My 5 yr old DD is rude. How do I deal with her? Help!

[greenday]

I am really at a loss. She is defiant. Nothing I say / do helps at all.

She says 'bad mummy' and 'I hate you'. She tells grown-ups that she doesn't like them. It's so embarrassing.

There are many more instances but I'll spare the details as they somehow come out sounding so mundane and common. But I'm writing this for help because I really really am at a loss.

Nothing is without a struggle, war of words, etc. I am losing patience. Most times in the evenings, I am sooo close to stooping to her level and saying hurtful stuff back to her. She's only 5. And my DH and I have always been careful to set good examples with manners, thoughtfulness, etc.

Does anyone have any advice? Any success stories? I need to be encouraged.

I know it's all part and parcel of parenting and for the child, growing up. But I already feel like I'm losing my DD and very soon, it will all be too late if I don't handle this phase well enough.

I just can't seem to find the suitable balance in handling her. Should I be stricter, or 'ignore' it so it blows over, or what?? Help!

ignore, ignore, ignore.
the less she sees what she says aggrivates you the more likely she is to stop it as there simply is no point.

my sister went through this fase - the i hate you or i don't like you/them - and i remember my mum calmly saying back once ' well i don't think they like you either, so thats good isn't it' and she didn't try it on again.

just don't engage with her when shes doing this, just say, well il talk to you again when your being nice or sensible.

you have to kind of detach your emotions from this, as it just makes them worse.

good luck

DD's best friend does this. She is attention seeking. She wants any kind of attention from her parents, even negative, "go-to-your-room" attention. She says some breathtakingly rude and hurtful things, I was stunned at her.

But I have noticed that: most of the attention she gets is when she is naughty. Her baby brother gets most attention. If she whines she is given food/TV to keep her quiet. She gets no messages about the good stuff, but when she is naughty she gets mummy, then daddy on the phone, then "long talks" about why she shouldn't do it. The thing is, she never gets that kind of 1-1 normally unless she is naughty. So she keeps being naughty, and she keeps getting her dad's full attention when she does.

So by accident, her parents are keeping the cycle going.

We were round there the other day and DD was sitting with me while we watched telly and I was cuddling her and I saw her friend's face...the jealousy was incredible, I don't think she ever just sits with her parents like that, then she came over and tried to "butt in" but being only 6, her social skills meant she just tried to plop down and hten started talking rubbish...just to get my attention.

I'm not saying you are doing any of these things but this is what I observed at her house, so possibly some of these happen in yours?

I haven't really got any useful advice but just wanted to let you know you are not alone! DS2 went through a phase of doing this. I tended to ignore or just say something like "well, I'll always love you even when you are feeling cross with me" and then try to change subject/divert attention. If he said it to someone else I made sure I told him it would hurt their feelings but tried not to make a huge issue of it.

However this did backfire on me most embarrassingly once when DS2 was cross that I rang the bell on the bus when he wanted to do it. He said very loudly "I hate you!", to which all the passengers turn round and look. So I said "well I'll always love you" to which he replied even louder "NO MUMMY YOU DIDN'T HEAR ME, I SAID I HATE YOU!!" Got off bus red faced to much muffled sniggering

my ddis currently 4 and having lots of screaming fits about nothing at the moment - you know the type you say 'cheese' and she wanted you to say 'biscuit' so abuse for 10 ranting minutes. i've decided to try and cut sugar esp jam out of her diet, as of Monday and she's screaming a lot less.

so my tip is look at her diet.

Thank you all for your advice. They are gratefully noted.

I have one question with regard to the 'ignore-tactic'. Her rudeness usually arises when it is time for her to do something that she doesn't want to. You know, the usual dinner time, bath time, homework, bed time, brush teeth, etc ... so how do I ignore it but still get her to do what she is supposed to do?

While I understand that I should ignore her shoutings of 'I hate you' when I've asked her to go straight to the bath, the problem is that, she still has to go to the bath. So while I have been trying my best to rise to the occasion, and ignoring her insults, and pressing on with repeated commands, requests, threats, pleadings .. to go to her bath .. she continues pressing with her 'you're a bad mummy', 'I don't like mummy' insults.

I hope I'm making sense here.

And also, if I ignore her ... won't she end up thinking that these words are acceptable?

Argh, and one more question - if I ignore her ... won't she learn to ignore me too? Ie, she realises that instead of using hurtful words, maybe the more effective tactic is to ignore me when I am desperately trying to get her to do homework, etc ..

