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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Is it OK to do this - reassurance needed!

24 replies

sparklingchampagne · 14/06/2010 18:55

Hello
DD is 5 (just) and has increasingly become more and more difficult at bedtimes.
We have a bedtime routine, but every night is a battle. I put her in bed at 7, and she gets up to go to the loo, come downstairs etc. We have tried everything - bribing, reward charts, taking stuff away from her - but nothing works! She just says sleep is boring and she doesn't want to do it.
Now, I have had enough, because I put her to bed at 7pm, and the next two hours are spent chasing her round the house to get her back to bed, or running up to her room because she is shouting 'MUMMY' at the top of her voice (she's not distressed in any way, has a right giggle when I go up
SO
tonight I have said 'no more' and have told her that she can shout Mummy as many times as she likes, I am not going up there. If she gets out of bed, I am putting her back there without speaking to her.
In the back of my mind though there is a voice saying 'you shouldn't leave a child to cry.' Can someone knock some sense into me - surely you shouldn't leave a baby to cry - a 5 year old being naughty is OK - or not???
Thank you xx

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SaliMali1 · 14/06/2010 19:05

she is 5and testing you I would leave her if youi are happy to do that.

squeaver · 14/06/2010 19:07

That's the right thing to do. She's not a baby, she's 5. You'll have to do it loads tonight, though, so be prepared.

compo · 14/06/2010 19:08

You should have done that from the start!
Sorry not vety helpful now , lol
mine know not to come downstairs unless someone is dying
you need to toughen up, zero tolerance, she gets one trip to the loo, one glass of water and that's it, she has to stay in her room and be quiet

meandjoe · 14/06/2010 19:10

Yes it's OK, she is pushing you and you need to make it pefectly clear where the boundaries lie. Leaving a distressed baby to cry is very different to teaching a 5 yr old that enough is enough. You have to be really consistant though! Good luck.

sockonmyhead · 14/06/2010 19:10

is she actually tired at 7? Would she be better if she was allowed to stay up a little later?

DS is 5 and he lies in bed listening to a story cd until he is ready to fall asleep, otherwise he would do what your DD is doing. He goes to bed about 7 when he is tired but isn't ready to fall asleep straight away, he needs to chill out a bit first.

piscesmoon · 14/06/2010 19:14

A 5 yr old is old enough not to have that fuss. It sounds to me as if she isn't ready to go to bed. I would discuss it with her.
I used to tell mine that the evening was my time. I did nice things in the day with them and then it was my turn for peace and quiet.
Agree a bedtime routine e.g. she might like a game of something before she goes to bed. Tell you will put it back to 7.30 but then she will go to bed. Give her a choice, say that now she is a big girl she can look at books by herself for half an hour, or listen to a story CD.
If she doesn't act like a big girl and stay in the room it will be back to 7pm.
If she is really difficult and is running around the house etc I would ignore her in the day and if she goes to ballet or a friends or similar-don't take her and then say in surprise that you didn't get your time so you are not doing her time. Don't get cross or into an argument-just state a fact. She should get the message-eventually.

Mousey84 · 14/06/2010 19:14

Follow through - maybe stay upstairs for a bit, otherwise she will make noise so you know shes up, and you will have to go up to put her to bed. But do not talk or make any eye contact with her. Put away laundry or something that keeps you busy, so she doesnt think you are up there for her. If you have an ipod or walkman or something, put it on. Seem unaffected if she gets out of bed, just put her back in.

sockonmyhead · 14/06/2010 19:14

sorry totally missed the point of your OP, of course it's ok to leave her if you can put up with hearing her!

Original poster

sparklingchampagne · 14/06/2010 19:15

Thank you.
We've tried letting her listen to CDs in bed - but she still runs around.
Totally agree with you re. one glass of water, one wee and she stays in her room - that's what I want (!) but HOW to keep her in there?
I'm going on her needing to go to bed at 7pm because a) her eyelids droop as she's watching her bedtime programme, and b) she has to be woken up in the morning and is really tired and grumpy!
I can't think of HOW to keep her in her room - we've tried threats, rewards, promises, taking things away etc etc - and nothing has worked. It's doing my head in!!!!
xx

OP posts:

Original poster

sparklingchampagne · 14/06/2010 19:20

Honestly - it's mad!
She LOVES ballet, so we've done the 'you won't go to ballet' many times - and she's just ended up not going to ballet. She's gutted when we say she can't go cos she didn't go to bed, cries and cries.
So I thought, right, next Friday she'll remember this and go to bed. And the next Friday - racing around, shouting and screaming - did the no ballet thing and she didn't care - until the next morning when she was gutted again cos she couldn't go. . .
It's like her not going to bed overrides ANY reward/sanction/whatever!

OP posts:

piscesmoon · 14/06/2010 19:22

The thing is that she has got away with it for so long. I was just really fierce the first time with 'it is bedtime-you do not get out of bed.'
Since she just gets out -try mousey's way.
Avoid eye contact-act as if she is really boring.

sockonmyhead · 14/06/2010 19:23

i'm feeling a bit soppy tonight, but could she maybe just want a bit of a hug? I know you don't want to have to cuddle her to sleep every night but maybe she is stressed about something and this is how she is showing it.

