I think I'm loosing my way with parenting a bit.....

[milki]

I feel like I am struggling with my DDs at the moment, they are 2.1 and 3.10yrs. I am at home full time with them and feel like I am loosing my way a bit! Can anyone steer me right again or point me to help?

Main problems are:
-They fight and squabble a lot, very competitive over toys and possessions and me. DD1 wants anything that DD2 has, cries and winges about it, sometimes snatches - then DD2 screams, hits etc. I mostly find myself shouting too and taking the toy/whatever away, leading to everyone crying and me feeling v. v. stressed

-I can't get them to do anything! Leaving the house is hardest, DD2 wants to do everything herself, does/doesn;t want to put coat/shoes on... ad nauseam. DD1 sometimes cooperates, sometimes doesn't. I end up shouting a lot. I'm worried that I am shouting out of anger too often.

• Mealtimes, I always feel a bit clueless as to what to feed them, don't really know the best time to get them to eat (DD2 naps from 11-1pm'ish) and find that DD1 in particular behaves badly if she's hungry. Sometimes they'll eat loads of great stuff but mostly they'll turn their noses up. We do always sit at table to eat meals but I don;t think I have them at regular enough times (find it a prohibitive to getting out an about when you figure in the nap too)

• I feel really uninspired - I generally have to deal with tantrums from DDs to go out anywhere, quite often struggle getting them somewhere nice for them, get there feeling stressed and wondering why I bother! Probably the nicer weather will help this but I think I need help now, nice weather too elusive atm. I feel frustrated a lot and am starting to feel sad that I'm not doing the best for them

Sorry, really long. Trying to get it clear in my head I think, but I do feel bad and want to change things. If anyone can offer suggestions I would be grateful.

TIA.

And sorry, that should be losing of course.

Poor you, I remember being in tears with my 2 (16 months apart)at that age .Things do get better and since dc2 was about 3 they have played nicely together.

Snatching: i used to take the toy away and let them cry about it if necessary. There's no point in shouting as well but sometimes I did that too.

food: life's easier if you decide in advance what to give them.We still eat at about 8, 12 and 5. But when dc2 was really small we ate at 11.30 if necessary and she had a nap after that.That gave me some quiet time as dc1 was fed and not wingy and dc2 was asleep.

out and about: maybe this bloody awful winter is over and you'll get more time outside soon. And they won't have to put on so much clobber just to be out for 20mins and then get cold or wet.

I don't think you need to change much, just feel a bit more confident that you are doing a good job and that they will become easier soon

Aww Milki, feel sooo sorry for you! Have been in your shoes, know how frustrating it is. I used to get up every day thinking it would be better and it wasnt.

First thing you might want to make sure is that youre ok in yourself, ie not depressed. I only found out I had PND when my DS2 was 4...and it got sorted out so fast and now I regret those years which I didnt really enjoy with them.

Mealtimes - maybe you could plan a menu with your DDs every week? Tell them what you'll be doing each day and ask them for input. Explain why something might not be appropriate and suggest alternatives. They probably cant quite read yet but if they get used to seeing foods they know on a menu (mine's stuck to the fridge), it will help with word recognition too! And they have fewer grounds for complaint if they helped choose the food.

As for getting things done, maybe a reward chart would help? You could pick 3-5 things for each child that they have issues with, and see if they can do them every day (with mine it was things like Cleaning teeth after brekkie without being reminded 100 times, and putting shoes on WHEN asked), and get a sticker for each time. x number of stickers each week gets a small reward (we used one-to-one outing with daddy as reward!)

Are there any toddler groups nearby? they can help to dilute the problems and its nice to be able to chat to other mums and know you're not alone. Good luck! This time will pass VERY quickly, I promise

It does sound like you're having a rough time!

