Kind methods to get my 2.9 year old to sleep through the night

[Goldenbear]

Can anyone recommend any methods of getting a nearly three year old to sleep.

I can honestly say that my DS has never really slept through the night since he was born without some kind of disturbance. Before we moved (6 months ago!) he did go from about 9 - 5am. At 5 I would sleep next to him until 7, 8. However, most nights for the past 2 months or so he calls me in about 4am.

He is a fairly intense, highly strung little chap and finds it very difficult to relax. Therefore going to bed often takes an hour or more.

I want to change things as I'm feeling fairly down, I think from the lack of sleep for the last 2,9 years and I want to have a second child but contemplating the demands of a newborn and my DS in the middle of the night has postponed these plans.

My friend recommended gradual withdrawal but my DS just won't accept it. I have not moved further than lying next to him to get him to sleep, which is what I always do anyway.

Can anyone recommend methods that don't involve leaving him to cry or any good books?

You could try changing the position of his bed.

We found that DS3 slept far better after we had done his bedroom up and his bad faces a different direction now. I know it sounds strange, but often people sleep differently depending on their bed position and we found it worked. Worth a try?

DS1 was similar in needing us to be with him as he went to sleep but it is exhausting so I really would say that your friend's suggestion is good - and kind to your DS or he will rely on your presence as he gets older which can be a real problem. Sit on the end of his bed and make it clear you are not going anywhere just yet but that you won't be lying with him and will sit at the end of his bed. Once he is happy with that routine, you can gradually move a bit further away, sitting nearer the door. Then you can leave him and say you just have to pop to the loo/wash up/turn on the oven/any excuse to leave the room but let him know you will go and check on his shortly and make sure that you do go back after about 5 minutes, gradually extending the time between leaving him and going back. You will find in time that when you go back to check on him, he will have dropped off by himself.
Same applies to early morning wakings (poor you). If he knows you always keep your promise of coming back to check on him, he is far more likely to learn to go to sleep on his own, feeling secure that you will be back to check on him even if by then he is in fact asleep. HTH.

Thanks displayuntilbestbefore. I will try the bed direction suggestion, like you said, 'worth a try'!

Also, I will try 'Gradual withdrawal' properly from tomorrow night, perhaps on reflection I was rushing the stages. I just need to reassure him that it is ok for me to sit at the end of the bed. How long did it take for this process to have an effect on your DS1?

Hi Goldenbear, I totally sympathize with you because my DS did not sleep through til he turned 3 (just before Xmas), which could not be better timing as I AM now pg with No 2, and it was one of the reasons why we left a bit of a gap. He now wakes occasionally and wants me to go in, but I don't need to stay. The rest of the time he sleeps through or just goes back to sleep by himself.

I tried a few things over the years, but I don't believe that all children react the same to controlled crying, and this wasn't something I was prepared to do (despite the desperation!), I did however start doing gradual retreat. I looked in the No-Cry Sleep Solution book, and the Millpond book for ideas. But whilst starting the gradual retreat, I found that what finally worked was reasoning - ie. he had got to the age where he could understand that I was not happy with getting up in the night - I explained I was really tired, and that he had everything he needed in the bed, but if he really wanted me I would come down. That and bribery - I didn't do the sleep fairy as I wasn't sure he would go for this, but he has a treat jar and when he slept through he would get something (small) out of the treat jar. Sometimes this would be the first thing he thought of when he woke up. We are now doing this for not waking us til 7am, even if he wakes up before and it really helps.

Luckily he has never had a problem with going to bed in the evening, it would just be from about 1am onwards. We also realized that the heating coming on was not actually waking him up, but keeping him awake if he did wake early - the low level buzz in his room - next to the boiler, and waiting til he was up before we switched it on helped. It was cold (we have underfloor heating that needs to heat up!), but worth it!

I have found that his sensitivity is vastly improved through getting more sleep and we are no longer running late for nursery or preschool. He has always been really well behaved, but once he was sleeping well he seemed much happier.

