctly narked by her lack of listening.

I must admit that withdrawing park and TV are punishment for me too so it is hard but it works, and now that she knows that I mean it, only threatening works I barely do it anymore. They sound lovely.

My four year old is exactly like this with ds, who is now 20 months. She still constantly tries to pick him up, despite me telling her off etc. He is so fed up with up now that he just pushes her away. He'll soon be bigger then her so I think she'll learn quite soon that it's not a good idea to pick him up all the time.

We had a very similar situation with dd and ds - smaller age gap as she was 2.5 when he was born but she has been in his face since the day he was born. It was less of a worry as she couldn't pick him up etc but we were firm about some things (don't give him your food, don't wake him when he's asleep - not that he did much of that!) and let her get on with the rest of it. 3 years on they have a very very close bond which really is lovely to see, and now he just slaps her if she's too full on with him. But I am glad I let her carry on loving him because although it was a pain at times it is now definitely a very sweet thing to watch.

I think you need to involve her in ways that are actually helpful.

Make her his protector, let her tell people what he can and cant eat yet. Let her explain that you have to sssh! when babies are sleeping, that you must never pull babies their arms can break etc.

She may drive you mad with the bossiness, but she will then model good behaviour

littleducks oh she is top in the bossy stakes! She loves telling people they can't feed him this/that! But you are right, we shall encourage the natural caringness she has for him, and try to bring that out so she gives him the space she tells others he needs!

She appears to be gonig through a 'manic' phase atm anyway, coinciding with the hot weather? not sure, but the two together are exacerbated i think, and I am hot and bothered, and tired, so I am trying to be calmer and keep her involved. AND give her as much me and her time as I can too, so it is ok to ask for some space when he is feeding etc as it is not the only attention she gets from me.