Food: I agree with pinky and Looloo about perhaps planning a little bit ahead to make your life easier in terms of food. You could definitely move lunch earlier - at nurseries they have lunch at 11.30 and then then little ones nap after that. If dd2 could nap a little bit later, after you've all had lunch, it would give dd1 a bit of time with you, and then perhaps do something all together later when dd2 is up again. Lunches don't have to be super-special - sandwiches every day with perhaps a yogurt or some fruit is fine, especially if you vary the sandwich fillings. Tuna mayonnaise with some sweetcorn in it, cheese and tomato, mushroom pate, houmous, cottage cheese etc.

Leaving the house: You might just have to resign yourself to it taking a long time to get out of the house, for now - though if they're competitive then a race to see who can get their shoes and coat on fastest might help (you should compete too!)

SO, I really tried this afternoon - to be calm and make things fun, no stress. They both had a good (late) lunch and then we ventured out for a walk to the beach and it was a nightmare! DD2 is the worst this week it seems, she exercising her independence via the medium of tantrum A LOT.
In trying to really 'look' at what was happening rather than just reacting in the middle of it I did notice that DD2 plays up, I deal with that then DD1 plays up because DD2 is getting attention. For example, we live on a really busy road and DD2 won't hold my hand to cross, so I end up just lifting her, screaming and kicking, then relying on DD1 to be compliant because we have to get over the road, and she is until she realises that DD2 is getting all the attention....

Arrgghh! Apologies for that stream of consciousness just blurting out! I don't have anyone to talk to! DP works until 8ish most nights, and actually doesn't really want to hear it anyway

Anyway, thanks for the all the advice. Next week, I have resolved to get on top of the mealtimes issue. Plan ahead, set times. I'm hoping that will have some knock on effect to other areas.....

Thats great that you took time to look at the situation from the outside . Most children will do anything for attention and if the only way they can get it is by behaving badly then thats what they do. And they seem to know just the right moment to hit mummy with it!!

One to one time with DD1 in particular would be great for her, make her feel special and grown up. The age gap is quite small and in a couple of years they will probably be fabulous together, you just have to get through this now with your sanity intact

Do you have a SureStart centre locally? They are great for groups and activities, but mine also does courses with a free crèche. I've done two courses this term, mostly to get a break from DS and for him to get the benefit of the crèche, but they have also been interesting in themselves and one in particular will look good on my CV. The best course I've done there is the Family Nurturing programme - it was all about how to get on as a family: praising the good behaviour, giving kids choices and appropriate consequences, getting everyone involved in decison making. There was also some time looking at the way we were parented and how that affects our parenting. I'm posting from my phone at the moment but I'll try to get on the laptop later on and find a link to the course, as it was really good and would probably give you a lot of support and ideas if you could find somewhere local that runs it.

Hi there. Sorry to hear you are having a hard time.

I have 2 dd's at home full time too, but slightly older at 2.6 and 4.1. It does get easier!

I find this helps with our day: When we get up I spend 30-60 minutes actively playing with dd's whatever they choose. Then we have breakfast and they get dressed. Breakfast they get to choose between 2 things (weetabix or corn flakes). Having had the attention (and food) they happily play on their own while I shower and get ready.

Then we usually go for a walk or to play group, play date, play ground or other activity. A bit of fruit for mid morning snack.

Lunch between 11.30 and 1. Usually bread and cheese.

Then quiet time usually with TV for dd's and the computer for me.

In the afternoon same as in the morning.

Dinner between 5.30 and 6.30 usually.

Bedtime 7pm.

If they don't want to go out and are playing nicely they get to stay in either morning or afternoon (not both). If they start to bicker we go out - either they come or I carry them to the door and put on their shoes etc. If not behaving in the traffic I carry them under the arm (not very comfortably for them), and turn the attention to the one behaving well.

It sounds a bit harsh when reading through it now, but we laugh and hug and kiss and have fun a lot. I try to teach them about other people's feelings if they snatch a toy etc. - have you read "Unconditional parenting"?

Sorry this was a bit long and if I come across a bit much, but I find it works for me (mostly ).

Hope it gets better for you soon!

Milki - are you me?

I could have written your post.

I have 3.10 DS and 1.11 DD and they are driving me mad at the moment . I'm going back to work in September and really feel like I should be enjoying this time with them. Your point about the competetiveness really rings true.