LynetteScavo · 14/06/2010 19:26

Ignor her.

Seh will play merry hell for a few nights, then get bored. At worst, eventually when she gets bored, she will play in her room by herself when she is tired.

Just make sure she is really tired before you put her to bed.

My DD is the same age, and not ready to sleep untill 8pm. but then sleeps through until 7pm.

LynetteScavo · 14/06/2010 19:29

Well, you have 2 choices, either you just leave her, or snuggle her to sleep every night.

WE always snuggled DS1 (untill he was about 8)

and DS2 until he was about 5.

DD sometimes needs a snuggle, but often manages to sleep by herself.

She went through a phase when she was 3 off coming downstairs repeatedly, and in the end we gave up and let her watch TV with us until she fell asleep.
What ever works for you.

thisisyesterday · 14/06/2010 19:30

i was like that as a child. i just didn't really need much sleep.
i didn't run around or anmything cos i[d have got a smack.. but i did just lie upstairs reading or playing or whatever

so, i would try putting bedtime back to maybe 8?
having a really, really good wind-down before bed. no television. just a nice warm milk, brush her hair, lots of stories etc
then leave her with a book to look at and say "right, it IS bedtime now. you don't have to go to sleep, but you DO have to stay quiet. if you get bored you can look at a book"

thisisyesterday · 14/06/2010 19:32

i would cut out any bedtime programmes btw. television doesn't calm children down, it wires them

i find too that if i am on the pc late, or watching tv I find it really hard to then wind down once I am in bed

so try having some winding down time after the television

Original poster

sparklingchampagne · 14/06/2010 19:57

Thank you all - am doing the silent and no eye contact thing at the moment - I know it will take more than tonight to work

The only programmes she watches are 'Driver Dan' and '64 Zoo Lane.' Then we have supper and play a game together, then we go upstairs and have two or three stories, and talk about what she's done today, what she's going to do tomorrow/at the weekend, what the cat is doing etc. So she does have a really long wind down.

Mousey84, I am going to try the idea of staying upstairs for a while tomorrow, I will do the ironing up there. . .

OP posts:

squeaver · 14/06/2010 20:13

The thing with the ballet thing is that the consequence isn't immediate.

My dd gets to keep her bedisde light on and door open so that's two things we can do straight away (unplug the light if needs be).

Keep going in the meantime. We're all right behind you!

Original poster

sparklingchampagne · 14/06/2010 21:15

Thank you all.
You have helped me formulate a plan - the silent/non-eye contact thing certainly helped ME tonight - I was so much calmer than usual!
DD went quiet at about 8.15, so I wil do the same tomorrow, plus stay upstairs, do the usual bedtime routine etc.

As a final aside (!) have just had a shower - and DD has pinched my dressing gown to sleep with. Gorgeous little git!!!!

OP posts:

Mousey84 · 16/06/2010 17:14

Hows it working out?

Original poster

sparklingchampagne · 16/06/2010 18:14

Hello Mousey
I tried your suggestion of pottering upstairs for a while last night - she still cam eout of her room but went straight back in. I'm also doing the 'silent and no eye contact' thing.
She didn't go to sleep any earlier but was less 'up and down' so we're going to carry on - perhaps we can bore her to sleep - I guess if she gets no reaction other than getting led back to bed she might get bored sooner rather than later!
Thnk you so much for your help
xx

OP posts:

Mousey84 · 16/06/2010 21:09

Glad something worked..abit!

ChablisorSancerre · 16/06/2010 22:26

My most recent thing with DD (4) is that I take her to bed and give a time limit ((eg 4 mins) before Mummy has to go and get PJ's on for bedtime). I then have to spend another two minutes before Mummy gets PJ's on.

Works every time (thank whoever!)

NellyTheElephant · 16/06/2010 22:42

My Dd is 5.4. Bed time has always been 7 / 7.30 but over the last 6 months or so it has become increasingly clear that she simply cannot go to sleep that early. Like your DD she was constantly running around and trying to come down stairs and it was driving DH and I insane. We have now come to a level of acceptance on it. At the moment she shares a room with her 3 yr old sister who passes out like clockwork at 7pm, so she can't read in her room but I'll let her sit in my bedroom with the lights on and look at books / fiddle around etc as long as she is quiet and doesn't come downstairs to bother us. Life has been a lot better since we stopped trying to make her go to sleep so early. We are moving house shortly and I am going to put DD2 and baby DS in a room together so that DD can be on her own. My plan is to have her in her room by 7.30 as usual and lights out by 8.15 / 8.30 ish and just to be QUIET.

I do have to be very strict with her - after about 7.30 if she tries to call down and speak to me I will simply say she has to tell me in the morning and will not engage with her. I try to stay calm, don't engage and don't get cross (yes - bore her to sleep), doesn't always work though.

We have also found that a reward chart has worked well - i.e. if she is quiet and stays in her room (or quietly in our room if she prefers) then she gets a sticker and 5 stickers merit a small reward such as a lolly

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