hopefully it's a phase, hopefully it will pass...

[whatname]

but how do I deal with it now!!!
DS is 2 1/2 and his behaviour is just awful.
Last night he screamed and thrashed around for half an hour because he wanted juice out of a bottle, not milk. We had naughty step, we had timeout in his room, I walked away, I said no, I tried to reason with him. He was hitting me. at one point I said I should smack your bottom, and he said no, smack your bottom mummy and came and hit my bum, hard!!
Wouldnt have nappy on, wouldnt have pjs on.
then all of a sudden he said milk please mummy and cuddled into bed. Like in an instant he changed!

we have the same tantrum every time he can't get what he wants.
this morning, he wanted ice cream from the freezer, then he wanted to cook at the hob, so i gave him a pan and some pasta and set up a pretend cooking station for him, thats fine.
This probably doesn't sound that bad, but it's exhausting, and i actually have a lot of patience. He is so strong, so getting him dressed when he doesn't want to is a joke. now won't let me wash his face or blow his nose,brush his teeth or brush his hair. how am I going to put sunscreen on him???
I feel like i am really doing something wrong, but he has to learn that he can't have everything, how do i teach him??

he has a couple of afternoons at nursery, and i told them his behaviour hasn't been good, and yesterday I asked how he had been, and she said ooh lets not talk in front of him. So i think there is an issue there which I will get to the bottom of today.

My memory of two year olds (I have twins and the terrible twos had me on my knees) is that you can spend your whole time telling them off.

I think it is important to vary your language so that you are not saying "no" all day long - drives both of you crazy. I tend to use things like "I am going to count to 10" or "I am getting bored", which was a warning sign that I would go ballistic.

However, I would also say that distraction works pretty well. Ignoring is no good if you do not substitute other stuff.

Finally, sadly, all the stuff they tell you about quality time is rubbish. they just want time. My two's behaviour changed in a heartbeat when I stopped working and spent more time with them. Obviously, financially it was disastrous (ended up back at my parents, etc).

can't imagine it with 2!!!
I honestly feel like i am trying everything.
Spoke to nursery today and she said she was amazed he actually sat still on a chair for 5 minutes. Seems when they do storytime or some structured things, they can't get him to sit still or do what he is told! he just wants to do what he wants. They said they are being strict with him, but no avail. and a bit of hitting and not taking his turn.

I just don't know what to do.
i am dreading bedtime, if its anything like last night.

thing is , he has all my attention, it is just him and me at home all the time. I feel like he has more fun at nursery

if he's too young for those methods, what methods do i use?
he's just gone to sleep, had to brush his teeth after he went to sleep. Screamed and sobbed for 10 minutes, at least not as long as last night!

and i watch him sometimes,through the door in nursery when i pick him up. they are all sitting down listening to the storytelling, or joining in with the songs, and he is wandering around picking up books off the shelf, or climbing or clambering around. I am starting to think there is something wrong, he is so hyperactive.

It's a phase, it will pass. And breathe.

Honestly it is horrible - dd was an absolute horror. On one occasion I called dh at work and he had to come and rescue us from the park where she was behaving like a small devil child. He works 40 minutes away and she was still howling when he arrived. This won't help much now but they really do get over it. She's 5 now, and delightful.

Not much you can do apart from try and keep your cool. Good advice (from here) is to pretend you're on a "how to parent well" tv show and remain calm at all times. Consistency is really important - say no and stick to it or don't say no in the first place, always warn them what's going to happen, etc etc. But my god it is boring. And I'm now going through the same thing with ds who I thought was going to let us get away with it.

So miserable

It is so hard, I can really sympathise.

I do think all of this naughty step/consequences stuff is going over his head. It isn't working, is it?

I was in despair over my ds when he was 18m to 2 and a half, it was SUCH hard work, just like you describe except that he was not really talking much.

How to Talk so that Kids Will Listen changed things around for me in a big way, it is such a helpful book. I can't praise it enough. That is if you have the energy to read atm.

Oh and it IS a phase. DS is a really chilled out little person now.

Most of the time.

It is a phase (though my Asperger's DS is still in it at the age of eight ). Whatname, I was very struck by you saying that you tried to reason with your toddler. Toddlers don't do reason. Toddlers do simple, firm responses. If they don't respond, don't get involved any futher. Say no - if that's what you're going to say - and walk away. I used to take a newspaper on walks with me for the times that my toddlers refused to co-operate/walk. I'd get the paper out and start reading it. Within minutes, they were fed up with having no audience and would invariably decide that walking on was the better plan.

I think two and a half is too young for naughty steps and complicated consequences. If he chucks a wobbly about juice in bottles, calmly go through his bedtime routine, giving him attention when he co-operates. I used to find it helpful to say: "I can't hear you when you use that voice/when you're screaming - please talk properly so I can hear you."

I think it's arguably too young for sitting still at nursery. The nursery's expectations are unrealistic for your particular child. There is nothing wrong with your child. In general, nurseries want the child to fit their routine. With large numbers of children, they can't make their routine fit the individual child. If he were mine, I'd remove him from nursery and find playgroups/toddler groups where he can play and socialise without having to sit still.