DS says everything is boring, whinges, fights with his sister

DD is busy asserting her independence and wanting to do everything, or more than her big brother.

I too have been very shouty recently

I can't seem to find time to keep the house looking straight (never mind clean - have just employed a cleaner!!) and feel a bit uninspired to actively 'play' with them - though will happily cook/do crafty things/take them out etc.

Gosh, that sounds awful reading it back. They are also very loving, and incredibly fun children!

So, my plan is to eat lots of chocolate over the Easter weekend, and not fret and then turn into new super mummy next week. I'm going to try the trick of pretending a film crew are following me.....

Shall we compare notes next week? My DH not back till late most night too and could do with moral support!

This is the course I did at SureStart - there were all sorts of people on the course, some with massive parenting problems and some who were pretty much already excellent parents (and most somewhere in between). I really recommend it.

This book comes free with the course, I don't think it would be as useful on its own but you might find it a good start?

you have had a lot of good tips on here, but can I share one life saver for me? Rescue Remedy. You can get it from boots and it really does "rescue" me. It just takes the edge of my iritation and despair.

I really ought to have taken more than I did today

milki, have you tried over the top praising of the one who is doing what you asked eg 'gosh you've got your shoes on already I've never seen anyone do it so quick' or 'you are crossing the road nicely' whilst ignoring that other dc is being annoying.

Thanks everyone. It is good to hear that this is normal and that it gets better!

MarmMummy - yes, lets compare notes! Its a nice thought that if I have a bad day/good day that I can commiserate/celebrate with someone that is experiencing the same thing.
I am getting a small mental list together of improvements to make next week, even doing that has made me feel less helpless. I'm def going to look into what is on offer at the local surestart, like that sound of the course Intergalatic suggested.

Arrghh...... monsters kicking off about something, where is DP???? Will check back on this thread after weekend.

It is normal and it does get better

Motto: This too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass....

In the meantime adopt a few coping strategies...

Firstly & most importantly be consistent.

Do not allow them to hit each other [and don't say 'well you deserved that' (not saying you do, but I have holes in my tongue as my friend says it to her kids!!)] - tell them 'No hitting - it hurts, next time (name the consequence).

If they are arguing over a toy, give it to the one who had it first and tell the other one 'No DDa, no snatching - DDb was playing with that, you can have a turn when she is finished' if they do it again, repeat it and add that if they do it again XX will happen (naughty step/go to room/lose another toy - whatever).

If they are arguing about sitting on your knee make room for both of them and tell them they have to share.

If it's over you reading them a book etc tell them they have to take turns.

Remember that they are old enough to understand, even if the little one isn't talking much! Be consistent!!

Make meal times easy on you. Decide if the cooked one will be at lunchtime or dinner time. It doesn't matter if the meals are repetitive - serve the (healthy) things they do like, with something new on the side 'to try' - not every meal has to be award winning! For the light meal, make it a picky meal - sandwich between then, carrot sticks & homous, bit of cheese, cherry tomatoes (or Gregs sausauge roll & crisps! occasionally!!).

Try to leave a bit more time to get out the front door. Tell them to put their coats/shoes on as you are going out now - if they don't, tell them (in a nice, calm, friendly voice) 'That's fine you can stay at home while I/we go out' and do it - you wont get far before the whining/crying starts. Tell them they have one chance this time to do it, quickly, but next time they don't do as they are told they will be staying home.

As for crossing roads etc - simply tell them if they do not hold your hand they will not be going with you next time and they can wait in the car for you (you don't have to go far!!).

Develop a tone of voice that brooks no crap - and follow through with what you tell them the consequence will be.

DD1 is old enough to be compliant - do not underestimate her!

The first few days it will seem like you are saying no or telling them the consequence of misbehaving a LOT! However, very quickly they know where the boundaries are and they are much calmer (not having to keep testing the boundaries). Kids like to know where they stand - they like adults to be consistent.

Soon they will be stroppy pre-teens and you will yearn for the days when they were little - don't wish it all away x

(Sorry if I have now x-posted, I started to reply ages ago and got sidetracked).