Feels like a never-ending cycle.

I'm so confused.

But you aren't ignoring it if you are ' pressing on with repeated commands, requests, threats, pleadings .. to go to her bath' - then you just want to be calmly saying 'bath, now' and taking her to the bath, and not engaging with the behaviour at all.

i would tell her, that it doesn't matter what she says or thinks, she has to do what the thing is, ie, bath, or let her go without it and let her stink and get laughed at at school im pretty sure she will be hopping into the bath everyday if she gets that reaction!

sorry that was a bit harsh lol.
maybe just tell her why she has to do these things, and like i said, tell her that you don't care what she says its still being done.

I've just come out of the other side of a screechy-divilchile phase (thankfully short lived, combination of me leaving dd with SIL 4 days a week while I did an extra project at school, sense of abandonemet blah blah)

I do agree that for a small child, any attention is better than none, so even shoutymum negative attention for them is good. Dd just didn't seem to get that she screamed, I shouted, she cried, was bad....

So, definitely if you can ignore, then do so.

If you can't, like with teeth/baths etc, then speak in an even quieter voice than usual. Bizarrely I've found that works to diffuse a situation. They strop, you don't ignore, but respond really calmly, quietly and zen-like, child thinks "??? what's up with her then, hasn't she noticed I'm having a tanty?" and forgets to continue with it!

I say to them that there is no way I will reconsider anything I've said if they speak to me rudely or shout at me, but that there is a chance I will if they speak to me nicely and present a sensible argument. And then I engage with them on a person-to-person basis, rather than adult(boss)-child(minion). I take them, and their desires adn arguments seriously when they take me seriously.

So:

"No! I won't clean my teeth! I hate you!"

gets answered with: "Please don't speak to me like that, it is completely unnecessary and I will not reconsider when you speak to me like that. Try with a nicer voice, nicer words and maybe we can discuss it properly"

Hopefully we then get "I hate cleaning my teeth, Mummy because it hurts/I dont' like the toothpaste/whatever" or maybe they dont' know the reason, and it's about the fact that it's something they have no control over, which must feel horrible.

So I would say 'ok, it's important you clean your teeth or they could get bad and that hurts...a lot! Hurts so much you would just cry and cry. However, if you hate the toothpaste, then howabout we go without a teeth cleaning just this once tonight, and we go and get you some tomorrow that tastes better? Or howabout I be extra specially careful to brush them without hurting you, and you can ring this bell every time it hurts so I know? Or howabout you be in charge of brushing your teeth, because I know how grown up you are, and I just come and check afterwards? (then when you check say 'there's just a little bit you've missed - shall I do it?'). Or howabout we get you some of that clever chewing gum and then you could just clean your teeth once a day? Or would you enjoy having a reward chart and getting a star every time you brush your teeth. Or whatever.

Be open minded and creative with children's problems and take them seriously and they're way more likely to take you seriously. And if you think they're attention seeking, then they need attention - not for that thing, but they clearly are showing you that theyr'e not getting enough of your time and love and you need to address that problem too.

Again, thank you all for your advice. I see there is a consensus of IGNORE, KEEP CALM.

I will make the effort and hope to come back to you all with positive reports.

(Greenday goes off to chant the mantra 'ignore .. keep calm .. ignore .. keep calm ..)

I think kids go through a "naughty" phase at 5. I ignored DS, until I was fed up of him saying "bum" 100 times a day. Then calmly told him that words was banned, if I heard it "punishment" I can't remember what it was now, but it worked. DDs have both been meaner. DD2 uses 4 letter words (older siblings).
The best thing is to give lots of attention and praise for good behaviour, star charts can be good. Catch them being good (hard work) and reward, ignore bad behaviour. You can occasionally use I language to explain how nasty language makes you feel. Also inform if you can't trust them to be good you can't take them to playground/friends house etc.

Good luck.

I think, the 'give positive comments' advice is the key here.

I find with my dcs when they are going through a grumpy, scratchy phase, that oftn my only communication with them is negative.

Think really carefully. How often do you tell her she has done something well or praise her for good behaviour?

Can you try really hard to 'up' the positive coments? Try to be specific about what you are praising e.g. good girl for holding my hand/putting your shoes on/flushing the loo/bringing your plate to the kitchen.

Also, give a time-warning about what is about to happen. e.g. ''bath time in 5 mins dd''. I warn them when I am going up to run the bath and that when I call them, they need to come straight up. When at the aprk, they get 5/10 min warnings for when we are about to leave - doesn't always stop the tantrums, but does help, I think.

