my ds isn't talking yet

[mummysgoingmad]

my ds is 17months and can only say mum. we have tried getting him so say other things but nothing helps..is this normal? Surely he should be speaking by now? He doesn't point to what he wants or anything so its hard to understand him sometimes which must be frustrating for him.

Is there anything i should be doing or could do to try and spur on his speech??

Is he quite physically advanced? Boys hit the milestones later, and physically advanced kids tend to be less verbal. Mine stops talking for a bit every time she gets a new physical speech, and vice versa.

It's not outside the range of development at all,no need to be worried, just keep talking to him and reading to him and it'll happen.

Mine doesn't say Mum, by the way, it's very galling!

...Sorry, a new physical skill

He was a late crawler and walker too, he has just started walking, thanks for putting my mind at rest, i thought i must be doing something wrong when he isn't talking

I'd relax a bit tbh - my nephew is almost 3yo and isn't talking yet - he can only babble 'mama'. I think you have plenty time to get concerned - he will talk when he is ready.

Read to him plenty, every day, and you will probably find it will all come naturally.

If you do have concerns, how about discussing them with your health visitor? My DS is very physical/active but been slower on talking - now over 2.5yrs but really just starting to put 2 words together (actually gone from 2 words to 3 or 4 over a short time so he's speeding up!). When I raised it with my HV I was told that in my area there are groups they run for children that are low-key but allow gentle intervention by Speech & Language therapists... but only up until 2.5yrs. As it is, I found out yesterday that my nursery have a SLT who comes in and she's going to do a bit of work with my DS (at her suggestion) - I don't view it as being a problem, but I'm quite happy for him to get a bit of help so that his frustration about communicating with others is made easier. But IMO it's worth getting it checked out in case there's another underlying issue, eg hearing (unlikely, but glue ear can cause difficulties).

17 months is still very young. They really do all start talking at different ages. My DD was the same at that age and for a while after actually. I used to see other children of similar ages saying ball and car and lots of other single words and worry I was doing something wrong. But it seemed like something just clicked just before she was two and she went from saying nothing to full sentences in a few weeks. It's almost like she waited until she could do it right before saying anything! I think it's probably like everything else that they all get there in the end and perhaps if they start earlier they do it more slowly (obviously not an expert.) The thing that made me less worried was that I knew she understood what I was saying. How is your son with listening? Can he follow instructions etc? Obviously if your're worried go and see the health visitor but it sounds perfectly normal to me.

I'm only giving you my advice here and don't want you to panic by it...
My dd was 1 and couldn't say anything bar 'mum mum' she was 1st to walk out of my group of friends (and the youngest) 1st to get teeth 1st to eat properly etc although it turned out my daughter had glue ear and was later discovered she had a social communication language disorder, she's now 4 in a special needs school and is more than likely autistic too. My point is if your unsure pester until you get a hearing test. I knew something wasn't right and I battled to get hearing test from my hv. Once this was done everything fell into place. It quite possibly is nothing and he could be taking it all in and one day will come out with a sentence (happened to my friends child) but if your worried what's the harm in getting it checked out??? Like I said my case is extreme but it's taught me to trust my instincts. I hope this helps

I have two children who were like this at 17 months. DS1 grew out of it - had caught up by the time he started school. Ds2 still struggles with some aspects of understanding what other people say at 4.8 through he talks well now. I ignored the problem in DS1 and it went away, but I've spent the last 2 years helping DS2.

As for your child, here is an answer from someone who knows:

"By 18 months a child should be warmly engaged and capable of initiative and two-way communication. She should also be able to use complex gestures to communicate what she wants - taking her mother's hand and leading her to the door or toy chest, or pointing, for example. Without the use of words, she should be communicating with her parents, clearly understanding much of what they say to her, and communicating many of her own wishes back. If by 18 months the child can do these things, her gestural communication is developing on track and the building blocks of symbolic expression and language are present. .......The child who has a circumscribed language problem that will take care of itself will be mastering these preverbal gestural communication patterns."

["The Child with Special Needs", Greenspan, page 386]

So I would watch for pointing - at least by 2.0 - rather than speech per se. Speech is like the icing on a very important cake.