Oh, Milki, poor lamb....first off, as I keep banging on....you are not at fault, our bloody stupid modern Western way of bringing up kids is! We're supposed to be doing this with a huge support system of Granmas, Granpas, aunties, uncles, cousins and neighbours - as nature intended. Not all on our lonesomes 24/7 and beating ourselves up because we 're all such 'failures'! Old African saying: 'It takes a whole village to raise a child'. (Speak as single parent of - now adult - 6) Two parents are NOT ENOUGH!

Chippingin, (if I may say) has given sound, practical advice. Especially the 'brooking no crap' - (I found also 'the Wrath of God' worked for older kids - not a believer in smacking), but we've had that thread. Keep calm, but keep authoritative (in a nice way), confident, as if you expect good behaviour. Don't let 'em frazzle you. You're the boss.

Sounds like sibling rivalry going on there - DD1 jealous (normal) of DD2. Distraction techniques work wonders - give them little jobs to do - put toys away, etc, all in good humoured way. They won't do them well, of course but that's not the object.

Don't know much about Surestart - didn't have such things in my day - but sounds like a good idea.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Feeling positive about the day/week ahead - DDs and I off to supermarket this morning with a list each (DDs have drawn their own pics of things, hope I can decipher correctly when we get there to avoid frustration related tantrums) and a week of meals planned. Thanks for the advice about simple sandwich type meals, I really should do that more often and take the pressure off myself! Also DDs have a couple of choc bunnies left and they both know that they have to behave nicely in order to get these throughout the week, the threat of taking them away has already worked this morning in cutting short a fight over toothbrushes (!).

I am starting this week expecting good behavior and a pleasant time with my little treasures, the sun is shining, I am in control and I can do it!

I can't believe how much better it has made me feel reading other mumsnetters advice and experience. Positive start, just hope it doesn't all come crashing down around my ears......

MarmMummy - hope you have a good day

Sounds like you were off to a good start. And I think you are so right to be in the mind set of expecting good behaviour and a pleasant time.

Hope your day turned out well! If not, keep going, it will get easier

Hi Milki

Had a great day thanks

I had to have my nephew for the day, who is exactly the same age as my DD. It was full on, and I'm exhausted, but it made me realise that:

• if I am 'jolly' my DC behave better
• that whinging is catching!
• that given my undivided attention my DC are very well behaved!!!

It was so hectic with the 3 of them that I couldn't even attempt any jobs of my own, such as unpacking from the the weekend, food shopping, laundry. We had a long morning at the park and then spent the afternoon with me 'guiding' them in some things, and some free playing.I think they loved the feeling that I wasa properly with them 100% of the time, and not sloping off to sort washing/check emails etc.

Did have one ranty moment though. My DS cannot leave me alone when I am on the phone and shrieks for my attention and yells in the background. I then end up yelling at him whilst on the phone - so embarrasing, but I can't bring myself to ignore it. I gave him time out in the hall though and he seemed sorry..... but I don't have high expectations that this one is easily solved.

How was your day?

Thanks for all advice

Wanted to say hi MarmMummy, haven't forgotten about you - my week was going well, sunshine helping..... but both girls have had sickness and diarrhea (sp?) and DP has broken his foot, is in a cast up to his knee and will be off work for four weeks. We have been pretty housebound for a few days and it has mostly been awful! Only saving grace is that DDs want to snooze on sofa and watch DVDs a lot.

Any advice on how to handle grumpy DP who is not used to being around DDs all day, every day, and who can only hobble around? I feel like I have a third toddler to parent now, he gets cross quite easily!!

Also, I've been wondering about DD1 getting hypoglycemic (low blood sugar, not sure if I've got the word right). DP was apparently diagnosed with this when he was a child after some investigation into behavioral problems. Anyone know about this? What is the likelihood of DD1 having it and any tips on how to control blood sugar in a small child - I assume diet? She often craves some milk after a tantrum and I wonder if she is self-correcting the sugar in a way, or if it's just how she calms down and I am over-thinking this....