Toddlers - how do you deal with a) everlasting wailing fits and b) refusals?

[MyNameIsInigoMontoya]

OK so I am having a really bad day today, not helped by being short of sleep and the baby kicking off every time the toddler does. So would love any tips for dealing with these (DS is 29 months by the way):

Wailing fits - at the moment whenever DS is unhappy about anything (a nappy change, having to go in the pushchair when he wanted to walk...) he goes into a wailing fit and seems to be able to go on forever. He has just been sat in the porch wailing "DS want to walk.." over and over for I think nearly half an hour... I have tried ignoring but he just goes on wailing forever; tried talking to him/being sympathetic (without giving in) but it makes no difference; tried making him laugh with silly things - this very occasionally works, but often doesn't (I just tried getting creative with a "magic stop-shouting spell" but it didn't help). Meantime I really struggle to keep my temper, especially when he makes the baby cry at the same time. This time he eventually snapped out of it and came in to play the piano(?!), but I would love to know if there are any ways to get it over a bit quicker, especially those times when we can't easily just wait it out.

Also, how do you deal with refusing to do things like having nappy changed, getting dressed etc? We spent all this morning with him going "DS busy" and running off. I am trying to pick my battles, and happy to call his bluff and go out without shoes or coat if he refuses to put them on, but thought taking him out in the pushchair to toddler group in shorty pyjamas and last night's wringing wet nappy might be taking it a bit too far.. but we nearly had no alternative short of pinning him down, which I am trying to avoid If I wasn't so flipping tired I would probably be better at handling both of these, but in the meantime would be glad of any good ideas other people have used!

With the refusal thing, have you tried giving choices? i.e. not saying "it's time to change your nappy" but "which book do you want to look at while I change your nappy?" or even "do you want your nappy changed before or after you play?" Just don't give him the opportunity to say no!

That actually worked on DS (2.6) this morning. He was drawing downstairs and I needed him to come upstairs to brush his teeth so I told him he could come straight away, or I could brush mine and he could come when he's ready. He chose to carry on drawing (surprisingly enough!) so I went to brush mine and he was climbing up the stairs before I'd finished!

Doesn't always work of course. Yesterday I asked if he wanted a blue bib or a red bib and he replied "I not wear a bib!".

I've just read "How to talk so kids will listen..." which I thought was very good. I did think that DS might be a bit young for some of it, but I've tried out a few things and they do seem to help.

First things first. I do not have six fingers and I didn't kill your father, all right?!

Sorry you're suffering. I have no great panacea I'm afraid. DD1 was the same, having not previously done much/any tantrum-ing, when DD2 arrived. She was 2 1/2.

For us, if it's any consolation, it seems to go in cycles. We'll have a few weeks of constant drama, the a couple of months of relative calm (DD2 10 months old now!). It drives me round the bend, and I struggle to keep my temper.

I'm afraid I have on occasion resorted to pinning her down More positively ("How to talk...') I find wishes in fantasy sometimes work (e.g. 'Oh, I wish we had enough time so I could let you walk, we'd walk all the way round the world to Australia and back again...'), and acknowledging the feeling also sometimes defuses things ('I hear a very cross boy, who wants to be allowed to walk all by himself. But...')

Good luck. Will follow the thread with interest for any better tips...

Thanks... yes I have tried the choices thing, it occasionally works but is far from guaranteed. I ask him which t-shirt he would like to wear, or whether he wants his nappy changed standing up or on the mat, or whether he wants himself or DD to be done first (sometimes works as he always wants to be first, but other times he still refuses!). I have also tried the acknowledging-feelings thing, but that just seems to bounce right off him or even make him worse (kind of "you know I want to walk but you still won't let me!").

I have got the "How to talk..." book somewhere actually, so maybe I should have another look at that for some ideas; last time I looked at it he was still a bit small and had not got to the tantrum stage yet. Else I will just have to hope we hit the calmer cycle again soon... it is almost more frustrating that in between strops he can sometimes behave amazingly well (the sort that gets nice comments from strangers) but then spoils it again next minute with a huge meltdown! And if only I could get DD napping a bit better that would help too, so I don't have to deal with them both howling at the same time.

I agree choices are a good thing - only give 2 options though or it takes forever. Also try laughing with them - when they say no to absolutley anything and everything turn it into a game, ending with do you like chocolate cake / ice cream etc - eventually you get a smile.

bloody hard work though, sometimes I feel the red mist descending and have to offer myself the choice of ice cream or chocolate cake ...

It's so stressful and irritating isn't it? My 2.2 yr old DD1 is exactly the same. My standard line with nappy changes and getting dressed is "if you want to go to toddler group/soft play/wherever then we need to change your nappy.......otherwise we will have to stay at home all day" works quite well as she hates being stuck in the house.

As for the wailing fits, I have been known to loose my temper on many an occasion .....I have a 12 wk old DD2 too and my patience with DD1's behaviour has waned as a result. I tend to try distraction first, and always maintain an outward impression of a sunny disposition whilst I do it (lots of smiling, sing song voice etc etc and a "lets do some colouring/sing some songs etc) If it doesn't work then I ignore. If she's behaving like that for attention then she's certainly not getting any!

You really have my sympathy though.......it all seems so much worse when you're knackered. Lets hope it's a phase!

Has anyone read 'Little Angels' its a book to accompany a bbc tv series tho ive never seen it but do have the book, need to start reading it again myself but it looks at how changing your behaviour can help the children to change theirs which i totally buy into. The more im shouting the worse dd gets and the more stressed the situation gets so it just goes on and on so i realise we are slipping into old habbits hence the need to read the book again to calm family life down!

With DS2 (2 on Saturday ), when he refuses to get dressed, I just say 'that's fine, let me know when you're ready, and we'll talk about combine harvesters/grabber trucks/spiders', then busy myself with something else without paying him any attention. It doesn't seem to take him long to come round to the idea usually. If he flips over or gets obstructive while I'm dressing him, I repeat the procedure and leave him half dressed/changed. For wailing fits, I just carry on as best I can with other things and ignore him. None of this works all the time, but it seems as good an approach as any, and less stressful for me than trying to persuade him to do things he doesn't want to do

Good luck. I feel your pain!

Oh I will look out for the "Little Angels" book as well then!
The "telling him about combine harvesters" trick might work too I suppose, he does LOVE having things explained to him at the moment so it might tempt him, will try that next time. He is at nursery today though so I get a break, phew!

Oh and the other thing we have decided to do is reintroduce snacks, we weren't usually giving him any as he is such a good eater at mealtimes usually and didn't seem to need them before, but now I think he is sometimes getting hungry and then having some of his worst strops before meals. So hopefully that will help. Can't stop him getting tired (not if he won't nap!) but hopefully we can stop him getting hungry!