12 year old son - lying. It is driving me BANANAS

[maria1665]

Constant lying - it is driving me insane. About the most minor things - but mainly homework and TOOTHBRUSHING!!!! Everytime we think we have got a grip on it, it just starts up again. This morning it was repeated lying over whether he has brushed his teeth - he is on a final warning from the dentist who we saw again last week. Three pleasant reminders, all met by an indigant 'Of course.' Yet the toothbrush hadn't been touched. As usual, when this was pointed out, there was the usual Gordon Brown 'penitent sinner' rigmarole, 'I am so sorry Mum. I don't know why I lied.' AAAGHHH!!!

It has really worn me down, resulting in me really yelling at him this morning, and not been able to say goodbye civilly when he went to school. I am still shaking, and feel sick. It has gone on off and on for a couple of years now. Its got to stop. Help needed.

What does a final warning from the dentist mean? Is he going to strike your ds off his list if he doesn't brush?

Could you show him lots of pictures of rancid rotten teeth and tell him that if he wants his mouth to look the same then he's on the right track and that in future it's his responsibility to take care of his teeth and that you will not be raising the issue again or taking him to the dentist because you're sick of the lies. From now on it's his teeth his problem.

Then back off for a while, don't challenge him, don't (overtly) check up on him, don't chivvy him. See if he can take responsibility for himself on that front.

I'm not suggesting that you do entirely wash your hands of it, just that a change of tack might help? If he's not brushing his teeth now with pressure from you then you've got nothing to lose.

Son desperately needs braces - and he himself really wants them. He's got teeth coming out at all angles. And on a night time, he often does spend alot of care on his teeth. But it is sporadic.

The dentist won't fit braces on him because of his poor dental hygene. The alternative will be that he will have teeth removed to minimise the impact of the extra teeth, but he will still have crooked teeth, which will make them difficult to brush, increasing likelihood of decay as an adult. He is very very close to the dentist opting for the no braces/teeth removed option.

However the issue is not so much the teeth brushing - its the lying about the teethbrushing - and lying about his homework - and lying about everything and anything!! They are never show off lies. Just 'its easier to lie that have to do it' lies.

Not sure what to suggest, but appreciate becasue ds(6) does it.
But its not just the toothbrushing here is it. It is the actual lying and not being able to understand why someone keeps telling almost meaningless white lies. So iritating. wears you down. That i understand. becasue we are there too at the moment.

Maria, my 12 year old ds is just the same - and then wonders why we doubt his word on things. He recycled a present bought for his primary school teacher for christmas (which he forgot to take in) as my mothers' day gift this year, and swore blind he'd bought it from Holland and Barratt - and I knew darned well that wasn't true, but I had to go through their website for evidence before he owned up.

He also gave me an ornament that he bought for himself a few years ago as my christmas present last year, and lied about that - said he knew I liked his, so had bought me one the same, and that his was put away somewhere in his room. He only coughed to this one on mothers' day too.

In the past, I have punished lying by making him write lines - "I must not tell lies - lying is dishonourable" - to get him to try to consider what he's doing, but it hasn't cured the problem.

I wish I had an easy answer. You could reward honesty - check his toothbrush or watch him brush, and give him a sticker to collect towards some treat - that might work on the specific issue of toothbrushing (though the cynic in me thinks the toothbrush could just be run under the tap).

What I hate most about this problem is how cynical and mistrusting it has made me.

That's it exactly. It has made me cynical and mistrusting. And I hate it.

We had a conversation the other night about it - him saying he didn't know why he lied and me saying it should lack of respect - for himself as well as the person he was lying to.

But it has changed me. And the extent to which I flipped this morning, demonstrates how much this has started getting to me. It is so so tiring.

my son is the same, its almost a lazy habit... He is 11 this july, perhaps its a hormone age thing?

Ds will swear he's done his teeth/has no homework/has put on clean underwear but is always caught out! There's no reason, no reward for lying and it is so frustrating!

My latest 'punishment' is limiting computer and sky time, it works for a while but he slips back into it.... Arghhhhh too!

To break the trend my 13 year old dd is the same and we have a mixture of pointless and very dangerous big lies, it's like it's such an ingrained habit they fall out of her mouth before her brain can stop itself.

It is making for a very miserable time.

Mine does it with hand washing - even to the extent of running the tap but just can't be bothered to actualy wash his hands. He's 11.

What can you do?

Yes, I flip as well then feel I've massively over reacted

I think you have to stop trying to control him. At 12 he shouldn't need you to check everytime he's brushed his teeth or not. If he doesn't - he has had the consequences explained enough by you and the dentist I'm sure.

This phase will end when he likes the idea of girls. No girl will want him with scuzzy teeth!

It's time limiting so don't fight the battle, I say.

