Help needed with 8 year old DD

[Prinpo]

OK, this will be long and a bit garbled but, if you can, please do stick with me because I can't see the wood for the trees and would really welcome some input.

DD (oldest of 2) is nearly 8 and in Year 3. Things have been getting progressively harder for her at school to the point where she's utterly miserable about it and really doesn't want to go into school. I know that children often don't want to go in and I don't expect her to feel happy all the time but this has been going on for about a year now and just seems to be getting worse.

The main problem seems to be with friendships. She feels that the other kids see her as weird, which I think they probably do. She lives in her head a lot and has a great imagination but it clearly is marking her out as different and now that it's been picked up on it seems to have stuck. She doesn't feel any sort of affinity with the other children at school, although she has some lovely friendships out of school. Although she doesn't always show it, her emotions are always bubbling away not far beneath the surface.

In addition to the friendship problems, it's been a bit of a crap year in terms of teaching and next year will not be good either (teacher in next class widely seen as being really dreadful but the school has done little about it). DD does reasonably well academically - great at literacy, not so confident about maths, ok with everything else. She worries about her work a great deal and gets quite worked up if she finds something difficult.

So far, the obvious things we have tried include:

inviting friends over after school;

talking to her class teacher about areas of work that she's struggling with and asking for worksheets to be sent home (which hasn't happened, despite repeated requests);

talking to the head who has helped a bit with maths and has given DD a special role of looking after school pets so that she doesn't feel so lonely at lunchtime;

asking DD to write down things she's worried about so that they're not in her head but down on paper and, therefore, more manageable;

asking DD to write down good things that have happened too so that she doesn't just focus on the bad.

Things at home are pretty stable, with no major changes in the time that this has been going on for. Can you help me to make sense of the situation? As I said earlier, I know that kids get unhappy and I know that part of a parent's job is to jolly them along sometimes but I really do feel that this has gone beyond that stage and that she's so unhappy that she needs me to help. I just don't know what to do.

All ideas much appreciated. Please fire loads of questions at me as your questions might help me to see things in a different way. Thanks in advance.

Hi,

When my dd was in yr3 she really suffered with friendship issues - one girl dominated the class and others were in and out of favour - and also had a brand new young teacher who was clueless (not her fault). In the end she flatly refused to go to school and stayed at home for three weeks and then finally I found another school for her.

Sometimes, despite putting everything in place: no home troubles, inviting kids round etc etc, it just isn't the right fit for the individual. Why not have a look around at other schools and see if one might suit better? Or possibly keep her at home for a while?

I don't agree with jollying along. Do you, as an adult, want to be jollied along? Or understood and helped?! I think kids get v confused and even more unhappy if the reality of their experience is denied or made light of, no matter how good the intentions. Children get just as miserable as adults, but are powerless to change their own situations and need an adult's help to do it.

This is v long...

Hullygully, thanks - that's good advice. I felt really annoyed with one of the TAs this morning. DD was upset from before we left the house and, for the first time, I decided that I would let the teacher know we were there but then spend 10 mins with her in private just having a cuddle and talking through how she could manage the day. One of the TAs came up and, when DD said what the matter was, she said, "Oh, I'm sure those children wouldn't say you were weird. I think if I asked them they'd say you were pretty and clever." I came away feeling, as you said, that her reality was being denied.

We have thought about changing schools and I've even asked her about it. Her response was that she would feel sad at leaving, but also relieved. She also said, though, that she would worry that it would just happen again at a new school, which seems like a fairly legitimate worry to me. Also, we have another dd at the school in reception class so clearly a move would have implications for her.

maybe letting her relax about being great at her work, just dont make a big deal about her work, being good, teacher being not great, she'll pick up on the adult things which at 8 maybe unnecessary. what i am trying to say is if she's generally good at her work then let her off for awhile less emphasis on it and maybe more on the fun aspect,it may take a while but it might relieve the pressure shes feeling. plus ask the head to ensure that at 8 there is a fun apsect in the class.
i feel the idea of kids aving to be great at everything they try whether its sport or literacy is sad, ny kids are great no problems with their work in school and when they get 10/10 i say well done and move on. granny doenst hear nor the neighbour nor parents of other friends.
hth. and maybe my advice is helpful but i hope she enjoys the summer!

Okay, you're going to have to give me some clues about what constitutes the "weirdness" then!

