This is about bedwetting but is not a 'typical' problem, IYSWIM...

[notnowbernard]

DD is 6.6. She's had periods of being dry at night (longest about 10 weeks with the odd wet night) but generally has wet the bed about 3-4 times a week

We don't 'lift' her but do wake her and she gets up and walks to the loo to do a wee

But here's the thing: she goes to bed about 7-7.30. If she's not woken by about 9.30pm at the latest, she'll probably have wet the bed (despite weeing before bed). But will then stay dry until she wakes the next morning (normally about 7.30am)

So is effectively going about 10hrs a night being dry

Any advice on how to crack this one? We are doing the usual things (though I really don't think she drinks enough during the day at school)
TIA

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Could it be that she wets the bed when in a deep sleep? (or whatever the type of sleep in the first two hours is called?)

DS gets night terrors within a couple of hours of falling asleep. They don't happen every night but if we get past the third hour, then we know they won't happen. I looked it up and its related to the type of sleep.

What about waking to go to the toilet about an hour after going to bed?

I have wondered that, too - that she is just so deeply asleep initially that she doesn't wake up to go

It only seems to be in the first phase of sleep it happens - sometimes she will wake in the middle of the night to go without wetting, but hardly ever in the first couple of hours

Just not sure what to do - whether to carry on waking her or not

No drinks in the last hour before bed and somehow get her to make sure her bladder is empty before lying down to go to sleep?? I say somehow but I do not know what that "somehow" actually is!

Already do the no-drink thing 1.5 hrs before bed (but am encouraging fluids in the day)

And she wees immediately before bed

Just wondering.. does she go to sleep at 7 -7:30 or just to bed? What I am wondering is if she keeps herself awake until exhausted and then can't wake herself up to go to the loo?

The majority of the time she falls asleep almost straight away

If she's still awake we'll encourage her to try another wee (she will do one sometimes - but still may go on to wet an hour or so later)

She is a VERY deep sleeper

I really do not know the answer. It seems wrong to wake them and not a long term solution, but I can'#t see what else you can do.

I knew someone once who slept in a double bed with his two brothers until they grew up (I think he left home at 21). One of the brothers frequently wet the bed, even when he was 20. His brothers did everything they could to get him to stop (for obvious reasons!) but he just did. I guess some people grew out of it at a young age, others take longer (like your daughter) and a few very unlucky people do it their whole lives.

Thanks for your input, Claire

I live in hope that she will have outgrown it by her 21st though

Hello!

If she's weeing very soon after going to sleep it's possible that she's lacking vasopressin. Even though she has gone to sleep her kidneys aren't getting the message to go to sleep as well and are producing as much urine as in the daytime.

If you have a sympathetic GP you could ask for Desmopressin (Desmomelts are the easiest way to take it, it's a small tablet that melts under the tongue). However many GPs won't prescribe it unless you have been recommended it by an enuresis clinic, and they won't refer you to that until the child is at least 7!

However I was taught that if a child seems to have low vasopressin even from the age of 5 they can benefit from Desmo, however getting it prescribed isn't easy.

Remember that milk is a food in terms of digestion, so will be 'converted' to fluid more slowly than water-based drinks. Make sure she's not having milk, hot chocolate, yoghurts, ice cream etc for 1-2 hours before bedtime.

She may also have a lack of arousability ie heavy sleeper, and you could try an alarm (you can buy them online, Malem make the best ones IMO) which may wake her as she starts to wet.

Hope that helps a bit.

Sidge, thankyou very much

I do have a lovely GP who has referred her (she is still 6.6 but he said it will do no harm to get going with it, esp as waiting list could be long)

So the only wetting during initial part of sleep is significant then? (she never wets the bed after being woken to wee) Maybe they will recommend the meds then...

Would you advise continuing to wake for now until we see someone?

(Heavily pg and up weeing a million times a night myself, could do without wet beds in the bargain )

Your post was v helpful, btw, thanks for seeking out the thread!

