5 month old will only sleep after breastfeeding... help!

[JoInScotland]

Hello again folks, I posted about a fortnight ago because my son was 4.5 months old then and would only sleep for 90 minutes to 2 hours at night, and was waking all night long. Someone suggested he was overly tired, and since then I've made sure he gets an opportunity of a nap after he's been awake for 2 hours... usually after 2.5 or at most 3 hours, he will nap, but now they are only short cat-naps of one sleep cycle, about 20-25 minutes. He has about 4 or 5 of these a day.

Our evening routine is: 6pm dinner, 7:15 or 7:30 bathtime, then upstairs to bed to breastfeed and sleep. Usually he's asleep at 8:15. It used to be 9:30 or 10pm.

The trouble is, even if I have expressed breastmilk, DS thinks he needs to breastfeed to sleep. He was quite upset today at 4pm, I could tell he was tired and hungry, I offered him some breastmilk because he was playing and kicking and not feeding while my left breast was about to explode so I had expressed it. He sort of drank it, but wasn't too interested. He started rooting around, and as soon as I put him on the breast, his eyes began to roll back into his head, he quietened down, and then went to sleep for 30 minutes.

I understand that many people want to get the baby to learn to fall asleep, and put him/her into the cot when almost asleep but not quite. HOW DO YOU DO THIS? Also, how does a child who can fall asleep by themselves get the last feed of the evening in? We are stymied. This seems to be the holy grail, and DS isn't interested. He likes his bath/boob/bed routine and doesn't want to change. He is 5 months old tomorrow. Please help with your advice and stories of what you tried! (What worked and what didn't work!

Just wanted to let you know you're not on your own - I am breastfeeding 5.5 month old dd to sleep right now. Not quite sure what the answer is to be honest (maybe someone will come along later and tell us) but I am not stressing over it too much. ds1 was similar and I was so concerned about following this let them settle by themselves advice that ds would end up really distressed and in turn I would get stressed. ds2 settled himself from birth (just different personality I think). With dd at the moment I'm just thinking that she is still very little and hoping that she will grow out of it.

DD who is 2 weeks off her first birthday is still fed to sleep every night. I am well aware that I am storing up trouble for myself (especially as DC2 is due in November!!) but, for me, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Once she's down, at 7pm, we rarely hear from her again until 5:30am/6am. I know she stirs in the night, because I hear her crashing around in her cot, but she self-settles just fine.

Obviously something is going to have to change once DC2 is here, but it'll happen when it happens...

I know that's not helpful, but just wanted to say, you could just go on doing what you're doing, if it suits you to do that...

ok, do you mind feeding him to sleep?

if not then just leave things be. I was complaining the other dayt because my 1 yr old WON'T feed to sleep lol. I love having a guaranteed way to get him to sleep tbh.

am not really sure why people seem to be so obsessed with getting babies to fall asleep by themselves when it's sooo much easier to just feed them to sleep.

thisisyesterday I think I was obsessed about trying to get ds1 to fall asleep by himself because it was in advice books that this is what should be done to avoid making a rod for your own back. From my own experience though I think I was making things much more difficult for myself by trying to follow that advice and feel much more comfortable and relaxed with what I'm doing with dd. I really don't think it matters as much as they make out it does in the books.

I bf my dd when she's tred & she sleeps in my arms or cosleep. imho everything is good about bf to sleep - nice & cosy, relaxing. My older ones sleep in their beds no problem.

My nearly 4 month old only ever sleeps when bf or in the car. Like yours, he takes the bottle but is ttotally underwhelmed. I've extended mat leave to buy myself time so that i can worry about ut after the semmer hols....

My DD was exactly the same and we did pick up put down from the baby whisperer.

It is hard work for the first few days but DD was sleeping through within a week (that wasn't the aim for us - we just had such terrible problems getting her to sleep we had to do something).

No one who has ever asked for help with this has ever taken me up on my advice so it obviously isn't for everyone!

My DS was the same but around 5/6 months he showed signs of self-settling.

You need to give your DS the chance to self settle if you want to teach it gradually. Try moving the routine earlier by 30 mins so that you're feeding before DS normally falls asleep. If he passes out quickly on the boob, move it earlier still as it means his "sleep window" is during the feed. You want to aim for the feed to finish with him drowsy and relaxed. Then put in cot and pat to sleep. Sometimes you might have to feed again, but it will get better.

We did this and gradually DS got to the stage where he could be put down awake and drift off. However if he's overtired, ill or teething he still needs feeding to sleep which is fine by me.

We tried pick up put down for three nights but it was hell and felt like we were trying to break DS's spirit so called a halt.

Just a quick one on naps - maybe try napping after 90 mins so he's asleep once the two hours are up? Even less for the first nap of the day. It's better if you watch your baby not the clock so if he looks tired after 60 mins then try and nap! 20 min cat naps sound likes he's still overtired.

Cupofcoffee- I think you're completely right re childcare books. It was really well put by Helen Ball in her recent webchat:

"Most so-called ?sleep problems? in children are problems of parental expectation, not child sleep. ... But you don?t make a living as an author of books on sleep by telling people their children don?t have sleep problems ?"

so true madamestripes

i've said it before and i'll say it again, my ds2 was the most horrendous sleeper. averaging 45mins-1.5 hours MAX until he was around 9 or 10 months old

it was absolutely killing me, but what helped in the end was accepting that he was a little baby. he was doing what he had to do, and it was far easier for ME to change, than to try and make him change

cue lots of very early nights, many favours asked from friends and family, dp getting up early so i could sleep in a bit.... and it did get better.
he's 2.5 now and sleeps beautifully

aviatrix I understand what you mean. I was discussing this with DP tonight. I said that DS is only little and personally I don't understand the obsession with a "sleep routine" in that, it seems that babies are meant to be with their mothers/parents all night long. It would be strange, in my opinion, for a 5 month old to be not to bothered if Mum were there or not as she/he drifts off. DS's cot is pushed up beside our bed so I just reach over to sooth him when he has a nightmare, and bring him into our bed to feed. It's co-sleeping without giving up vital space in our bed, as it were.

