Poo misery

[Acinonyx]

I am absolutely at my wits end with my poo-witholding nealry 5 yr-old dd. I can't get her to take movicol at all. I have sent a message to the specialist we saw last year - but we seen a lot of drs and the only treatment ever suggested is laxatives and more laxatives. That is very difficult to manage now she is at school.

Has anyone ever got any other kind of treatment to address the actual witholding behaviour? With dd, the problem is not painful poos - she just doesn't like the normal sensation and is fantastically, absurdly stubborn about it.

I have explained the mechanics. I have tried every manner of bribery. I am absolutely and totally at my wits end!

No advice I'm afraid, just wishing you luck. Went through this for a year when my daughter was around 3 yrs, and know how stressful it is.

My daughter was on 3 lots of lactulose a day, and still managed to go a week between poos.

After trying various bribes, reading stories about poo, letting her watch me poo what worked in the end was bribing with kinder surprise eggs, most bizarre as no other bribes had worked.

Hope someone suggests something that works for you, I think a 5 yr old might be even harder to convince than a 3 yr old!

The mechanical end is that it gets VERY big and difficult to get out - it gets compacted which we need to avoid. She also has a ton of messy leakages whcih are a nightmare, espeically at school/childcare etc.

I would love to see a behvioural therapist of some kind but I ahve been unable to find a gp who will refer us - or even knows anyone to refer us to. I'm hoping her specialist might but I'm not confident - they seemt o think if we can 'make her' poo often enough the behviour will just sort itself out. That doesn't seem to have worked for us though. I just wondered if anyone ever has actually been referred for behavioural therapy - so I can know whether it is EVER an option.

hmmsleep - choclate bribery worked very well for a while but she is definielty harder to bribe or persuade now than she was then. We also went through a kinder egg phase. Milk chocolate is a current favourite.

i think i posted on your other post about this, certainly a similar one anyway, and I would makje an appt to see your GP and I would INSIST on having a referral to a behavioural therapist or similar

it isn't getting better, she isn't responding to medicating enough to get things moving.... so you need to go onto the next step

take your dh or someoen with you if you think you'll need some back-up, but go in and demand what your child needs

I think that's right thisyesterday. I also think that even if the therapist says and does the same things we've done at home - she might respond more to an outside authority - rather like the way she reads for her teacher!

dh has his head in the sand on this one - I am on my own with this one

yes, and the thing is even if a therapist just repeats what you've already been told then at least you know you're doing what needs to be done
until you see one you'll always be wondering if you could be doing anything differently.

i suspect that for most children medicating works, but your dd must be like me, stubborn to the core!

i am one of the most non-confrontational people ever really (in real life anyway) but we're pushing for an assessment for ds1 right now and after yet another pointless meeting at school today I did end up basucally saying "i WANT this referral, and I will do anything I need to do to get it. i'm not prepared to wait until things are very bad for him before anyone acts. I want it done now"

sometimes you just have to lay it down and insist on it. I don't know if it's the same but as an adult if you go and ask for a referral I am pretty sure that by law they have to do it for you.... it might be the same for kids too?

Are you giving her plenty of fruit (raisins & dried apricots are especially good) and also fluids during the day to help with the constipation? Cut down on the fibre a bit ie weetabix. Surely then she can't fight the physics of it all then as she'll have to go at some point. Can you jazz up the toilet in any way to entise her ie lots of books to read whilst sat on there and give her some alone time. Hmm thinks this is where the phrase anally retentive comes from...

It depends what you asking for ert referral. My understanding is that neither the nhs (nor bupa) would pay for behavioural therapy for this as it is not one of the recognised conditions they refer kids for. I will look into going privately.

Would she try a potty (I know she is very grown up for one). But there is less of a 'coming away' sensation low to the ground, squatting. And you need to keep at it to 'reelastic' the gut. (My ds needed liquid paraffin to 'oil' him, I think you need to check with a gp if it would be OK, for under 12's - I'm not in the UK so don't know if it's over the counter).

She definitley prefers a chair type potty which she has at home. She has definitley stretched her bowel which is very worrying.

It will go back - my ds was a terror for withholding. (He is 18 now, but still uses our ensuite with bedroom and bathroom doors closed, listening to ipod...)

My DD had this problem for three years. Three long years. Oh my goodness, we went through everything. Withholding, leakages every half an hour, poo everywhere ( except where it was supposed to be ). For three years. I'm afraid I have no advice for you, which I'm sure isn't what you wanted to hear. Almost exactly three years after it started, it stopped. Three days before she was due to start Year 1 at school. She was nearly 6. She still takes a sachet of movicol every day though, and can't see that stopping soon. I have no idea why she decided to stop witholding, but I'm SO happy that she did. I can't believe we lived like that for three years. Good luck to you, and I hope you have a positive outcome, like we did, sooner rather than later.

Referral to CAHMS was going to be the next step for us, btw.

yes, get her referred to CAHMS, they may be able to help, and you'd def be able to insist on a referral to them

(What is CAHMS, it is mentioned on Mumsnet and I can't work out the initials!) We found the worst thing was the several days to build up to a poo, the cross child who must have had a sore tummy, the wondering when it would come. It was like an overdue birth!

Child and Mental Health services
Best of luck xx

Thanks! It will be sorted

new to this but wanted to let you know about sodium picosulfate. My son (five) has been witholding for 3 years now. However in past 6 months afternumerous peditrician apts which were just talking about his problem they prescribed this medicine.

it is very strong and they simply can not control their bowel movements depending on the dosage. takes a while to get that correct so expect lots of mess but when do get it right then it means the stool is softer so none of the pain which they are so used to when been holding in poo for so long.

my son has turned a corner with this even onve going on his own, his behaviour is also simproved dramatically as no longer in pain or in a constant battle between us over when he is going to go.

makes a nice change not having to go out prepared with spare undies, trousers etc just in case an accident happens.

do sometimes have off days but just a alsight increase gets him moving again.

oh also takes a movicol sachet each day.

hope this gives you something else to mention to your doctor who will hopefully help by prescribing it.

as always it may help for you knowing that someone else goes through same things as it can be soul destroying when you think you are the only one.

Thanks Celery and Angel. How did school handle things - were there problems with accidents at school?

dd doesn't have any pain - she just doesn't like the normal sensation. She has lactulose to stop it getting too hard. He attitude seems to be that if we would only leave her alone she would never ahve to poo again and everything would be fine

The speicialist has got back to me with a recommendation for a clinic our gp could refer her to, so that's something.

I am somewhat consumed with the poo issue at the moment. Absolutely nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see a steaming pile of poo in that potty!

Try mixing the Movicol into juice or milk, I had to give my DD movicol in her breakfast cereal to get her to take it, she was diagnosed with chronic constipation we she was two, she is now four and doesnt need to take it any more

school were initially helpful giving him a chart from when had no accidents at beginning of year but now rubbish.

he refuses to go to toilet at school so sometimes has had accidents which have sat in his pants all day!!

how a teacher can go past him without smelling i don't know as i can tell moment we are together.

however when he was in nuresery they were extremely helpful just think its down to the attitude of what makes that teacher tick!!

fingers crossed your clinic works out well for you both.

poo probably something we never talked about ebfore kids now an hourly issue!!!

Once saw something similar to this on embarrassing bodies:kids and the little girl went for behaviour therapy and it all got sorted in the end.
Good luck to all of you xx

She won't take it in juice or milk or with cereal [sigh]

Yes, I don't know how anyone could not realise at once that she's had an accident. I think people just don't want to know.

No-one has ever wanted to actually address the behviour which is very frustrating.