how to get ds to listen / co-operate? 1-2-3- doesn't work; praising doesn't work; making it "fun" doesn't work. Shouting and outright bribery DO work :-(

[GoingPostal]

Please help.... trying to get ds (2.11) to co-operate with getting dressed, doing teeth, not hitting me, coming in, going out, doing any small thing when requested is impossible.

ok sometimes it doesn't matter and he can do it in his own time - but sometimes we just need to bloody well get on and DO something or GO somewhere.

I have tried counting slowly to 3, I have tried asking nicely, telling firmly then imposing appropriate sanctions, I've tried the jolly "ooh let's see how quickly we can do it / who can do it first" approach. Doesn't work, he does it in his own way or not at all.

However, the merest whisper of "chocolate buttons" gets instant co-operation (rarely use this so don't think he expects this as a norm). and, sadly, shouting is the only way that I can stop him in his tracks and just get him to co-operate. and that makes us both really .

Any suggestions, constructive criticism etc welcome. He is a bright boy, great language and understanding, good skills, very loving and sunny but hugely stubborn. and I don't want to be a shouty exasperated cross mummy.

2.11 is very small to be expected to do things quickly tbh.

Choices? You put your shoes on now, or mummy will do it?

Nothing will work instantly. Everything takes time!! Am sure you are doing the right thing and eventually it will click...

however, if it helps - I wrote similar on another thread but my strategy list (for my 18mth/3yo and teenagers I teach) goes

1. distraction/fun - hee, hee, let's draw spots
2. positive instructions - draw on the paper
3. warning with a natural consequence - if you draw on the table, I will take the pen away
4. opportunity for redemption & reminder - give pen back, 'draw on paper'
5. praise/longer term consequence - lovely drawing on paper/put the pen away 'right, shall we go and play with something else'.

This is obv in an ideal world, and there are lots of times I do buttons or shouting too .

Sounds tricky. Have you tried options, eg 'which t-shirt do you want to wear, red or blue?' (Then when he doesn't answer) ' OK I think I prefer red' and go to put it on him. Most toddlers will scream and demand blue, at which point you say 'Welllll... ok, if you put it on right now you can have blue...'

Ask him if he wants to do something (that you know he wants to do, even if it is totally random), wait for the yes, and then say in that case we need to.... whilst continuing to distract with the thing they want to do... Works for my 3 year old DD.

EG.
"Do you want to go to Xs party tomorrow?"
"Yes"
"Well, you'd better put your shoes on now, because if you don't wear shoes then you won't be able to go out now, and then you'd get sore feet and won't be able to go to the party. What do you think you'll do at the party...."
and basically, just keep them talking until you have achieved the thing you are trying to achieve.

It doesn't have to be even remotely related to what your doing. Sometimes I talk to my DD about her 4th birthday party - and she hasn't even got it until November! But she's so busy telling all about what she wants to do/have, she doesn't realise that I'm getting her dressed/doing the thing she didn't want to do...

oh, lol, yes to all the above. i assumed he was about 7 or 8 . at not even three, you have to distract and cajole and get on with it the best you can.

wait until he's 8 and you're still asking the same question...

Try not to worry too much if he doesn't listen/doesn't obey. Most things you can get done anyway, by just taking him firmly by the hand/putting his feet in his shoes, ignoring any howling. And talking about something unrelated as Ellokitty suggests. It doesn't mean you are setting him up for a lifetime of dependence: he's only little.

I think 1-2-3 magic is great, (don't abandon, but def revisit in a year or so) but at under 3, your ds is just still too young. As others have said, keep choices limited to do you want the green one or blue one. If something not on then offer him 1 last chance to do it or you will do it. And accept it'll be slowly but surely that he will start to do things. But although it might not seem it now, 2.11 is so young and you'll look back in a few years and realise it. I look back and see how high my expectations were for ds1. Ds3 got away with murder as he seemed so `young^ . Hoping to find some realistic balance for dc4

I feel your pain, dd is 2.10 and she has her own class of speed... Any slower and she would grind to a halt. Getting out to nursery is the biggest challenge as it's time restricted.

It all depends on how patient/tired I am myself - if I am jolly and positive it works fine, the moment she gets the slightest whif of stress everything is reversed. Last night at nursery pick-up I made the stupid mistake of saying 'come on darling please, let's go home, mummy is very tired now and wants to go home' .... We left half an hour later after... Hmmmm.

When it's absolutely time critical and I have to speed things up I resort to a few chocolate buttons, hey, it's not a sin!

say less imo
parents say too much
lISTEN to yourself - would you annoy yourself?

be realistic. he wont tidy his room - give him oen thing to do every day at that age

buy how to talk so kids will talk ( the book)

me too OP!
I bought how to talkl but the "boy that sucks" really puts me off
Did read it a while ago though, prob when i had one adorable 3mo so will re-read
What do you do when you physically can't get shoes on etc. Huge tantrum, kicking, fighting, breath holding & fainting?

agree with loads of the above but also - if you are in a hurry, don't wait for him, help him do it. Even with my 4 yr old I need to do one shoe whilst he's doing the other if I want to get out quickly.

SPB... I'd leave the shoes for a bit. Go and get everything else ready. Change of scene, so take him outside/another room without shoes and do the distraction LOOK! a BIRD! thing, then talk about something else. Then do shoes

Or just wrestle shoes on.