It's just that so many people speak about this, and how it is making a rod for your back if they don't learn to soothe themselves and I agree with all that, it's terrible to see a toddler who can't calm themselves down a bit.... but DS is only just 5 months old. And I wonder what the big deal is, if there is in fact a big deal, and what (if anything) we are doing "wrong".

Igglybuff Thanks so much for this advice. We will try an earlier window... to be honest yesterday was too early I think, and he played around, kicking and giggling until 9:30. Again, tonight he nodded off at 8pm as I was running the bath, and even though he only slept for 2 minutes, he absolutely would not settle at 8:15, and only fell asleep at 9:30. That seems to be his preferred time, if we don't get our act together and offer him an early bath. It means no evening time together for DP and I however.

i would say this is normal, and my ds would only fall asleep bfing, he was still doing this at 18 months! i tried all sorts , read every book, but would never have done anything that involved crying so this was the easiest way. i wanted to stop bfing at 18 months (he was dairy intolerant so didn't have alot of options), but by then he was such a boob monster that it took til 22 months, and by then i was quite strict and refused point blank in the night and in the day often had to bribe with chocolate buttons.
he still is obsessed with bosoms at 26 months and constantly has his hand down my bra!

jo we were in a similar position with no evenings but now DS goes to bed at 6.30/7pm which is nice! We used to try around 7/8 and he'd drift off thenwake and not settle til half 9/10! We got there by watching him for tiredness andrealising he needed bed about 2 hours after his afternoon nap. Sometimes it meant bath at half 5 but hey ho. Now he's dropping his afternoon nap but taking longer lunchtimes ones of over an hour without help which is an improvement

You're right - your baby is so little and needs his mum. I find that when we have bad nights, it's actually easier if I feed back to sleep instead of fighting it. although it's hard to remember that at 5am when I've got up for the 5th time!!! (I hasten to add it's not always like that - we do get the odd 5+ hr stretch)

I haven't read all the responses, so I apolgise if someone has said this or you've already said this idea/ ideas are not for you. But with my DCs by about 4-5 months I realised that the current mode operandi was not doable anymore and I'd have to do a bit of gentle sleep training so they'd learn to self settle to sleep better. I used the baby whisperer PUPD method with my first child and it worked brilliantly. With my second child that didn't work so well and I ended up going in every 5 mins and settling and leaving again. I would say that by 5 months my children were moving to napping at about 8 or 9am (depending on when they woke), nap again at about 12 ish and nap again about 3pm and then bedtime at 7pm. Naps were only 45 mins at this stage in the day usually. But every child is different. Once they moved to napping at 10.30am and 3pm only, the morning nap lengthened. They now both nap brilliantly even my 2.10 yr old still has one nap a day and my 17 month old still has a big nap every day too and they both go down easily. It does get better.

There are plenty of people out there who co sleep and feed to sleep for a long long time after 5 months but for me I needed my sleep and needed my DCs to sleep well too for my sanity.

Night time they both had already started teething by this age and I'd always offer bonjela before a feed at night (and before a nap in the day), then after they would go back to sleep with numb gums and sleep for 3 hours until the teething gel wore off at night. If it was really bad, I'd break out the calpol. But I admit my 2 did teethe early. My son has nearly all his teeth already at 17 months as did his sister.

Of course this may all be a blip and a growth spurt and they'll settle down in a few days you never know?

I suspect this message is full of typos as I've got to rush next door

DS is 18m and still feeds to sleep. He will settle without it for DH, but not for me, because he knows my breasts are there

He pats my chest to be fed and is still settled back in the night with a feed sometimes, although I do try to just replace dummy/lie him down when I can.

wot igglybuff and madame said.

worry not.

delatch when drowsy so DC can finish off going to sleep in bed. if he throws a wobbly put him again and give him another go - gentle practice basically...

nature wouldn't have made something unbelieveably easy if we were not meant to do it. i mean, seriously, the babies love it - its ideal.

fwiw, he will prob grow out of it. my ds only does it half the time now... (8mo) the rest of the time i have to go in and out to settle him or he plays and falls asleep... all those books talking about rods for own back were full of sh*te!

plenty of time for gentle sleep training and leaving them to it when they are 7/8 months imo. for example, one day,your DS won't fall asleep on boob and you wll put him down after a big cuddle, say goodnight/time for sleep, and leave, and then he will make a fuss and you can start teaching him it is ok to sleep in his bed. if you do lots of gentle practice with him doing the last bit of falling asleep in his cot now, he will know how to do it when the time comes!!!

it depends entirely on how you feel about it. i was stressed out because of the stupid books but actually chuck the books out the window and everyone's a winner - including your DS .

my DS also only took - 45 mins at a time - until around 7 months when he just chilled out and started sleeping longer during the day - 1.5-2hrs at lunch yeehaa

oh and i agree put him to bed MUCH earlier - like 2 hour after last nap - my DS sometimes in bed asleep by 6pm. if i go later (which I have tried to get him to wake later - 6am) he take AAAGGEEES to settle!

that 2 minute sleep while running his bath will completely mess up him settling btw (imho!)... don't let him fall asleep!

Just read my post back and terrible typos.

Wot Ruby said - the 2 minute drift off probably indicates that your DS wants to go to bed then...