Do you ask him what he needs at 4am, or tried to talk about it at another time in the day? It could also be that he is about to grow out of it - I think this was another element in DS finally sleeping better, I think some children do just need to grow out of it. Oh, one another thing, at the time it was a real step backwards, but I let him have his beaker of milk in bed again around the same time - I found that he would just drink half, and then he would polish the rest of it off in the night, whcih I think helped. A couple of times I sneaked in a 10 or so to check there was still some left and filled it up if there wasn't. It would always be gone by morning. Then after a couple of weeks I explained that he only needed water in the night and stopped doing it. So what seemed like a massive step backwards at the time was only temporary.

Good luck!

At some point, he will realise that he isn't getting precisely what he wants, and, because he is two years old, he will cry about it.

You need to just accept this. You're not being cruel just because he is crying. It is not reasonable to demand that another person acts as your pillow all night.

Actually once a child is close to 3, controlled crying is no longer recommended. It needs to be when they are babies really.

hi Goldenbear ... very long post from me coming your way, I hope it's helpful and apologies for the sloppyness, it's so hard to remember everything and in what order especially when you have a dc who is not the best sleeper in the world.

I could have written your past almost to the letter. I have been doing gradual withdrawal with my dd for some time now and finally (fingers crossed) we are getting somewhere, BUT it has taken a long long time. Here's our backround and the method(s) we've been using. I'm not sure how much if any is relevant to you and your situation but I know from experience that even if one thing helps it is a step closer back to feeling like a normal human being rather than a zombie at the end of a it's tether.

DD (2.11) and I have been (fully) co-sleeping since she was 18mths after I got fed up with constantly getting up in the night. Since dd was about 2 yrs old we've tried to get her back into her own bed 4 or 5 times, each time something happens (usually illness) to bring her back into my bed. We tried all sorts, giving her more milk, reducing her milk, changing from full fat to semi to skim back to semi. We tried earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, no tv before bed, "gentle" tv programme before bed, big tea, little tea, later tea, earlier tea, bedtime snack, no bedtime snack,sleeping on the floor in her room, not sleeping in her room. We have always sat with her until she falls asleep ... which these days is about 5 mins as she no longer naps. The only thing we have never done is leave her to cry - that's not for us.

For the last few months (yes! months!) I have been sleeping on the floor next to her bed. Same bedtime routine. When she woke in the night a quick pat (usually but not always) and a Ssshh sleepy time got her back to sleep quickly. The first night I did this she woke up every half hour, the second night every couple of hours, the third night only a couple of times and so we continued in this up and down way (but never as bad as the first couple of nights) we had got to an ok place with her waking once or maybe twice a night and me getting a reasonable amount of sleep. I was reluctant to try and move on from this as did not want to go back to sleepless nights. A couple of weeks ago we went on hoiday and dd ended up coming up with us in the middle of the night (couldn't sleep on the floor). Also at this point we decided it was a good opportunity to stop her bedtime milk - she protested the first night for about 10 mins but that was that really(we had wondered if the milk was making her wee more in the night and waking her up - even though she still wears a nappy to bed). When we got back from holiday we put her straight back in our bed (things not set up in her room as we'd used it to dump suitcase etc) but after a couple of days we decided it was time to pick up where we'd left off. This time though we had set up a star chart with a star given for every night she stayed in her own bed (with me sleeping in her room) - of course she had already been doing this prior to holiday but we wanted her to have a sense of achievement. After 6 stars she got a present. Also during this time I began to leave the room before she was asleep ...so, stories, lights off, bedtime song, kiss and cuddle and then I would "sit on my spot" a small circular rug from Ikea. After 30 seconds I would whisper "I'm just going to the loo, I'll be back in a minute" and off I'd go returning within 30 seconds, popping my head in the door and saying "oh I've just got to turn the kitchen light off, I'll be back in a minute" and so on until she was asleep 5-10 mins. The next night I left a longer time beween returns. And so on through the week.
The second week a new star chart and a new challenge - dd to stay in her own bed and me to sleep all night in my bed, dd to try not to call me in the night explaining that the better sleep we have the better fun we can have the next day. First night I was up about 7 times over the space of about an hour and a half, a quick kiss and cuddle, a reminder of the star chart and then back to my own bed. A few hours of uniterupted sleep and then back in again to give her a kiss and cuddle (she never gets out of her bed she just calls!). Second night better with being called about 4 times over the space of an hour and then again a few hours later, each time I went in. The third night called in about 6 times (getting hazy here!) the first time I went in, the second time I called out to her from my door to go back to sleep reminding her that she was sleeping in her bed and I was sleeping in mine - still had to go into her, third time tried that again I got back in bed and she was quiet. 4th time I had to go into her and the next couple of times I just spoke to her from my door. Night before last she called to me about 7 times over and hour and a half, I went into her twice and rest of the time I spoke to her from my door. Last might she woke up at about 2.30, I spoke to her from my door and went back to bed, at 6am she called me again and cheekily (!) I spoke to her from my door and told her it was still night time and to go back to sleep ...she said "ok" and then woke for the day at 7. OMG AMAZING! to be fair though it was her first afternoon back at nursery and then we went to the park so she was probably very worn out. During this time I have continued the gradual withdrawal at betime and for the lasst few nights have given her a kiss and cuddle, and immediately said I'm "just going to whatever and be back in a minute" (have left door open a bit too and she has night light but hall light is off) and then gone off and usually sat here on mumsnet for 15 minutes until I know she's asleep (use baby alarm) and then shut her door (never fully). I'm still expecting to have some rough nights and tonight may not be as great as last night but I really feel like this time, this time we are getting somewhere. I hope so because like you I am so so so tired and my patience is more or less at breaking point.