I'm a Speech and Language Therapist and I'd say it might be a good idea to get a referral to SLT services. Most are self-referral so call your GP, ask for SLT services referral number and call in yourself. There's not a whole lot that will happen when you are seen at this early age other than a screening assessment and some basic advice, but it gets you into the system should you need it later (and gives you an idea of what to expect). Services differ widely in what they may offer at this time but good services should give you an assessment, some targeted ideas on how to help your son and an option for review if there is even a 000001% concern.

As above, your boy might be one of the many, many who is just a bit later developing - but if this is the case and he is suddenly un-shut-uppable at 2, it will have done you no harm to have an early assessment. Early intervention is KEY. There are other reasons for late talking other than autism, including dyspraxia and developmental delays. These are relatively rare, but they are a concern, and the earlier intervention begins, the better. It might be something simple holding your child back, like fluctuating hearing loss from lots of green and snotty noses/ear infections, that can be easily cleared up with grommets or the like, but this can't happen if you're not seen. Late talking that isn't targeted can become associated with later reading difficulty so it's worth looking into, IMO.

Professionally, though, I feel I have to say that saying one word at three is a SERIOUS concern and I would be seeking an urgent referral.

I am assuming you are referring to my post mrsbean...the parents have sought advice and when the HV done the standard hearing test he didn't respond (didn't turn his head). I am assuming he is on the radar with SLT because he is going to be starting a 12 week programme at a child development centre next week (one day a week). What usually happens at these centres?? I only find out from MIL about his progress but even then she doesn't know a great deal either.

I would be interested in your response because these kind of situations can happen to anyone. I also don't know any nearly 3yo who isn't at least talking in short sentences, but my nephew seems to be miles behind in his development. thankfully his parents have sought advice now - just hope it isn't too late for him

Hi lovechoc, just picking this up now.
Yes, was posting in response to yours: am always very alarmed when I hear of children of this age who are not talking and not in services yet, so am relieved to hear that he is 'in the system' so to speak.

Services at Child Development Centres (CDC) differ wildly from trust to trust, so I'm afraid I'm not sure what will happen in the 12 sessions you mention. There isn't an equivalent that I'm aware of in the trust I work in. What I can tell you is that usually CDC services revolve around a multidisciplinary team and will involve a thorough assessment of your nephew's needs. Depending on what's going on with him, this can involve different professionals. At a minimum, I'd say a Clinical Psychologist (to assess his learning ability), a Speech and Language Therapist (due to his late talking) and a Paediatrician. There might be other services too, like a Specialist Health Visitor or a Physiotherapist/Occupational Therapist if there are concerns about motor development.

The real concern with late talking is why it is happening, as usually (but not always!) severely delayed talking is associated with other difficulties e.g. learning disabilities, hearing impairment or other developmental issues. I've met many children who have only one word at two who go on to have perfectly reasonable skills with language in later childhood, but it's rare that failure to speak at three is just down to benign individual difference.. rare, but still possible (think Einstein!). I hope this isn't alarming for you but I think it's an important thing to highlight as often, delays in speech and language aren't really seen as that serious, delaying intervention. It is great that your nephew is being seen by professionals now.

my ds has had an onslaught of ear infections, chest infections, throat infections every two weeks, we have ended up in the local childrens hospital twice with tubes up his nose due to a "viral wheeze" (basically an asthma attack they just cant diagnose him as he's too young)

could this effect his development? we havent had illness free month since january and that only because i got really paranoid about the cold and didnt take him over the front door (madness now looking back on it)

Hi mummy,
not long term, no, but definitely worth getting a hearing test done b/c of ear infections.. he might have some gunge in his ears that dampens the clarity of words, making it harder for him to perceive and develop them. Often this will pass by itself, sometimes grommets are needed.

Also, in terms of general language development, think how much you would feel like talking if you were very poorly.. your little lad won't have been focussing his attention on talking through that, which of course can slow things down. But again, a referral will do no harm!

Sounds like you've both been through the mill, hope it improves soon...

thanks mrsbean78 for your advice on my nephew. It also materialised today (after speaking to MIL) that he is only eating jars of baby food - he cannot eat finger foods or regular family meals. I was told months ago that his diet was improving but obviously not. I said to MIL there must be something going on, I'm honestly shocked that he is nearly 3yo and cannot eat regular food. I was going to buy him an Easter egg but glad I didn't after hearing this.

The fact that he's eating jars of baby food, is that going to have an effect on his speech?? Sorry to trouble you, I'm just really concerned now. The parents say very little, MIL feels like she's interrogating just to find out how he is sometimes...