I love How to Talk. The crazy fantasy stuff works really well with my dd (wow, wouldn't it be great if we NEVER had to wear shoes, we could stomp in the mud with our toes, yuk ). SOrt of like Ellokitty's distraction, you put their shoes on while you're doing it.

There is never ONE solution though, it's all an experiment!

SPB... I'd leave the shoes for a bit. Go and get everything else ready. Change of scene, so take him outside/another room without shoes and do the distraction LOOK! a BIRD! thing, then talk about something else. Then do shoes

Or just wrestle shoes on.

I love How to Talk. The crazy fantasy stuff works really well with my dd (wow, wouldn't it be great if we NEVER had to wear shoes, we could stomp in the mud with our toes, yuk ). SOrt of like Ellokitty's distraction, you put their shoes on while you're doing it.

There is never ONE solution though, it's all an experiment!

will try.. so far distraction seems to be met with more tantrumming and sulking, or it works but then the tantrum returns when we return to the shoes!
I liked the fantasy thing too, but think he's just a bit too young at the moment, hopefully it will start to become effective soon.

thank you for all the help and suggestions, lots to try out - though right now choices don't work "green or blue ds?" - "neither. don't want to get dressed!"

I usually have to resort to wrestling him into stuff - he is amazingly strong, v tall and broad so it does become a battle just to get hold of him for long enough to get clothes on.

I did threaten the sanction of no tv at all today and that worked quite well.

think I need to try harder at stream of cheerful chat to distract.

and yes I do know he is still young, I am definitely too hard on him sometimes - and it's good to be reminded of that.

and YES SuSylvester, I bore myself with how much I talk at him, I do need to get it down to short instructions and then unrelated talk rather than constant nagging.

just thinking aloud here really! it helps though!

consequences need to be immediate, small and followed through IMVHO.
so 'you need to put your shoes on now, or I will do it' and do it.'
no tv at all is so BIG and far away! Glad it worked but you would have to actually follow it through (ratehr you than me ). I will turn the telly off is more immediate. Don't forget they are only learning concept of time and memory.

I vaguely remember dd having a phase of not getting dressed when I asked actually...drove me to distraction. I think in the end what actually worked was kind of ignoring it and just getting her dressed for a bit.

thought your son was 2.1 but 2.11 is old enough to follow some instructions - they are still very, very small though. My dd is 3.11 and I think I expect far too much from her sometimes.

Your ds sounds funny and clever - 'neither'! It helps sometimes to try and enjoy their stroppiness (easier said than done) so 'neither?! neither! but then what ARE you going to wear? You have to get dressed or you will get sooooo cold?' tickle and get them dressed. Makes you feel better anyway if you remind yourself they're not really being 'naughty', just nearly 3. And kids do roll with your moods (well, mine do).

thanks Adair, that has helped put it into perspective
hard sometimes to remember they're just a child
plus i think in my case being consistent (like you say, consequences) is the key

ah yes I'd promised tv once he was dressed so that worked. did realise as soon as I said - in fact no tv at all today that a) that was too big and b) just, doh!

I've recently started the confiscation of toys/limiting of activities if he doesn't do what I ask, rather than the bribing with something to cajole him along.

If there's a toy he's desperate to play with then, i tell him he gets it when he gets dressed nicely.

Threats of tickling also work a treat and helps break the stand-off.

Ha ha, my favourite was hearing a mum say 'if you don't come now, we're never going to do anything fun ever again'

I like posting on these threads cos it reminds you of all the stuff that works (so easy to shout when you're tired, huh?)

I think back to when ds was born and dd was 2.3 ! and I thought she was a little girl who understood everything THEN - of course she was a baby!! ANd i have to remember I will look back on NOW like that...

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Christina - that sounds great - do you think it will work at this age though, or might it be a lot of talking and explaining and just a bit too much to take in for someone who isn't yet 3?

we have a similarish system. We have bit tub of stones & each child has their own cup labelled with their name. If they do something good they get a stone. If I'm really pleased with them they get 1 or 2 stones. If they do I job I might offer to 'pay' them a stone. If they are bad, they lose a stone. If they hurt their brother, they have to 'pay' them a stone.

On Saturdays, they get paid Xp per stone. This is their pocket money.

Works well and a real motivator, carrot & stick rolled into one & can be used easily on small & older kids.

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GoingPostal my DS 2.4 is exactly the same. The distracting is the main thing even if for me it means putting on the TV for 10 mins whilst I get him dressed. Then to get him out the door and into the car I have to promise a game of buses versus lorries - how many of each will we see on our way to wherever we are going. Then again it depends how keen your DS is on vehicles, mine is obsessed with them. A tip for teeth is I bought my DS a Spiderman electric toothbrush, he sometimes has the motor on, sometimes not. they're not supposed to have them until age 3 but my SIL a dental hygenist said it's fine as long as you don't press too hard on their teeth. I say 'how many times do you want to brush your teeth' and suggest ridiculous numbers like '94', '253' etc until he laughs and says a more reasonable one. But like other replies I do resort to chocolate buttons AND I never leave the house without some sort of food bribery in the glove box as my DS is the king of twisting and kicking to avoid going in his car seat.