There's no point fighting it anyway, as you've said. It doesn't help. It just winds you up and doesn't affect him. Kids will lie - it's human nature. They are powerless in life, one of the only ways they get any power at all is to lie.

Perhaps it is time to stop micro managing him about things like teeth.

A little nudge in the right direction might help though, tell him for instance that you're going to trust him to be grown up about teeth but that you have spoken to the dentist who will know whether he has been doing it, and if he hasn't, then there's a consequence, maybe a monthly trip to the dentist for the hygeinist to give him a nasty thorough clean?

I've always said to my DCs that whatever bad things they might do, it would never be as bad as lying to me about it. I can't stand my DCs lying to me (although they do, I know).

So no advice, but lots of sympathy. All you can really do is just keep calling him on it, every time - don't let any lies go unchallenged.

A little hope maybe. My sister recommended a book called 7 habits of Effective Teenagers by Sean Covey. Its well written and there's some funny stuff in there so we (me and son) have both been looking at it.

Its got an idea in there called the Personal Bank Account - so every time you are kind, even a smile, go the extra mile, spend some time on yourself, pay a compliment to yourself or someone else - you are putting credit in the account. A high deposit level in the account means you will feel good about yourself, and feel empowered. Adults would call it charisma.

Things like being mean, beating yourself up, dodging issues or tasks are withdrawals. Lying is a major withdrawal.

We'd looked at it a few weeks ago, but he hasn't mentioned since, until yesterday. Came home saying that the day had got off to a bad start, but he had been working hard to build up the credit on his bank account and had received 5 credits (housepoints) at school.

Now whether this last bit is true or not (I think it is) the fact that he is even thinking in terms of the Personal Bank Account and how lies have repercussions is good enough for me.

I agree with the point re micro managing. Problem is he is on a deadline - his teeth are going haywire and he should have had the brace in 6 months. For this treatment (which involves widening the jaw to allow room for all the teeth with extractions - think George Clooney hollywood smile) he has a narrow window of opportunity. The alternative is extractions and 'english teeth.' This is probably why everything has been brought to a crisis point.

People lie to avoid being controlled. I am confrontational - I don't mind having a row to get my own way. My brother is passive and will avoid a row if at all possible HOWEVER he still wants his own way about things, so he lies.

he did it as a response to my mothers unhealthy interest in his life.

Tell him he'll lose his pocket money/ Wii/ no dvds for a day... blah blah blah, if he doesnt do what he's told. You only have a few years left of being able to assert these kind of things over him - make the most of it. he has to learn its unacceptable.

Confrontational - you colditz - never!

I am sure in part it is about setting new boundaries as you grow up. But people lie for all different reasons. But in my son's case it is more about habit.

Sorry. I should have made myself a little clearer.

Re-reading my post it does sound like I am focussing on the toothbrushing issue whilst what I was hoping to convey was that if you keep on his case, he will probably keep on lying.

He will lie to avoid getting in to trouble with you or just as a purely obstinate response to your 'nagging' so to speak. It might even be a response to feeling too controlled hence my suggestion that you pass total responsibility to him.

It could be more empowering for him to think that his life is his responsibility and mum and dad are not always going to be there to sort it all out and make sure everything goes smoothly.

I think it would be more empowering than the kind of reward/punishment solution offered by Sean Covey.

I would also add that all kids lie, it is quite common. Just Google 'Why do kids lie" and see what you get.

We have the same issues with (not) toothbrushing and lying about it (and other things) with my Ds aged 13.

Glad I'm not the only one.

We are currently in a regime of supervising toothbrushing. He has to tell us when he's going to bed & we come up to monitor his brushing technique. If he goes to bed having forgotten to get his toothbrushing evidenced, then it's not computer the next day.

The idea is that he gets back into the habit of toothbrushing properly, as I don't want to be doing this long term. However, this doesn't tackle th lying habit i will look into the 'Personal Bank Account' idea.

I haven't read the whole book.But the thing I liked about the Covey book is that it is NOT reward and punishment - it is self empowering.
The message is its your life, the way you deal with stuff will change the way life treats you. I really liked that.

I am sure this is a boy thing, but since he's been small his catch phrase has been 'why do these things keep happening to me?' Simple refusal to take responsibility for stuff, which when you are six is not a problem, but when you are 12 certainly is a problem. This could be where the lying/avoidance thing comes in. This and the fact that with a job and three kids, I'm a fairly easy target to lie to.

I really need him to take responsibility for himself.

But he also really needs these braces!

Hmmm. Not convinced. A personal bank account sounds like a grown up sticker chart to me but I will take your word for it.

It does sound like the toothbrushing this is more urgent than the lying thing but obviously both need dealing with.

I would still advocate stepping back on both counts.

I'm a bit concerned about this blanket "he is lying because you are micro managing" as I know my dd is lying as a form of attention seeking behaviour, of course the cure for that is more positive attention regularly surely?