My dd isn't perceived as weird, but she doesn't really fit in with the others, I always think she'll be much happier as a grown up. Sometimes people just don't make good children and have to wait to find their place in life.

I was going to say the same as Hully - is there a possibility of her either moving schools or being HEd for a while? There are lots of helpful people on the HE topic if that is something that might make sense for you (for example if there aren't any other schools nearby).

The two things that stand out for me are that she has good friendships out of school - so it sounds like its not her lacking the skills to maintain friendships - and that you don't expect next years' teacher to be an improvement.

Certainly if I was in a job and it was as bad as your OP describes, I would be looking very hard for other employment.

I wouldn't accept 'weird' as a reason for kids not to be friendly, either.

My dd has been described (in the nicest possibly way) as a 'complete space cadet' - she is, truly, quite often on another planet from the rest of us, and it has never interfered with her friendships at school, despite the fact that she also has what her teacher would politely describe as 'poorly developed social skills'.

hermykne, I agree about being relaxed about work. I would say that we don't push her. We congratulate her when she's done well but focus more on encouraging her to value what she enjoys. We don't push her to do homework (although she's always very diligent) and we refused to get her to do a project that was set for over the holidays. Holidays and after school are for playing!

Hullygully, the weirdness is hard to describe. It's nothing external, which I know can affect whether children are picked on as different. She's reasonably pretty (not exceptionally so), she's reasonably clever, she's always in a clean uniform, etc.. The way she described it to me was that one child had told her that she shouldn't have another world in her head, she should live in the real world. I think that she doesn't really want to play the games that the other kids play but, instead, tries to get them to join in with her games. When they won't I think she gets upset and, from what she's said, a bit huffy about it. I think that this pattern has happened again and again and she's now feeling isolated and the other children are calling her weird and moody.

I should say that it's a perfectly nice class. There's the usual quotient of little buggers but nothing out of the ordinary.

She sounds very much like my dd, Prinpo.

Would it be worth a little gentle suggestion on other games that she might like to play that might appeal more widely - skipping games, tag, clapping rhymes etc?

prinpo
maybe her summer holidays will give her a break from it and she might gain a little more confidence in herself.
how does she play with her sibling?

Takver, I am really thinking about moving schools (have just 'phoned for appointment with another one) but it feels like a big decision. The thought of home-ed scares me a little but is, perhaps, something I could thing about.

What do people think about younger DD? Should I be looking to move them both or should I try to keep DD2 at the school they're at at the moment? Logistically would be a nightmare but I want to do what's best for them.

We've talked about give and take with games but I think the die has been cast, as it were.

I hope that the summer hols will give her some breathing space. That said, I'm pretty sure that things won't work out well (for anyone!) with next year's teacher so I wonder whether I should cut my losses. I'm scared that moving her won't solve the friendship problem and will disrupt things for her younger sister but I'm also worried that if I do nothing then this time next year I'll be kicking myself for not acting sooner. Indecisive, moi?

She plays well with her sibling. There are the usual spats, of course, but they also take themselves off and play fabulous, complex imaginative games together. (Yes, I do have a sneaky listen in from time to time .)

Re. your younger dd, do you think that she would get on better with your dd's yr3 teacher? Because if you are concerned about the teaching, presumably that would be a reason to move both of them?
How much more inconvenient would another school be? (Assuming you were to move both dds)
And is there any possibility of your dd going to the same school as some of her out-of-school friends - just thinking that that might give her a 'good start'?
Like I say, your dd does sound very like mine, so I wouldn't assume that she will have friendship problems everywhere, it could be just the particular group where she is now.

Ahh. So, it's more that she doesn't want to play what the rest of them play and wants them to play her imagination games.

How about role playing with her? (I did a lot of this with ds). She needs to learn to join in and do it their way, because they are the majority, and then, once friendships are a bit more established, she will find others a bit more like her, or will be able to more subtly influence how games are played.

If she is saying "I don't want to play that" and getting huffy, they will call her moody, particulalry if they are all quite happy with the way things are.

And she's the oldest. We (I learnt all this the hard way) find it jolly difficult not to be in charge and have our own way...

I feel a real frustration because, in a way, I can see how she has helped to create this situation. We've spoken so much about how important it is to sometimes just muck in with what others are wanting to do and that, in return, they'll be happier to play your games sometimes. I actually feel quite angry with her, at the same time as feeling desperately sad for her.

