8 years after moderate drinking in pregnancy, can you detect FAS?

[sohighoh]

Browsing through the mumsnet archive recently, I found this thread here here and thought it could offer some insight into the drinking in pregnancy debate.

Most posters here admit to moderate drinking, which has an upper limit of about 8 units a week. Given that the thread was started in 2002, the children of the pregnancies discussed here should all be at least 8 years old now.

This is when the anti-alochol brigade say that some mental retardation on the Foetal Alcohol spectrum can be detected (ie poor concentration, poor hand -eye coordination, ADHD) as opposed to full-blown Foetel Alcohol Syndrome, which is detectable at birth, and is the result of very heavy drinking (ie 40 units +)

So, my question is, if any of your original posters from this thread are still here, do any of you attribute any of these symptoms in your children, and if so, would you link it to your moderate alcohol in pregnancy?

(I write with no judgement by the way, given that I drunk on average 3 x 175 ml glasses of wine in pregnancy a week, which works out as 6 units)

Look, Foetal Alcohol Spectrum stuff is a misogynistic, ignorant myth designed to blame women for anything that might be a problem with DCs that could be due to a variety of reasons (industrial pollution, genetic,s let alone the pharmaceutical industry and the GOvernment both being ever so keen to medicalise difference).
I drank quite a bit while PG, my DS is 5 and the slight (aleged) delay in fine motor skills he has is actually very common in small boys and improving all the time, so it;s extremely unlikely to have anything to do with alcohol. Other than that he's extra-bright and advanced in his language skills.

I have had to research this topic and have to say that it does seem to be one of those syndromes conveniently created by Psychology to support and enhance moral judgments. On women.

The evidence is pretty lame and doesn't take into account many many many unknown variables because that is nigh on impossible, but still would be interested to see what response you do get here.

My 10 year old has all those things (poor concentration, poor hand -eye coordination, ADHD) but I didn't drink a drop in pregnancy.

Sorry to hear that MumsInBeds - I hope you're getting help with those issues.

I agree Solid & Lady: hence why i really hope more women respond to this. If the Dept of Health can't come up with the facts and insist in patronising us stupid, then maybe we can collect the raw data ourselves. If lots of moderate drinkers report no such incidents, and yet non-drinkers report problems then we may have more evidence to shout down the misogynists...

"it does seem to be one of those syndromes conveniently created by Psychology to support and enhance moral judgments"

Really? - unlike you I've not researched it all, but had thought that FAS was unequivocally related to excess alcohol consumption. If that is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if there were not some consequences to moderate drinking during the gestational period. After all, alcohol is quite a potent toxin isn't it? If I am wrong - please do educate me. I'm interested!

FAS is not just related to alcohol consumption, there is also a genetic element to it.

You can drink a bottle of vodka a day, but if you haven't got the right combination of genes, your DC won't be born with FAS (though they may be born with other problems, of course).

And isn't moderate drinkers reporting no symptoms in their children an analogous argument to the one the pro smoking lobby used to use i.e. "My nan smoked 40 a day and never suffered a days ill-health in her life)

I didn't know there was genetic element

Will follow this thread with interest

I suspect we might find some methodological flaws with this approach to gathering a study group . FWIW, my DS1 belongs to this cohort, I drank probably 4-6 units per week sporadically throughout pregnancy, and he has none of the issues mentioned in the OP. If he has a problem, it's that his concentration is too good, also known as 'screaming at him to get a move on will not be heard' syndrome.

I hadn't actually come across Foetal Alcohol Spectrum (as opposed to full blown FAS) - is there any, umm, y'know, actual research to support this or is it just a fairy tale to scare us naughty mummies?

Ds1 has all these problem,s - alcohol not touched

ha ha gizmo, you're right about the methodology - i have in fact dabbled in the social sciences and was certifiably shit at it

it's definitely a flawed study, but interesting none the less...

HMC: If alcohol was that toxic, the human race would be extinct. Please bear in mind that a couple of generations back pregnant women were encouraged to drink a moderate amount of alcohol eg Guinness for the iron, red wine to help with milk production... and a few generations further back everyone drank weak beer/mead/wine all the time as it was safer than drinking the water.It's not impossible that actual FAS has as much to do with the general poor health and poor self-care of alcoholics (not eating enough nutritious food, possible/probable abuse of other substances etc) as the actual alcohol.

hmc - its along the same lines as excessive drinking leads to liver problems, but there are some health benefits to moderate drinking. Most of our parents would have drunk during their pregnancies.
I had my two small glasses twice a week during both my pregnancies and will with the next. I don't believe there's any risk to the foetus with that amount and if I did i wouldn't do it.

SGM: I am not denying that Foetal Alcohol SYndrome exists (and it definitely has a genetic component: alcoholics on a bottle of vodka a day can give birth to babies that don't have it), more that the Foetal Alcohol spectrum stuff is a collection of mild to moderate 'symptoms' that could be caused by any amount of things and in some cases are not symptoms just difference, and this is being presented as a justification for bullying women into accepting less-than-human status ie no free choice in what to do with their bodies.
Thing is, it's not possible to do a conclusive study because the way to do that would be to take a load of pregnant women and feed half of them loads of alcohol while monitoring every move of every one of them to see that everything else was identical. And that's not possible on ethical grounds let alone physical ones.

I agree with SolidGoldBrass - this is something that we cannot do a conclusive study on.
My DS was born in 2004 - I would have a glass of wine at the end of the week to relax me - my widwife knew about this but was perfectly happy about it - she thought it was more important that I was relaxed.
Also DS was conceived during my honeymoon - and much wine was drinken then!!!!!!
He is now 6 and a perfectly fine little boy.
How much more guilt do mothers have to put up with thinking every single little thing we ever did during pregancy may have somehow blighted our children!!!!
Prob a lot of our mothers drank and smoked while expecting us and we are still here.
I am not condoning excessive drinking or smoking during pregancy but everything in moderation.

I think it's extremely unlikely ONE glass of wine a week would cause any ill effects on a foetus.

But one friend of mine drunk half a bottle of wine twice a week, claiming it was her '2 drinks once or twice a week'.
What's debatable is how much of those 4 units crossed the placenta - half a bottle over a few hours could well have some impact on a baby's nervous system - but whether or not the effects are long term or harmful is another matter.

Stress in pregnancy is frequently claimed to cause the same symptoms. Maybe that's why so many non-drinking mothers have children with the same problems - they were so stressed out trying to do the right thing for 9 months that they harmed their babies that way instead. Or maybe that's as silly as trying to prove that relatively small amounts of alcohol drunk during pregnancy are likely to cause long term harm...

Placenta is not a barrier for alcohol.

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