Hi,

I'm reading all of this with interest.
My DS (23 MO) has less than 20 words, though his comprehension / understanding and his ability to carry out tasks is wonderful.

but, what worries me more is that I really struggle to get him to speak - even words I KNOW he knows how to say (like MAMA!!), can take me 10 minutes to extract from him.

Lovechoc - sorry to hear about your nephew. Surely baby jars of food aren't designed for 3YO? So I wonder if he could not be getting the nutrition / sustenence he needs?

harimo in comparison to my nephew sounds like your DS is going to be just fine but I'm no expert and I think mrsbean should be able to give you some reassuring advice soon.

and that's what I thought too about the baby jars of food - I think he may also get mashed up banana but he can't actually eat food with lumps in it. DH just told me an hour ago it's because he gagged last time they tried which is even more frustrating - why have they waited almost a year (since they first tried him on solids like bread or cheese) to seek medical advice?? I don't want to come across as judgemental but surely that's too long to leave it til he's nearly 3yo before seeking SLT help?

I agree with you, Lovechoc, I'm surprised the parents haven't been worried about it - that regime (plus the non-speaking too) must make it impossible for him to socialise with children of his age

(I do wonder, and would love a more knowledgable opinion on this one: Do speech delays cause social skill problems (because of the lack of interaction) or do social skill problems cause a speech delay?... my DS is HIGHLY sociable and can, somehow, communicate with other two years quite well - he spent the afternoon playing cars with a boy the same age as him)

But, for heavens sake... How do you even go out for pizza??? My DS has (for quite some time now!) been able to devour a whole pizza or lasagne at PizzaExpress! (the staple of step-families... what else do you DO on a cold sunday afternoon when you've had to drive back but drop off is at 6pm PRECISELY! Pizza is a sacred routine in my family!!! Feel for your nephew.

The thing is the parents aren't v sociable (hence why we only get info from DH's mum!) - we don't phone because we get the impression they don't really want us to stay in touch. They've never made the effort to phone us either so.... MIL feels like this too - she only visits to see her GC otherwise there wouldn't be any point - the couple don't talk!! It's a difficult one - but yes, I agree, I think because he doesn't really go out to many activities and he does not routinely meet other children, it may be having an affect on him in regards to his social skills. You would think both social skills and speech development would go hand-in-hand?

AFAIK they don't go out for pizza or any other meal - we also think SIL has a food phobia and a phobia of visiting people's houses.

I don't know many couples where both are introverts. Usually you get one extrovert and one introvert in each couple but BIL and his wife seem to both be introverts hence why their DC don't really stand much of a chance of doing v well in life because neither parent seems to be initiating social activities for their DC and the one who has speech difficulties is only just getting seen professionally now. What chance have they got??I don't know if it's just lack of motivation from them or what, but really I feel for the DC.

Think I may start another thread on this, I seem to have hijacked the OP's!

MrsBean78, my son didn't talk at ALL until he was 3 and 4 months, and then it literally took off.

I had already been told that he had a speech delay, and then a severe speech delay, and then a speech disorder!! as he got older and older ! and still no speech.

I don't think the OP needs to worry yet, but I think lovechoc should tell her nephew's parents to have him assessed. I was very laid back when my son failed to meet routine milestones at 18 months, and again at 20 months. When they did ASOS and Disco I thought it was to rule OUT autism. I was so naive when I think back. But like you say MrsBean78, early intervention has made him catch up. At 3 he had global developmental delays across the board, of up to 16 motnhs in some areas (speech) but they were many and varied. And, he was to my absolute horror given a diagnosis of being on the spectrum. It was shocking,but now he's at a specialised school and when I think that this could have been missed and he could just be falling further and further behind,, it makes me shudder. He's doing SO well with ABA and speech therapy that he will start mainstream school just a year later (at five and a half). I was told at my last meeting to discuss his IEP and progress that he was now not only within the range of average but in the higher end of the bracket for what a child of his age usually knows. This would NOT be the case if he were stumbling along in an ordinary play school or preschool. Because children like this do learn in a different way, and that needs to be catered for at this early and crucial stage.

Sorry OP don't mean to make you think that I am saying that all children of 17 months with no words might be on the spectrum!!!! My dc1 had no words at 18 months and she is FINE. Hope I haven't upset you lovechoc. NOt my intention.