I'm not sure whether this is a situation that she needs to work her way through or whether she needs a fresh start with a new bunch of people with whom she might have a better fit. I don't want her to replicate these problems in a new school but also I feel that this has been bad for so long that perhaps she just needs a new chance.

It seems thought that its not a question of lesson time being fine, but friendships an issue, or vice versa, but that neither are working for her.

I guess that is what would be a real issue for me - if one part were ok, then that would be a place to start - but if both are a problem, then that sounds quite a miserable situation.

I do think also that at this age some children are just so much more 'grown up' than others - my dd is definitely at the young-for-her-age end of the spectrum (despite being born in the middle of the year), but fortunately she has a group of friends who are similar.

Are her out of school friends the same age as her, or older/younger?

The one that she is closest to is a year older. They play the most amazing games together. That said, she's also very close to her cousin who is 7 months younger.

And I forgot to say earlier that everyone says that yr 3 is a really, really tough year.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. It's good to have a bit of an offload.

Would you mind if I put you on the spot and asked you to say whether, on balance, you would be looking to move school/home-ed, or whether you think this is a situation that she / we just need to ride out. I know that you have limited information but it would be really useful to hear which way you lean, having read what you've read.

I would be concerned that if the problems repeated at a new school (because, as you recognise, they are partly of your Dd's own making) then you would be really in the shit, tbh. I'd roll with it until next year and try to get her involved in a few out-of-school things to give her common interests with other girls. It sound to me like something she has to move through.

To me, moving school isn't for the odd bad teacher or difficult friendship stage, it needs to be for much stronger reasons.

Feel for you, though, I know it's hard. It was yr2 for us. And he's fine now, in the same school and coincidentally, with a crap yr 4 teacher!

I think it really depends on your confidence in the school. As Takver said, if both areas are an issue, it's difficult. i don't think I could send my dd into yr 4 knowing in advance I had no confidence in the teacher to improve things. Some teachers are really proactive and will do circle times and buddy benches etc and really make efforts to help with the social side, and others won't.

For me, in the end, I couldn't cope with the unhappiness my dd felt continually and moved her. But be prepared, it took my dd a good two terms to fit in at the new school...

OP - really interesting posts here- can't post for long but on balance i'd say move, rather than either stay or home-ed. my DD just turned 9 and is a pretty tricky (and, yes, somewhat weird!) character but has really benefited from a move to a lovely little school with smaller class sizes. her little bro moved with her and was totally fine - they both adapted far more quickly than i'd anticipated. home-ed just makes me SHUDDER, personally, but the other reason i wouldn't rush down that route is that her problems sound mainly social and that staying in a school environment is probably the best way for her to navigate her way through the ishoos. but - at a better school

I think given how unhappy your dd sounds, the fact that you've discussed it with her, and the fact that you aren't happy with the teaching, I would at least go & look at the other possibilities.

Although my dd has struggled a lot (and came home today miserable because she had a dreadful afternoon & got shouted at after failing once again to work successfully in a group) if I ask her she always says that she would prefer to stay in school. I think that's because there are positives for her as well as negatives - she likes a lot of the work, and she does have friends, which balances out the problems that she has.

In her case I don't think a different school would help at all, I'm sure that she would just have the same problems elsewhere (not that there is another option, really). And I think she is also right that HE wouldn't suit her at least at the moment (we know a lot of HE children, and used to live in a largely HE-ing community, so she has a fairly realistic picture of it).

Hully, I think your description absolutely fits my dd - unfortunately, it also fits DH down to a tee (if you won't do it my way, I'm not going to play!), so I suspect she may not necessarily change soon. Fortunately there are plenty of jobs as an adult where you don't need to be good in teams . . .

It's really difficult to decide as either at the existing school or even at the new one there might be someone with whom she just 'clicks' - they all mature at such vastly different rates.

But I would be very tempted to check out the other options and to talk honestly with the other school. Would hope, to make the upheaval of a move worthwhile, to be impressed by the quality of the teaching, the children looked friendly and happy and the school had some proactive ideas about friendship-forming.

Re the no-so good teacher in yr 3 - do other parents have sufficient concerns that they complain? Or consider moving their children? Or is that teacher just not as good as the others in a strongish team? I've read because yr 3 is a middle year, with no SATS to worry about, it's where schools put their weakest teacher (sorry to all the fab yr 3 teachers out there!_