Behaviour of my son, please read and leave feedback

[Charlee]

This week i have decided to try some new things with DS, he is a very demanding 11 month old, and although i dnt belive babies can be 'naughty' as such, myself and the health visitor belive he has learnt that if he cries myself and DP will give him exactly what he wants when he wants.
I am willing to admit fully that this is my fault as up untill now i have done everything he wants even if its not neede, he is picked up 99% of the day if not he will scream non stop, he eats when were eating even if hes beed fed so ends up snacking alot again becasue if not he screams the place down.
He used to sleep through all night from 6pm to 6am but in the last 3 weeks has been waking again and has got into the routine of me cming to him and getting him out and feeding him, it has now got the point where dp finds it difficult to do his job due to lack of sleep and hes so tense, hes a professional driver so this isnt safe.
I find myself short tempered and uptight again becuase im so tense, which then goes in a visiouc cirle as DS can sense our tenseness and it makes him upset.
So i have decided to try and put a stop to this so we can get back to being a calm family again.
I will list the thigs we are planning to do, please tell me if in your experience it will help.

1.When DS is playing with somethinghe shouldnt be i.e video player/t.v i will say no firmly then remove him and give him his own toys to play with. He screams when i do this so i ignore him then when he stops crying i play with him and praise him to hopefully teach him he get rewarded when hes not cryong.

2.when hes demanding our food even if hes been fed i will try and distract him, or again if it doesnt work leave him to calm himself down then praise him, we dont eat at the same time as we eat our dinner late.

3.when hes demanding 24/7 attention i will only give it to him if hes quiet and not having a tantrum, he always wants picking up as he cant crawl or walk himself and will throw a tantrum if hes not constantly being held.

4.when he wakes at night i will give him water the first time for him to go back to sleep with then every time after that i will go in to reassure him im there then leave without picking him up untill he goes to sleep himself.

5.when he scratches,hits me i will say no firmly if he does it again i will put him down and distract him with toys.

My aim is to get him to understand he is praised for not having a tantrum and that screaming will NOT get him attention.
I think alot of it is frustration because he is trying so hard to walk but cant quite get the hang of it he can cruise the furniture but cant pull himself up to standing to do it himself, so we have to put him agiant the furniture, so i understand that sometimes he will cry
but i just havent got time to do this all the time which is what he wants litterally.

Having read thorugh this i have realised that i may sound harsh leaving him to cry his temper out, but please understand i WOULD NEVER leave him if he was actually needing something and always makes sure he is clean,dry,fed,watered and rested before considering this.

Does anyone think this will have any effect if not does anyone have any other solutions to help overcome our problems.

Thank you.

and dad!

I do agree that children need to learn to play by themselves - but disagree that they can do this if upset and wanting to be picked up. I am sure Charlee can gently encourage her son to get more independent, but he needs to feel totally secure at the stage he is now before he can move on to the next. I believe children have to learn this at their own rate and can't be forced.

I did think about toys that Charlee might find useful to occupy him while she has a break - have you tried collecting a box or basket of natural and everyday things which would be safe for him to explore while you just sit near him to give him confidence? Once he feels happy with this you could try letting him play alone for short periods while you listen out from the next room.

Here is a bit more information about making a treasure basket:

"The Treasure Basket can offer just the right kind of magical experiences to a young baby. This simple idea conceived by Elinor Goldschmied over thirty years ago has given countless babies a rich and stimulating start to their lives. The Treasure Basket is a medium, low and rigid-sided round or oval basket, into which is placed 60 to 100 natural and household objects of your choice. The objects might range from a pine cone, shell or medium-sized pebble, to a garlic press, bottle brush or leather purse. The greater the variety of texture, taste, smell and weight of objects, the better. As adults our visual sense is so dominant we forget that all the senses are important and exciting to the baby. In addition, familiar and ordinary things are all novel to a young child.

A Treasure Basket offers choice and variety and encourages independent activity. A six to ten month old baby seated beside one can demonstrate concentration and independent exploration lasting thirty minutes or more, without any adult encouragement. In fact, adults usually interfere with the baby's concentration and sensual pleasure; when interrupted the baby's play changes from exploration to social interaction. A baby needs the security of his mother's approving presence to release any innate anxiety he is experiencing about the new objects but he does not need a constant verbal monologue. Also, because a Treasure Basket is so stimulating, it is best offered to the baby for limited periods during the day and only when he is fresh and alert."

There is more information here

Hope this might give some ideas to amuse him while you have a break.

Rereading the other messages here, I do agree with Twiglett that when the mother is finding it too much, something needs to change, but I still think the best plan is to first look at ways for the mother to carry on mothering without getting burnt out, before trying to change the child's (perfectly normal) behaviour. I think socialisation and learning acceptable behaviour is best done gradually and at the child's own pace, not with a program of 'training'.