So, to summarise this is what is working for us (famous last words) 6pm tea, bath (but not always), tv (yes! before bed!), no milk, brush teeth, into bed at about 7.15pm, stories until 7.30pm, lights off, bedtime song, kiss and cuddle, me popping off to the loo or whatever, dd usually asleep by 7.45pm. Sticker chart and making a big thing of a successful night the next morning, not making a big thing of it if not a great night. Explaining to dd every night what is expected to happen and why. Trying to not go in to dd but talking to her from the door but knowing when this isn't going to work and responding to her needs asap to stop her waking up fully and getting distressed.

It has taken us a long time to get there with many ups and downs and trying lots of different things. Who knows it could just be her "time". I'm hoping that things improve to the point of putting her to bed and not seeing her again until morning time unless I sneak in for a little look to watch her sleeping

I really really feel for you, it's a long hard slog. Hope some of this gives you something different to try - good luck in finding he combination of things that work for you and your dc

of course I've forgotten something. A lot of the time dd wanted a drink of water which was always by her bed anyway ... at bedtime I started to remind her where her water was and told her that she didn't need to call me for that she could just "do it herself" ... "do it myself" is a BIG thing for her so on those occassions when I tried not to go into her and she said "mummy I want a drink of water" I tell her that she knows where her water is and that she can do it herself, when I hear the clank of the drink cup back on her table I tell her "good girl, you did it all by yourself, I'm so proud of you" ...

MissWooWoo, that is what I did too regarding doing things himself - finding bear, drinking water, finding dummy, pulling up covers, etc

DS slept badly until he was about 2y3m then started sleeping through, then DD arrived which threw it back but we seem to be back to normal (ish) now, he's 3. I think MrsWW has mentioned some of these but not 100% sure (sorry don't have time to read it all)

• Sitting with him then saying "I'm just off to the toilet / fold some clothes / etc, I'll be back in 10 minutes to check on you". He protested a lot less than we thought - and the loo thing was the truth - I was heavily pg

• Bribery. Make a big fuss of the chocolate buttons or whatever. Talk about them the night before. Give them, with huge ceremony the next day because he's been a big boy and slept all night without waking mummy and daddy.

Other than tht - can he get in and out of bed? How would telling him when he wakes up he can get in with you as long as he's quiet (of course the risk there is that 4 will turn into 3, into 2...), but might just help on the odd night.