Can you distract her with something nice to do after she has finished her bedtime routine? e.g. choose a book that you will read together at bedtime.

Also, try to make up some ridiculous stories to keep things lighthearted.

And, if all else fails, maybe a sticker chart for specific achievments e.g. saying goodbye politely when she leaves a friend's house.

With things like bath/brushing teeth I always give the DCs a couple of warnings, ie: 5 minutes to brush-teeth time, then 2 minutes to brush-teeth etc. If DS2 won't come when I finally tell them it's time I usually count to 5 - he is always there before I get to 4!!

i completely agree with child of the 70s i usually set out an outline of what we be doing that day to my DD and then give her countdown warnings ie, in 10 mins we will go get ready for bed etc if she stills has a paddy i will ignore her if its dinner or brushing hair etc but when it comes to bed time my DD loves stories so i will give her the warnings and then say i will give you a minute to think about what you want to do and then I will count to 5 and then the stories are gone. Then I will walk away and pretend im busy for a minute tidying etc and then go back and say are you ready. for the first few nights she may scream shout but then when they realise you will follow through with your intentions while giving no attention or cuddles etc for bed mine usually starts crying and saying sorry can i have stories?? she tries to play me. So i usually say well you havent behaved tonight and i gave you the warnings you chose to ignore me so no stories tonight. But we can start afresh tomorrow and if you behave then we will have stories and big cuddles etc. My DD quickly learnt that being naughty incurred too many fines and being good meant treats and one to one time.

DD does resistance, but not rude, just "I don't want to".

Basically I do not raise my voice (although sorely tempted) and just go on with "but we all need to clean our teeth" and "some things need to be done, then we can get onto the fun things"

She will often yell for daddy so then I say "daddy would say the same thing, he wants you to look after your teeth as well"

And never let her off "just this once" because then she'll try it twice (bitter experience emoticon)

If she is hurtful and rude I say "we do not talk to each other like that" and "mummy and daddy don't speak like that" and "we all have to live together, lets be kind to each other" and similar.

With DD's really rude friend I either ignore or tell her I don't talk to rude people as they are not worth the trouble, but I do talk to people who are considerate. Once she said "you are not listening to me" and I replied "you haven't said anything that's worth replying to". Ouch, that was mean of me, but when a child is saying "poo poo bum" endlessly, how can you repsond to drivel like that?

I also appeal to DD's practical side "the quicker we do teeth the more stories we get" and so on.

DD is 4.5. I get quite a bit of this.
we had a time a few weeks ago when she refused to get dressed herself. everymorning was a complete tantrum

I told her that i was not going to argue with her. she had to get dressed as she was going to nursery and i knew she could do it herself. and that if she didnt get dressed she would go to nursery in her pjs.

i told nursery that this might actually happen.

luckily it didnt. first time she did it with no argument i praised her massivley and brought her a little treat. she now gets dressed all by herself, every morning with no moaning.

Also, I think it helps to distinguish between expressing frustration to you and being rude to outsiders. I could and did ignore "I hate you mummy" quite calmly, but rudeness to strangers got a very swift response, not least from the point of view of damage limitation (want others to see I don't think it's acceptable). Dcs seemed to pick up on the difference pretty quickly; they can (and do) still talk back at me, but they are not rude to teachers or friends' parents.

Message withdrawn

Thank you all. I have to admit that I have a short fuse and tend to raise my voice once I'm agitated. DD definitely knows the right buttons to push.

She shouts into our faces, if, for eg, she has asked a question .. and we didn't hear it. She behaves like she's sooo angered.

I will be calm, speak calmly and ignore.

And yes, in response to Miggsie's post .. DD has a younger brother. But nothing in their everyday behaviour and activities suggest to me that she is jealous of the attention he gets (yes, to some extent, I am sure .. as it is only normal of sibling rivalry). I feel it is more likely that she is influenced by her classmates/friends (as most are older and more matured .. DD is youngest in class) combined with a 'need' to show off her independence. Not that I'm deflecting the blame from home.

PS - mm2 / childof70s .. yes to all you've suggested, I do the whole 15min warning, down to 10min, 5min and so on. And both DC get to choose 2 books for bedtime ...

Dapeth - good point about positive reinforcements. I think I praise her, but you have a point about thinking really carefully .. maybe I haven't done it enough.