Sorry this is getting into rather abstract discussion on your thread Charlee! Hope getting people's thoughts helps you anyway.

Dear dear! i didnt want to turn this into an argument! I would like to clarify though, when i mean he wants 24/7 attenetion i mean it! and by attention this doesnt mean me talking to him from the other side of the room or even sitting next to him, to stop im screaming he has to be climbing all over me leavig me unable to do even simple things like tidy the house ect.

Ito value your ideas about the feeding thing its not possible to eat dinner with him but i can eat breakfast and lunch with him, do and i dont eat dinner to late as we only eat when hungry and are not hungry at 4.30 when ds eats dinner. i was just worried as in previous experience woth my neices whom my sister would always give them what she had when they demanded it, they would start doing this in unaporopriate situations, i.e with other people and there children and i didnt want his to happen with ds.

I would love to give my sone 100% attention all day belive me but its just not possible i am only human and do have other needs and things to do but i would NEVER neglect him when he needed me.

Thanks for all your input.

1. I agree with you!
2. Could this be avoided all together. Try and eat after he is in bed etc. Or eat in another room if poss? 3)Try and have a 'play time' time when you sit with him and play and a time when you do your thing. Do you go to toddler groups? 4)Worth a try. thats what I would suggest,but sometimes (being realistic not helpful) its quicker to feed and get back to sleep!
3. Say 'NO' put him down and walk away. Dont reward with toys! I think you are planning the right approach. you will slip somedays and somedays you will be strong. Try to tackle one thing at a time maybe so that you dont feel you are always saying no.

Mumtosomeone thank you, and can i just say im very sorry about your m/c,

DS is a very cheerfull baby when hes getting attention but unfortunatly he cannot be center of attention all the time how ever much i would love him to be as a parent i dont belive its good for a child to learn that they need constant attention to be happy, i have spoken through this with my h.v yeaterday evening and she is full supporting me, again i would like to thank you all and i will let you know how i get on.

Well she should support you as you are doing the right thing!
Parenting isnt the same for everyone and can be very hard work at times. Dont expect him to respond to everything you are trying at once and as I said before try one thing at a time maybe so you dont get down yourself!!

Charlee - does he go to any nursery/playgroups etc? or is he alone with you most of the time? maybe he'd be more independant if he was used to group activites? Although I know my ds at that age was clingy too. Its only been since 1yo and walking that he got better at amusing himself.
He still wants to cling to my leg tho when I'm trying to make dinner etc. I've started giving him a pot of water and a bottle brush to keep him amused beside me.
I think 11 mo is still a bit young to be too harsh on them for everything on your list. Defo no to the hiting etc - but I think your reasoning is wishful thinking at 11mo for the rest.
You can start to try and implement the reasoning - but I doubt it'll sink in tbh.
I don't know how long my ds would have temper crying - I've given in at 20 minutes!

Unfortunatly there are no mother and baby groups arong and i cant afford to send him to the local playgroup.

The things i most want to conquer are his sleep in as it is cause dp to be dangerous at his job but that is slowly improving!

And the needing constanst picking up and the hitting, im not to fussed about theothers and i do realise it may take time and yes he is young but im not being harsh otherwise im sure my h.v would have said something, ds has unfortunatly inhereted the foulest temper off of me so when he screams its all temper not upset.
i am NEVER parted from ds i am with him all day whether were in or out i dont mind this as i obviously love my son unconditionally but i figure if dp and myself are warn out, stressed and short tempered its going to reflect on ds.

I'm sure once he starts walking he'll improve a lot.
have a look on netmums.com - I've met 2 nice girls from there. You click on your area and its got lists of mums and the ages of their children etc - so you can choose ones that are similar to you. Its better than here for that type of thing.

Think you are doing the right thing Charlee and agree with much (probably all) of what Twiglett advises. Only thing I really disagree with is the food thing. Don't see how you can expect to eat and him not to. Think you should either synchronise your meals or eat dinner after he has gone to bed - what time is that? Both my children ate with us at every meal at that age the same thing as us and still do (they are 4 1/2 and 15 months) and while I understand that this is not for everyone I don't think you can expect him to just sit and play nicely while you have an adult meal. I see your point about your nieces and yes I do occasionally sneak into the kitchen for a biscuit when DD is not looking. She has absolutely no concept of food not being for her to eat - I have tried cooking with the two of them but she just eats the mix!

Best advice though is to sort out the sleep. IME it leads to them being much happier in the day if they are well rested at night. Maybe some of the clingyness is tiredness?

bozza this is jacks nana,its not the fact of him eating when they do it when he sees someone in town eating chrisps or if some one passes him in the street he gets hysterical coz he wants it, but if you give it to him he throws it on the floor anyway

Hi Charlee, I hope you didn't think I was suggesting you are not giving him enough attention. I just had one more idea which is that when you are desperate to get on with something and he is getting upset, you could maybe use a sling (the sort you tie around yourself so he can ride on your hip) and that way he can come along too and see what you are doing. My son wanted to be carried all the time as well and I never got anything done until we used a sling! People said it would spoil him to carry him around, but he and I both enjoyed it and he is now, age 2, a happy, independent and sociable little boy.

