baby won't sleep

[Lalli35]

Hi,

My daughter is nearly 3wks old and has been a lousy sleeper from birth. I can get her to sleep skin-to-skin but the minute I put her in her pram, crib or chair she's awake within 20mins. I really don't know what to do to a)to make her sleep and b) sleep where she's meant to. I've tried waiting for her to be in a deep sleep and i've tried putting her down in a semi-sleep, neither work!

She has pretty bad colic for which she takes infacol and the dr has suggested upping the dose and accepting that she doesn't need much sleep!

Swaddling doesn't help, i've tried moving the crib etc.... she sleeps in the pram or car but the minute the motion stops she's awake again.

2 days ago she slept for a cumulative total of 2hrs in 20hrs! I'm beyond shattered and so is she, but she seems to fight sleep at every turn. I can't do anything during the day as the minute she goes down I know I only have a 20min window within which to do any chores, shower, eat... I've just bought a sling so hopefully that will work and i'll be a little more independent in the day.

I asked the health visitor about cranial osteopathy and she said that won't help as she was an emergency c-section. Does anyone have any tips or advice as to what I can do or where I can go for help?

thank you in advance and desperation!

I had this and have only just resolved it. My baby wouldn't sleep and would just scream with colic and exhaustion. It was an absolute nightmare and I was reduced to tears a lot of the time. Like yours she would sleep only on the go, and I was getting exhausted from tramping the streets only having had minimal sleep.

It turned out our baby (breastfed) has cows milk protein allergy - mostly formula fed babies get it, but 0.5% of breastfed babies have it too. I've completely cut out dairy, eggs and soya (apparantly eggs and soya allergies often run concurrently with dairy and I wanted to be on the safe side) from my diet and she's a different girl!

It's really worth a try. It takes about 3 weeks to see a real difference, although we saw her getting a bit better after only three days. I ate an egg sandwich 2 weeks ago and was rewarded with 2 days of screaming. Not worth "cheating"!

give it a go - I know what its like to have a non-sleeping baby and you have my sympathies.

Forgot to add - cows milk protein allergy often comes with other symptoms like: green poo, vomiting, skin irritation, rashes or spots, nappy rash, nasal stuffiness etc, but doesn't have to.

Babies who are gaining weight well (like mine) can also have it, so even if you don't think its the cause, don't rule it out completely.

We have such a different baby now I'm evangelical about getting other mums with similar symptoms to consider it as a possibility! It's made such a difference to our lives!

Yes can't think, my niece had this and it took them ages to find out. Poor thing was desperate.

Lailli I would go for the cranial, what can it hurt? Hang in there

I went through this all of this with my own DD, couldn't even put her down to go to the loo without her screaming th house down, & as you probably realise, when BF that gets you into a total flap, so I feel for you

the following things helped us...

Sleep/stress/clingyness......

Baby bouncer chair, that vibrates, makes breathing & heartbeat noises, I think it was Mamas & Papas......similar effect to car etc........I so wish I had found that sooner than I did,(6 wks) because suddenly I could put her down

a cup of Epsom Salts, with a few drops of lavender & chamomile aromatherapy oil in a bath for her, the magnesium in the epsom salts helps calm her nerves & helps her sleep........good idea for yourself too, though 2 cups & 10 drops of each for you...google "the epsom salt council" for more info, but its very safe, & a lot of us are deficient in magnesium, which is needed to regulate the central nervous system.

At night, try having a moses basket on a stand by your bed, so she hears your heart & breathing which helps calm here & helps here sleep safeley....later put the moses basket into the Cot, to get her used to the change of scenery, whilst still been in something familiar.

For day sleeping, don't presume she needs quiet.....if you were around noise whilst pregnant,.....be that music, or work machinery.... you may find that like my own DD, she feels unsafe with peace quiet, as its not what she knew in the womb.......so noise for day time naps, be that music, hoover, or baby comfort CDs with breathing, heart beat etc

For Colic.......

I'm presuming you are BF ?....if so, whatever YOU eat, can affect her badly.......I was lucky, I have a good friend who is a nutritional therapist & homeopath, & specialises in birthing & Children.......thankfully she pointed me in the right direction & it worked like a dream ........

cut all layered vegetables, onion, lettuce, cabbage, leek etc etc.......they pass into breast milk & cause colic.....as does anything spicy, especially chilli family spice, even normal Capsicum peppers may cause colic in a very sensitive baby

& if none of that works, then also cut out dairy, because if she is intolerant to that or the lactose in it, again it will come through your milk, ......if your not breastfeeding, then obviously this is something you need to look into first

baby massage can be good for colic.....one we found worked well was..........baby face down along your knee...head over your knee, but head still supported by your leg.........gently massage her back in ANTI CLOCKWISE squared movement, sort of....left to right....down....right to left...up...etc, this goes accross her shoulders, down to her top hip & accross & up again...hope that makes sense....if not, there are some good books out there ;)