Things are OK with us now, and we've never consistently done any strict routine. That said I do get up at 5 with him

and I might add I am fucking shattered and not in the best of spirits during the day at the moment - everything is more or less getting me down and I have very little energy for being the greatest mum in the world. But you know what? I'm giving myself a break (for once) and not trying to do too much. I'm keeping in mind that sleep deprivation is used as a form of torture and it's no wonder I feel so down, I'm also keeping to the forefront that this isn't the "real" me and that once I get this sleep thing cracked life will be so much nicer. Chin up.

MrsWW
You are right, in a few months hopefully you'll look back on this as a difficult time. I'm hoping the same

oh and another very important thing I forgot to mention is that I have moved my "top quilt" (fancy shiny blanket) to my dd bed, it's massive obviously so half sits on her bed and half on the floor (useful if I have to go in and sit with her for a bit as we don't have heating on at night as we all get too hot). I thought maybe she might get comfort from it

yes SPB this is definately not my finest hour as a mum but I'm pretty sure "this will pass" (although still feeling guilty and unworthy of course)

Gradual withdrawl worked for us. It took us nealry 2 weeks to get out of DD's room, it is that gradual, the idea is you sit on a sleepy cushion until they are asleep then stay for 10 minutes after, this is also done at night. Change the posotion of the cushion every 3 days until you are out of the door and on the landing. worked like a dream with DD.

GoldenBear
Sorry not to reply to your question before now, Been busy with RL!
I can't recall exactly how long it took for the gradual withdrawal method to work with DS but I do know that you have to get a balance between being firm with DS so he knows and understands the process but at the same time be led to a certain extent by him in terms of recognising how far is enough to go with each stage.
Several friends have also been through the same and you are certainly not alone with this problem but from my own experience and chatting to friends in similar situations, the gradual stages of staying with your DS and working your way to being able to leave him for short periods to settle on his own does work but you need to stick with it, keep a firm reminder in your own head that it will benefit him as much as it will you (no-one wants to unwittingly end up with a child who can't sleep without a parent lying next to them) and that perseverance will win the day. Some children are more needy at night but it's helpful to them to break the habit of needing company until they are asleep.
Even if it means you sitting on a chair on the landing for a while, it would be a breakthrough because you wouldn't be in his bed or even in his room, he would be able to see/hear you and know you're there for his own comfort, and for your own comfort you would be able to possibly sit and read while he goes to sleep. You can often then head downstairs to get on with your own evening once DS is sleepy enough to not really be aware of who is and isn't there.
DH and I have found the "just going to pop to the bathroom for a minute and I'll check on you afterwards" really works and if you always go and check after 5 mins or so and then gradually extend the time, your DC will get to know that he can trust you when you promise to go and check and after a while you will find you can leave it 15 mins and go back up to see him sleeping happily, having gone to sleep on his own. When you reach that point, make sure that in the morning you give lots of praise for him going to sleep on his own like a big boy and make sure you mention that you had gone back to check on him but that he had already gone to sleep on his own and how proud you felt. Sounds OTT but you will get there I'm sure

Many thanks for all the replies. The detailed guidance is really very helpful as I feel a little more on control when I know exactly what I am to do.

I actually have an IKEA circular little seat cushion so I used that as my 'spot' tonight and placed it at the end of his bed. He surprisingly did not object and fell asleep an hour earlier than his normal 9 bedtime!

Following suggestions I discussed the new plans with him at dinner time and that I was very tired, that we have lots to do tomorrow so he should go to bed earlier tonight so that we can enjoy those things. Maybe some of it sunk in as he did not get upset with me when I said was going to sit on the 'spot' tonight.

Also, I have created a new sleep sticker chart that he already seems enthusiastic about. Last week we did Potty training and used a sticker chart for that. He responded really well to it. I was really surprised as I thought he might get upset about having one at a time but he didn't, in fact I said I owed him 2 stickers and he corrected me and insisted it was one! Anyway I digress.

Thanks again for your tips and for taking the time to write very detailed responses.

wonderful Goldenbear ... it sounds like you've got off to a really good start.

Last night for me was brillant ... dd asleep by 7.45 and she did not wake until 5.50am!!! I called to her from my room that it was still sleepy time and to go back to sleep until morning which she did til 7.45am. RESULT! Long may it stay this way

Keep it up Goldenbear you'll get there.