I would maybe try what someone else suggested and tackle one thing at a time - it is a lot for him to handle all at once and I don't honestly think things like wanting some of your food is a big problem. It is natural for him to want to try a bit, and you can introduce good manners eg. not demanding other people's food, when he is a bit older and can understand.

1.When DS is playing with somethinghe shouldnt be i.e video player/t.v i will say no firmly then remove him and give him his own toys to play with. He screams when i do this so i ignore him then when he stops crying i play with him and praise him to hopefully teach him he get rewarded when hes not cryong.

....should work very well and tho he will 'try it on' now and then keep firm and use a firm voice.

2.when hes demanding our food even if hes been fed i will try and distract him, or again if it doesnt work leave him to calm himself down then praise him, we dont eat at the same time as we eat our dinner late.

....could you divide ds meal so he has a snack earlier and eats with you? it's a social family time and he will learn good table skills from watching you and dp, divide attention btw dp & ds.

3.when hes demanding 24/7 attention i will only give it to him if hes quiet and not having a tantrum, he always wants picking up as he cant crawl or walk himself and will throw a tantrum if hes not constantly being held.

....the less he is carried the more inclined he will be to get mobile. if you leave the room talk to him, for a start carry him till he can see you tho not all the way into the other room, to encourage him to know your still there.

4.when he wakes at night i will give him water the first time for him to go back to sleep with then every time after that i will go in to reassure him im there then leave without picking him up untill he goes to sleep himself.

....try to settle him several times first b4 offering water, this way he will learn to self settle easier.

5.when he scratches,hits me i will say no firmly if he does it again i will put him down and distract him with toys.

....good plan, tho I would put him down the first time and turn away for a minute, put him near his toys but don't make a fuss with them/him until minute has passed, act like nothing had happened once minute over.

Sounds a fair plan, use a firm not loud voice, mean what you say, explain things to him, make sure everyone is following the same plan and don't contradict others in front of him.

Praise him for playing nicely, for being smiley so he gets oodles of positive attentionn for playing and being placid, ignore screaming and tho it will get louder and more frequent at the beginning it will soon be a completely different picture.

Having read thru all the responses now.

Babies/young children need to learn how to enjoy 'me' time this way as their independence grows and their imagination developes they can play for longer periods independent to adult company.

As you have said there are things you need to do, not least wc time and house chores.

A playpen is a great invention and allows the baby boundries and focuses their attention to a small space, the treasure basket or a toy not seen for a while will capture their attention very well.

Tackling the sleeping first is in my veiw the most important step as a well rested baby is a happier baby.The food can be adapted to give ds a snack of his own as you eat if he is still up.

My DS is 12 months and sounds fairly similar in that he can cruise and use a baby walker but doesn't crawl properly, he commando crawls but isn't really keen. I find he needs a lot of attention at the moment, but also think this is mostly just frustation at really wanting to be walking. Went through a similar stage when he was learning to sit, as he didn't want to lie down but was too unbalanced to sit on his own. To some extent I think this is just a stage we need to ride out, and hopefully they will be a little less demanding of our attention when they can walk properly. If I want to do something round the house I try and get him engaged in something first, which usually works for a few minutes anyway.
Food wise, we try and eat together where possible even though that means dinner earlier than we would really like. Although not 4.30, that seems very early? It seems a good habit to try and eat together and hopefully the same food rather than having seperate children's and adults foods, it seems to me that eating seperately doesn't really send the right message about meals. But we save the ice-cream for when DS is in bed!
Sleep wise, my DS is usually OK, but if he does wake up I settle him in his cot and have never given him water, don't think he needs it but maybe yours does?
Like everyone else, violence (usually biting here) gets a sharp no, baby on the floor and ignored for a minute or so.
Hope all these opinions are helpful !

Oops! Just realised I posted on a really old message, not got the hang of this mumsnet business yet...

My son hits me

This is my first post and I'm baffled by the abbreviations. My son (ds?) is 41/2years, and has recently taken to hitting me (and very occasionally his dad). There has been a spell of a couple of weeks when he stopped, but he's back at it. If I give him time out, he ups the violence and aggression until he's settled in time out. Usually he calms down and says sorry. Occasionally he's back at it shortly afterwards. I increased time out and temporarily confiscate a favourite toy until the next day. The whole thing seems to be going on and on (but really may be a couple of months at most). Sometimes he doesn't calm down and hits me when I am telling him to stay on his step. If that happens I up the time spent on his step. I am struggling to cope when it happens. Any advice...I am working f-t, and his dad has recently gone back to work but the hitting bouts predate this...