Sorry lovechoc, I missed your second post!

Interesting about the jars. I carried on feeding my son jars for AGES because he literally gagged when I tried to introduce the next stage up. I tried and failed and I couldn't face making him gag and mealtimes being really stressful so I carried on feeding him pureed food for FAR too long. Eventually a PHN found out and made me feel really really foolish. She told me that there is a window for learning how to swallow! I felt awful. I felt like one of those mothers on the daily mail website who gives her child burgers and chips ! BUT in my defence, i obviously didn't know that that was all tied up in the same catalogue of 'presentations'. If that is the right phrase. When I was answering the questions (in the surverys for assessment) there were a lot of questions about food and eating, weaning etc...... it surprised me the things that are linked to each other and what is relevant.

Magaly, glad to hear your son is getting good intervention. Are you in Ireland? (Asking because you mention PHN vs Health Visitor?). I used to work in an ABA school in Dublin as a tutor.. many moons ago now..

Feeding/weaning difficulties can be subtly linked to many of the developmental difficulties, including (but not limited to) autism spectrum conditions. There are so many different types of difficulty that can result in difficulties with speaking and feeding, however, that it's hard to make any judgements beyong the fact that it is a serious concern.

IME the main reason that parents do not seek help in situations where there are obvious issues is grief, pure and simple (as if grief ever could be). Not everyone will react by denying, because all people handle these types of situations very differently.. but I have met many parents who have told me after diagnosis that they knew, in their heart of hearts, that something was seriously wrong but they wanted to scoop up their precious baby and head for the hills, hoping that would make it, somehow, not true. Others really don't know, like you Magaly. Others take it on like a lion and become experts on the subject in a very short period of time.. but these are just different ways of coping with something that is very difficult. So it's impossible to judge.

Harimo, not sure what is going on with your LO from that, really.. it could be something as simple as a quiet, calm personality or it could be his speech. I always say to everyone in this situation: get your child assessed. Most areas have waiting lists under control thanks to the Labour targets and nearly all have open door referral so it can do no harm..

The relationship between speech and social communication is a complex one, and can be reciprocal, but not always. I've met kids with severe speech and language disorder who remain sunny and sociable, kids who have become withdrawn because they haven't been understood and kids who have become behavioural.. and these 'outcomes' haven't always been related to the severity of the speech difficulty or factors like familial support etc. There is so much we don't know yet...

Yes, well picked up MrsBean. I am. It is especially lucky that they pushed him into early intervention as I was really in denial for so long.. He still couldn't walk at 20 months old, he had NO words, he was bum shuffling and I still kept saying 'ah he's fine he's fine'. All my aunts and my mother were telling me 'oh Patrick/David/Simon' was just the same and didn't start talking 'til four. etc etc... But looking at my family (extended) I think that we have a lot of very mildly autistic adults amongst us!!. There is a high geek score in my family!!! Physics, maths, engineering. None of them can speak a word of a foreign language though. They are all successful professionally but my entire family had a very distorted perception of what was normal 'nt'/mainstream was, I now realise.

Fascinating thread! I was lurking as my 16 month old is yet to say any intelligable (sp?) other than "dada". She points a lot and says other nonsensical (to me) syllables and has said mama although not really to me as such. You can have a "conversation" with her where she talk in babble but no words. Does that sound normal? My concern was really that she sort of ought to have moved on as she's been dadadadaing for, well, must be 6 months or so. I also find it very hard to tell how much she understands of what I say as she's very willful and can be v grumpy so isn't really into performing on demand as it were! She definitely understands simple things like wave byebye and clap though (without me gesturing)

also not walking yet btw but my family do seem to produce late walkers (my sister - 21 months, me 18 months and my niece 19 months) so i'm thinking I have to blame my genes for that one?! She crawls at lightning speed tho and has been cruising since 8 months

sorry to be another thread hijacker there's just such good helpful advice here!

I have two friends with DS's nearly 3 who aren't talking properly yet.

One has parents who speak another language, so he says odd words in both languages, but not much and it's difficult to tell what he is saying. HV isn't concerned and just says that bilingual kids catch up eventually and not to worry.

The other one is very physical and tries to get away with just pointing and shouting - no words. HV is more concerned about him and says he needs to give up dummy etc... but hasn't recommended any speech therapy.

I was a really late talker. My parents considered speech therapy, but once I started school I began chattering away and have never stopped!