OK, so talk to me about sleep training :(

[sausagedoesnotroll]

In the last two-three months DS (nearly 11 months) has gone from an absolute delight who sleeps 8-8 and has two long naps in the day to a little horror who refuses to go to bed until 10 and wakes 4-5 times a night. I cannot understand quite why, since this has coincided with him becoming mobile, which everyone says makes them sleep better.

In the past we have put it down to teething (though no more teeth have come through) having a cold (which has now gone) and any number of things, but none of these things can really be the explanation over such a long period, surely.

I can usually get him to go back to sleep if I bf him, but he shouldn't really be hungry as he eats plenty of solids and has a big feed at bedtime, and this means I am up for about half an hour eat time he wakes. As he's nearly walking he runs me ragged in the day too, and I am beginning to get to the end of my tether, especially as I am due to go back to work in a few weeks.

I don't like the idea of controlled crying, but I'm getting desperate.

Is it worth trying to shorten or drop one of the daytime naps? Ds is 14 months and I have had to drop the morning nap to get him to sleep until 6.30! ( previously it was 5.30 and getting earlier!!)

Try dropping one of the naps, or if that is impossible, then wake him up from his afternoon nap after about half an hour.

I know it's torture (for you!) to wake a sleeping baby but it's better than them staying up all evening, or having to do controlled crying. It took me ages to try this because I was always quite anti-routine and DS set his own pattern WRT naps etc but as soon as I dropped the afternoon one, he has gone down to bed at 6 with no problems.

Oh but also meant to add, most people tend to drop the morning nap first rather than the afternoon one, DS is just odd!

I'm afraid I can't offer any pearls of wisdom but if it helps to know you're not alone, there are a few of us going through similar over on this thread. Perhaps there's a 10-month sleep regression no-one's told us about??

Good luck getting it sorted, it is miserable and doesn't make the prospect of going back to work any easier. And let us know if you find something that works for you!

We've just started the No Cry Sleep Solution. In 2 weeks, 7 mo DS has changed from 6-8 wakes per night to 2 . Last night he went 11-6am.

(Sadly his twin brother didn't so still no night's sleep for me!)

Hope you find a solution too.

Would you use a sleep trainer?

Imo, there is no rational explanation in 90% of cases (totally non mathematically evidence based statistic there ) but a feeling of uncertainty generally pervades all attempts so that sleeplessness continues.

You need a plan, that you have faith in and that you stick to religiously. You need confidence and you need support. Then...it all comes together.

Sleep trainers don't cure they help you find your own solution and have the confidence in that solution so that it becomes virtually fail safe.

I don't like the idea of controlled crying, but I'm getting desperate.

I think controlled crying is teasing a child, and actually letting them cry until they're finished is probably more humane. Damn difficult to do though

There's a difference between proper distressed 'crying' and non-tearful grumbling/whingeing. I would say we did controlled whingeing. DD was still sleeping in our room at that point (10m) and I decided to stop bf-ing her back to sleep when she woke in the night. The first night of stoppage was ok - she woke a few times but put herself back to sleep every time. Second night was worse, third night was awful, fourth and fifth nights the same. Awake for about four hours, more or less, grumbling or whingeing the whole time. I sat next to her cot for a lot of it, so she was never distressed or feeling abandoned. Then magically the sixth night she slept through entirely, and has done so ever since. I didn't feel guilty or inhumane for letting her cry, because she wasn't really - she was just grumbling at not getting what she'd been used to - which made me feel a lot better about it. I've always hated the cry-it-out theories.

Agree with octavia; we did controlled grizzling from 9 months when I stopped night feeds (it was getting desperate trying to work FT with no sleep).

Now my attitude is that I don't go in unless DS full-on cries and he's pretty good at settling himself when he goes to bed or wakes in the night.

At about the same age as OP's DS, mine started cutting his afternoon nap short a lot too. He'd kip for hours in the morning but wake after about 1 hour in the afternoon so I agree with bertie that a shorter afternoon nap might be worth a try. Good luck!

Definitely agree with dropping the morniing nap. DD1 dropped hers at around 10 months (just stopped going to sleep when I put her in the cot) and just went for a 2 hour nap at lunch time instead.

Have you considered separation anxiety as a possible reason? It's very very common for it to kick in at that age (I think they say from 8/9 months on) - and as you would expect, would naturally be at its worst when they are alone in the dark, assuming you're not co-sleeping. Also explains why he will go back to sleep if BF - not for the food but for the comfort and reassurance.

Seems like there is a lot of advice available about sleep training, if you want to go down that route - but if it feels all wrong to you, then may be worth investigating alternative approaches. Personally I would really recommend "What every parent needs to know" as the practical tips are based on scientific evidence about brain development rather than dogma about the right/wrong way to parent.

Either way, good luck as I've been there and it's damn tough especially when you have to go back to work.

He has always been very fond of his morning nap and still usually sleeps for between 45mins and 2 hours mid-morning unless we are out somewhere where there are interesting things to keep him entertained. I am reluctant to disturb this last vestige of a routine, not least because it's the only chance I get to do anything useful (like making the dinner), since when he's up and about he can't be left unattended for more than a few moments without getting into some sort of scrape.