I can't help you with your specific problem but just to say I have a DS who wet the bed pretty much every night until just before his 7th birthday. He did huge wees and we couldn't see how to get him to stop. He was in nappies until he was 6 as the 'night pants' couldn't contain the amount! We had protective sheets but mattresses and duvets were getting wrecked. Lifting him was too late sometimes and other times he was wet by the morning despite being lifted a couple of times in the night.

Being pg and with a toddler in nappies, I couldn't bear the thought of having 3 wee-ers in the house. So we bought a hypnotherapy CD and played it for 3 nights and it worked! He wet the bed a couple more times over the next few months and that was it.

I had been quite sceptical about the hypnotherapy idea - mainly because I thought it must be a physical/biological thing (because of the quantity) but I really do think it worked.

No problem

The early wetting is significant, it means that a lack of vasopressin is more likely. Where there are normal vasopressin levels the volume of urine is reduced soon after falling asleep, so the bladder fills more slowly. If vasopressin is low the bladder fills more quickly with large volumes of dilute urine. A key sign of possibly needing desmo is large volumes of weak/dilute urine, usually within 3 hours of going to sleep.

If a child wets later in the night (ie the early hours of the morning) then the bladder has continued to fill slowly as it does for all of us overnight. However whereas we will wake with a full bladder or hold on to it until the morning a child may wet because they just don't wake, or because the bladder is weak and flabby. The not waking can usually be remedied by using an alarm.

That's why daytime bladder training is so important - plenty of drinks with regular (2-3 hourly) toileting. A strong toned bladder can hold more wee for longer.

I would continue to wake her if you can, before you go to bed. Make sure she is really awake though and not sleepwalking to the loo as otherwise you are reinforcing the 'wee whilst asleep' message. That's why lifting, whilst it can achieve a dry bed, doesn't actually promote night dryness as the brain isn't getting the 'wake up your bladder is full!' message.

Hope you get sorted soon.

Thanks again

Will continue to wake her and wait for referral to come through... feel armed with info now, cheers Sidge!

Thanks everyone else too

Hi Sidge - you seem quite knowledgeable about all this, so I hope you don't mind if I ask you a question.

It's not a problem but just something I wondered about - the 2 children I nanny for (4 & 6) don't usually have a wee in the morning until they have been up for ½ an hour, sometimes even an hour. They drink plenty during the day and though I don't know what they drink before bed they have water or apple juice with supper at 5.30pm and go to bed at 7. Everyone I know needs a wee as sson as they get out of bed. Is there a reason for this???

Um, I would guess they either have great bladder control or have had a limited fluid intake the last couple of hours before bed.

Fluids should only really be restricted for an hour or so before sleeping, and only really for children that wet overnight.

Also they could need encouraging to wee in the morning. Some children (and adults) can hold on for an hour or two after waking but it's healthier to empty the bladder when you get up.

Thanks sidge They do often need a reminder to go and have a wee before eating breakfast.

nnb my dd is 5.6 and wets every night without fail. She is getting more conscious of nappies so we decided to try without nappies this week. We encouraged more daytime fluids, stopped an hour before bed then weed just before bed. Inside of 2 hours the bed was soaking.
Am finding this thread really helpful in understanding it better, thanks

Northender it sounds like she may not be quite ready to be dry yet. If she wet so early in the evening she may need nappies or pullups a bit longer. In an average reception class of 4-5 year olds 5 will still be in night-time nappies and 3-4 in an average Year One class so she's not the only one!

Otherwise you could try waking her two hours after going to sleep to use the loo, and waterproof the whole bed and see how it goes. If she is wet all night every night leave it a bit longer.

Also have bedwetting experience in this house!

We have been recommended to 'double void' which means to get DC to wee twice before bed eg after doing teeth, get into bed for a story and very last thing before lights out to go and wee again to ensure bladder is properly emptied before sleeping.

I can also recommend increasing drinks during the day and making sure most of them are earlier on. DS has 2 full drinks (pint in total) before we leave for school at 8.30am and should have drunk the equivalent of another 2 pints by the time he finishes school which is most of his ligquid intake for the day so he obviosloy still drinks if thirsty after school but not necessarily full cups.