Epsom salts & lavender will also help with the Colic, as it calms her frayed nerves, helping her deal with the pain better

Hope some of that helps....good luck

PS...I forgot to add....food colourants & preservatives in your food can also effect both her stomach & skin, so cutting these out can stop colic & skin problems too.....again Lavender & Epsom Salts helps with skin too

Thanks so much, my niece has cows milk, wheat, soy, gluten intolerance which she's had since birth but it wasn't picked up until she was weaned(she's now 5 and no better). I asked the Dr, M'wife and Health Visitor about going dairy free and they said not to but I think it's worth a go to be honest. She has got spots and I think she's a bit snuffly. I do love my dairy stuff though, eek! x

Weird thing was Lalli, I'm diary intolerant.......but due to my struggling with foodduring pregnancy & craving milk, I gave in & drank it........my intolerance had gone completely.........I lived on milk, oat cakes, seed & spinach through my pregnancy, & carried on with milk through BF.....I was drinking 8 plus pints a day.....& DD wasn't then intolerant.....neither was I until 2 months after I stopped BF & it all came back...........DD now is lactose intolerant too, so you might find, despite family history, its actually any chemical additives, spice or layered foods to blame..........which though it sounds like a nightmare, isn't so bad once you start looking into it

& if it does prove to be diary, theres some great goats cheese products out there now....you can even get goat Cheddar, & it just tastes like best quality cheddar........& lots of good milk substitutes, such as coconut milk,(DD loves this as a chocolate shake) rice milk, almond milk, & of course soya, though I'm personally not keen on that for children, due to the natural eastrogen (I think, headache so memory failing ...& if you're lucky it will be a lactose intolerance....which means just use lactolite milk instead, which is easy to get, & tastes just like normal milk

DD used to react pretty quickly after I'd eaten something "bad", so its pretty easy to spot the culprits....& its scary...but honestly, its not so bad really

Good luck finding the culprits

thanks all of you for your help, I really do appreciate it.

I tried soya on my cereal and it was grosse, where do I get lactolite milk, is that a s'market thing?

x

Cranial osteopathy does help with c-section babies.
Have you tried cosleeping and carrying her in a sling? My babies weren't in me pretty much the whole time at this age either sitting cuddling/nursing or in a sling.
HTH

should have read 'were on me' not 'weren't in me' -

Just to pass on some of my (extensive!) research on this topic:

It's unlikely to be lactose intolerance as breastmilk is chock full of lactose - true lactose intolerance is very rare.

this www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/food-sensitivity.html gives a lot of good info on the topic. The dairy intolerance is cows milk protein, which will still be in lactose free milk. Apparantly goats milk proteins are slightly different to those in cows milk but can also have an effect on sensitive babies.

Good luck! Let us know how you get on! If its dairy, you should see an effect in a few days, and in a week or so she'll be a diffeent baby.

oh annd rice milk or oat milk is available from supernmarkets for a quid or so and is quite nice (imho!)

You'll finf Lactolite in most supermarkets......whit carton, green writing with a big black & white cows face on it....comes if fresh, so usually with the specialist fresh milks, such as flavoured, butter milk etc, & longlife, so with dried milks & coffee whiteners etc....I get ours in Morrisons, but see it all over

& I agree with it been an unlikely culprit in a BF baby, but sounds like you might be asking for yourself too?...if so, from personal experience the lactose free cows Milk, IS more easily digestible, neither me, nor DD can drink cows milk without being ill, yet can with Lactolite

from kellymom - hope this helps!:

Sensitivity to cow's milk proteins
Breastfed babies who are sensitive to dairy in mom's diet are sensitive to specific cow's milk antibodies, in the form of proteins (not lactose), which pass into the mother's milk. Cow's milk (either in the mother's diet or engineered into formula) is a common source of food sensitivity in babies. Cow's milk sensitivity or allergy can cause colic-like symptoms, eczema, wheezing, vomiting, diarrhea (including bloody diarrhea), constipation, hives, and/or a stuffy, itchy nose.

If your baby is sensitive to dairy in your diet, it will not help to switch to lactose-free dairy products. The problem is the cow?s milk proteins, not the lactose. Cooking dairy products may reduce but will not eliminate the allergens.

A significant percentage of babies with cow's milk protein allergy will also react to soy. Most dairy-allergic babies will also react to goat's milk or sheep?s milk. Some will also react to beef.

I've posted my story many times before but here's my two pence worth lalli

It took with my second baby who was very windy up to 10 weeks to settle easier. Even at feeds at night he'd squirm with wind after and be uncomfortable for ages. In the day he only seemed happy for 20 minutes after a feed before he was crying again Co-sleep if it helps for now, if you don't already? Try not to worry. It's such early days; you cannot spoil a baby at this age. Do whatever it takes to survive, I would invest in a good sling to be honest, if you haven't already?