If he refuses to have his pyjamas on, he should go to bed without them. That battle is not worth picking. Nappy: ditch it. That way, there are no arguments about that. Ditto bottle. Two and a half isn't old enough for naughty steps and reasoning, but it is too old for a bottle. IMO. But then that's toddlers for you - simultaneously babies and babied, and needing independence. No wonder it's so very stressful.

I'd also forget half-threats about 'I should smack your bottom'. Whatever you think of smacking (and I have done it, to my shame), you need to make it clear that such-and-such will happen ("If you do that again, I will smack you" is, at least, a clear warning with a clear consequence - though, again, I think two is too young to really take that in.)

I really do feel for you. My son hasn't entirely grown out of it, and it's awful. But the vast majority of children do grow out of it, and it's very, very likely that yours will be one of them.

OracleOfDelphinium do you mind me asking about your little ones Asperger's? What types of behaviour did they show at 2 and a half??

Thank you for your responses. I just feel a bit useless. The smacking comment wasn't a threat, I was really kinda just talking out loud. it wasn't, I will smack you, I didn't know he knew what the word meant! It was the first time I had tried timeout although the naughty step has been used for a while, mainly just to take him away from the situation and tell him why he is being naughty. The icecream is actually those frozen fromage frais but that's what we call it. But it's the same with everapplet, apples, he would take 5 out of the fruit bowl if I let him!
The nursery is lovely, they have tons of free time, they just commented on him sitting still, she was half joking. At the moment I seriously can't deal with taking him anywhere, the thought of taking him to the park is just daunting!
I do choose my battles and always have, dh says I am not strict enough! I have to explain that some fights just aren't worth it
He is adorable though, just so affectionate, and funny and lovely, and I love him so much. Just don't know what to do for the best. I do worry, cos I have felt his stubborness from very early on, and now this anger and frustration! We don't have this in our family, must come from his father! Thank you for listening.

iloveigglepiggle - I don't mind at all. It's a bit late now, but I'll reply tomorrow...

Oh god!! Are you describing my DS! He is 2.4 and currently going through this. I am at my wits end this week. It upsets me as he is a lovely boy but when we have been out with friends etc this week, he has really been playing up. I feel like mothers are looking at me and thinking what an awful child I have.

I too think naughty step etc is a bit old for this age and I go with distracting where you can. This does work for me a lot but its harder when we are out. DS gets a lot of my attention as I am a SAHM so its not like he's starved of attention. It muct just be this age but its so hard to deal with especially when they were such good babies and lovely children that people would comment on how good they were. Then the tantrums start!!

Will be watching this thread.

Igglepiggle: my DS is now 8. At 2.5, he was just as he is now. Completely and utterly obsessive (then, it was oscillating fans, now it's the periodic table) - and not in a quite sweet, nerdy boy way, but in a life-sapping, scary way. He went in for huge meltdowns if, for instance, we missed out one oscillating fan on a trip to the shops. He also went in for huge meltdowns if he was scared: he can't do any negative emotion but anger. Likewise, anger seems to be the only negative emotion that he can identify in others (he thinks they're angry if they're scared/upset/disappointed/worried and so on).

At 2.5 he was also conspicuously clever (again, in a scary way), conspicuously articulate (I remember him telling one of my friends about intermittent rain when he was that age), and conspicuously anxious and difficult. He was also very bothered by other children (and still is, to a large degree. He is very scared of their unpredictability, and has never yet made a real friend).

The other thing that is the same as when he was 2.5 is that I can never, ever switch my brain off. I have to be on high alert the whole time, because if I'm not, the potential for meltdown and chaos is unimaginably immense. I have been sobbing this evening because I've had both children solidly for 14 hours, and my brain has had it. When I have DD on her own, I don't have to think. With DS, the consequences of not thinking are too horrible to contemplate.

He is very good at school. He fears the school sanctions, and his teachers keep him very busy. I can, likewise, manage him perfectly well now - so long as I don't let my guard slip even for a second. This is life with an Asperger's child. Or my experience of it, anyway.

I spent years being terrified that he was high-functioning autistic. Ironically, it is a relief now to discover that this is the case. What's odd is that if I hadn't had my DD, I'd have thought that DS was 'normal'. HTH!

Maybe he is just not used to the nursery routines yet, and he prefers running around to listening to a story. My DS is a bit younger than yours, but also prefers messing around to listening nicely... I like to think he is proof that Darwin was right and is a bit of a monkey

Oracle , that sounds really tough. Do you not have any support?

whatname, you will make me cry if you are kind to me!! But thanks all the same.

Support: not much. I have a DH who can't cope with the Asperger thing, so leaves it to me as I can - apparently - cope. DH has no patience, and can't think quickly enough about how to ward off trouble. But I accept this in the same way that I accept DS not being able to help the way his brain is wired.

His teacher is very supportive, and I have sobbed on her shoulder on more than one occasion. But it's really just a case of trundling on, trying to ward off the meltdowns and trying to make everything completely predictable for all of us. Hey ho.

Arhh, don't cry. Is it the weekends that are hard? Hope your dh is there with a glass of something cold. X

Whatname:

Yep, weekends are especially hard!

Thank you for your kindness.