In the afternoon he's much more reluctant to go to sleep, though he will drop off in the buggy on the way back from the shops. I've tried dropping or shortening this nap, but to no avail. It usually means that he is too grumpy and tired to eat his dinner but still wakes in the night just as much. Yesterday he didn't sleep at all after 12 noon. We got him to bed at 8.30, but he was awake again at 1 and at 4 flatly refused to go back to bed until 5.40.

It has crossed my mind that it might be separation anxiety, but I don't quite know what to do about it. I'm not particularly opposed to co-sleeping, and he does seem to sleep a bit better with us, but because we don't have a very large bed this usually means I still get hardly any sleep or wake up so stiff from lying in strange positions I can hardly stand.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone, though.

It sounds nonsensical but could you try aiming for an earlier bedtime? We've been doing this with DD for the last two weeks (6.15 rather than 7ish) and she has been much easier to put down - and is sleeping through to at least 5am much more frequently now. (On reflection, perhaps she's been getting overtired more easily now she's more mobile so can't stay awake happily for such long stretches?) I've also tried to be more consistent with her wind-down/bedtime routines, with lots of repetitive cues, which might have helped.

In terms of sleep training, you probably already know there is a more gentle alternative to CC called the 'gradual withdrawal' method. The results aren't as quick but there are fewer tears involved. I don't know much about the specifics but I'm sure you'd find lots of info if you did a search on here. Andrea Grace also writes about it in her 'Teach Yourself Baby Sleep' book.

The single most useful thing I ever did in terms of baby sleep was buy a superkingsize bed :-) Expensive but worth every penny, especially when I went back to work. But others I know just had their LOs next to their bed in a cot with the side down. Or even in the same room might help as they can hear your breathing.

My DD did the same as yours at 10 months - she wouldn't go to sleep at all because she didn't want to be put down in her cot. I think by then she'd twigged that DD goes to sleep = mummy goes away.

Eventually, after much denial and resistance on my part, I abandoned all hope of ever having a perfect nursery with perfect baby asleep therein, put the cot in the attic and never looked back

Unfortunately the size of our bedroom does not allow for a bigger bed, or a cot next to the existing one. Having him in our room in his hammock is just about possible, but he is pretty much too big for it and there just isn't room for a conventional cot so that's not going to work long-term either I'm afraid.

Up until recently my dear baby has been a lovely, playful little thing but has now started whacking me and DP about the head, moaning a lot for the DVDs off the DVD shelf and generally not fitting in with how things have to be.

What would you do?

You need to do that except the problem is sleep. I don't know where this idea came from that indulging every way of behaving that a child exhibits equals attachment parenting or whatever. If the child needs to sleep for his health and your sanity you have to draw the line and only tolerate sleep type behaviour. If they have night terrors, calm them. Teething pain, calpol and reassurrance but you don't need to give in to a pattern that is totally unworkable and driving you to post in search of answers that you hold.

This is your household, your family and your baby so you do what you need to do. Whatever that is, do it and accept nothing less than a sleeping child whether you do it by CC or by sitting next to the cot clinging on to a babysized hand til it goes limp with sleep.

This is what I call parenting with confidence and conviction and it is the only tool you need.

You don't need a king sized bed, a sleep manual or anything else.

It works.

Good luck sausage, hope you find the answer.

Of course hobbgoblin is right about confidence but have to admit, I wish she'd been slightly kinder to those of us who are, as ever, only trying to help in our imperfect way

Well, I have confidently tried everything I can think of, and failed to solve the problem, so I am very grateful for those of you who are trying to help me think of other things to try!

At the moment we seem to be in a pattern of two ok nights, followed by one dreadful one, but I think there are teeth to be reckoned with atm, so maybe if there hadn't been the improvement would be steadier.

I was trying to help you actually and thought that the fact I do have some direct experience of many children on the sleep front might be of some use.

OMG sausage!you are really going through it!I have 3 brilliant sleepers (TG).As soon as they started displaying a lack of interest in bedtime I immediately dropped the morning nap.I stayed out and about,walking,engaging them in conversation and limped toward to the afternoon nap which they all loved.I was religious about routine tho.Lunch at half 12 every day followed immediately by nap.Obviously times changed with school runs etc over the years, but I still put my youngest(18 months) down in her cot every day.She loves the comfort of this routine as she always knows what comes next.
Now they all adore going to bed at night.(long may it last!)
Also,did you try lavender scented baby bath and lotion before bed?great to help them sleep.Best of luck.

Could be seperation anxiety. This can co-inside with new found mobility. When he's waking in the night he's needing you to comfort him cos he's just realising your two separate people. For your sanity I would stop the bf in the night and just offer cup of water. Send your DP or someone else in to comfort for first three nights and try Tracy Hogg (Baby Whisperer) Pick up put down method. Its kinder than controlled crying.
Don't put it off you need your sleep!!