My second child cried (screamed) for 2 to 3 hours a night until aged 10 weeks and I spoke to my health visitor about it in desperation (hadn't discovered mumsnet properely yet), she agreed it was probably colic and her tips to try were:

Warm bath covering tummy.
Lying him on his tummy with a warm (not hot) hot water bottle under him to soothe tummy.
Cycling his legs whilst he's on his back. Holding feet palm to palm and rocking legs sideways, whilst lying on floor or lap.
Or scooping with right hand down his right side whilst holding feet palm to palm.
Or rocking him face down well supported on legs.

She also said don't eat anything that gives you wind such as brocolli, cabbage, caffeine, cauliflower, garlic or other stimulants (although tbh I'm not sure it made any difference what I ate). She said if none of the above did work I could try buying Colief drops from a chemist and mixing in with feed by expressing it first, as she said sometimes colic is caused by a lactose intolerance.

I found that out of all of those the cycling the legs was particularly good. I also found that as he had trouble burping, the infacol made him cry harder as it coalesced the bubbles into one big one that still went downwards but hurt more. But giving him gripe water after every feed straight away really soothed his tummy. I had to do it every feed though without fail. And wind him as well as I could and keep him upright for a while after.

The warm bath in a quiet room was a revelation when I discovered how much it helped. Every night at the time he started to get especially agitated I would put in the bath, in a bath cradle and keep putting warm water on his tummy and every now and then top the bath up with warm water, so it wouldn't get too cold for him. Once or twice he was in the bath for 2 hours in the early days as it was really calming for him. Once he started doing big yawns and it was bedtime, I'd take him out into a dark bedroom and change him and BF him quietly and then often he'd go to sleep straight away. He'd wake for feeds at 10.30pm, 2am and 5 am often at this stage. In the day I'd keep him up for only 90 mins only before putting back down for a nap. I found swaddling a real help personally. Both my DCs only slept for 45 mins a nap at this stage but once they were a little bigger things improved.

I've only scanned responses so hoping my post is helpful.

Remember things will get better soon lovely x

thank you all so much for your tips and advice, i will post back with an update as and when (unless I elope to a hot sunny beach with a cocktail first!)

xxx

I don't know if this will help, but I had a similar situation with my daughter (now 4 months)...EmCSection and wouldn't be put down, and 'colicky'. I used infacol and have speculated on allergies and so forth. But we also thought she was insecure as a result of birth trauma and so co-slept (all day and night, with my partner taking in turns). We then bought a co-sleeper cot and she was settled enough/reassured enough to sleep there after 6 weeks (after much playing and fun time in the cot so she got use to it), and now sleeps all night. Just to say there is hope and its just a case of trying things out. It is really hard though! Best of luck.

You poor thing; colic is horrible. I would agree with the advice to co-sleep and definitely get a sling. A lot of mums find that the most challenging babies will sleep in a sling. Even if they don't sleep, it should help soothe them and reduce crying. White noise whilst in the sling might help - my DS liked the extractor fan.

Research has shown that babies who were carried (eg in a sling) for 2 hours or more per day cry a lot less than babies who weren't held this much.

More on colicky babies and sleep here and here.

Really don't worry about her 'sleeping where she's meant to'. At the moment, she's meant to sleep on / with you. Stick to the sling in the day and co-sleep at night. You're not getting into bad habits or making a rod for your own back - babies need to be held for the first 3/4 months. After that they settle down a bit and the whole sleep thing gets easier.

Congratulations and chin up. You're doing a grand job and it will get better.

Lalli35 - this was exactly what my DS was like from being 3days old up until 10wks. He cried all day; before feeds, during feeds, after feeds, slept for tiny amounts here and there and would wake up screaming. I could just about soothe him if I held him, but he still whimpered. He then got even worse (didn't think it was possible) with colic from 9pm to 3am, which shifted to 4pm-8pm after 3weeks when he inconsolible. After this time we couldn't put him down all night, unless he was being held by one of us. The only time he EVER slept was in the pram from 11am -1pm solidly (after horrendous screaming to get to that point). I did cranial osteopathy (recommended as he was forceps delivery) baby massage (in which he slept through - good for the piece and quiet if nothing else). NOTHING and I mean NOTHING worked!! Even the Health Visitors struggled to help and said some babies are just like this. GP's said it wasn't food alergies and they were right. I was in tears for the majority of the day and the only time he settled and I felt I got a break was when I hoovered round him as he stared up at the ceiling ina daze...

If its any consilation it got so much better at 10wks. My DS is 2yrs 6mths now and is extreemely lively. Sleeping gets better and better but he still struggles to "switch off" which has always been his problem. I was told it was a sign of intelligence so hang onto that....

Things I would try; tight swaddling, lullaby music (cd's from mothercare), colief for colic, warm baths definately break the colic cycle, dummy (mine never took to this but really wished he had for confort). Go to bed from 7pm -11pm and let hubby deal with baby and then you can face some of the rest of the night. Its the only way we got through it!!! Good luck x