Screaming/tantrums in the middle of the night - age 2

[clemette]

Our DS was two in January and has always been an appalling sleeper. He has slept through the night (7-5) only a couple of times in his life. His current pattern is to sleep until about 2am and then scream to be taken downstairs to start the day! If we don't he has a full-on screaming tantrum for up to 90minutes until he gives up and goes back to sleep (in our bed!) for about an hour, getting up for the day at 5.30. I am at a loss what to do about it. He isn't hungry, he isn't teething, he just wants to get up. Every night is the same so he doesn't seem to be learning that the tantrum doesn't lead to us getting up.
Has anyone else experienced this and how did you overcome it?
Thanks in advance.

I DO think it's temper tantrums and a power struggle on his behalf. If he's getting plenty of excercise, eating well and not unwell he SHOULD sleep most of the night. Maybe with a little resettling but not 90 minute temmper tantrums in the middle of the night.

My friend was staying with her first child while he went to sleep because he cried/made a fuss if she left the room. I told her she needed to get it sorted before her second child was born (3 1/2 year gap) but she didn't. He'd cry till he threw up and she gave in! Supernanny had a child like this, when she threw up they cleaned up and put her back to bed. It worked - it's just a case of taking the power back. It IS hard to do when they are little and cute but it IS worth it.

You're little one is just very determind! BTW my friend still has trouble getting hers to bed and they are 10 and 7! If we go around to dinner they do not settle the whole time we are there. They know she doesn't mean business. On holiday, I put them to bed, no problems, just stood outside the door and insisted on quiet!

It doesn't sound like night terrors if he is coherent and you can communicate. Ds has had night terrors since 6 months (now 5.7) and I have never yet been able to understand what he is saying or properly communicate with him. They also don't last 90 mins and they occur at a pretty fixed time - anywhere between 10.30 pm and 12am which is when his REM sleep is.

Have you tried taking him downstairs at 2am when he asks? I wonder if he thinks he can do the sort of things he does during the day. If you take him downstairs, sit quietly (minimal light on) no television or toys he might realise it is pretty boring to be awake in the middle of the night.

Mollie, I might give that a try - anything is worth a go!

My DD 2.3 has had tantrums (definitely nor night terrors) in the night for at least a year. It's nearly killed us and destroyed our relationship with the neighbours.

I have recently found a solution...

One night I was sitting in her room, as one does, the dryer finished it's cycle and beeped. I don't know where it came from, it certainly wasn't a conscious decision, but I said (in a resigned tone) something like 'ah, that's the beep that means you have to go to sleep now, night night sweetie' and left the room. She accepted it without question and went straight to sleep

So, I bought a kitchen timer that beeps and it usually works a treat. I tell her I'll wait in her room until the beeps and then on the landing to the beeps and that after that she just has to go to sleep. I wait one minute sitting on her chair (beep, beep, beep) and then 2 minutes on the landing (beep, beep, beep). I do sometime have to repeat the landing waiting but, hey, 2 minutes isn't an issue compared with how things have been. It feels like a miracle.

I think she accepts it because (as she sees it) the beeps are something neither of us can control. Anyway, it might be worth a try.

Kitchen timer sounds brilliant. Off to eBay...

Oh, I've missed a lot here!

DS went down easily this evening, but was screaming his head off 5 minutes later, and it took a lot of massaging cream into his arms and feet (eczema), both of which he was scratching (scratching the legs with his toes!), pick up/put down. Eventually, he was too tired to scream any more.

He is very tired today, so was much less pliable than at his best times. So a good sleep in the day also helps to keep him sweet for the effort of falling asleep.

oh poor lad...excema is soooooo itchy. Do you use an antihistamine or perhaps Eurax. When mine is bad, I use both!

Thank you, mrspoppins, we have had antihistamines prescribed at various points, when we are doing a steroid blitz, but don't use them habitually. I don't really think about that, to be honest! My DH got some Eurax a couple of weeks ago, when we thought he might be about to come down with chicken pox, but the documentation said it was for over 2s except with doctor's advice, and DS isn't 2 till April.

Sorry for the thread hijack, clemette. How was last night? I just wanted to add that, apart from the itching, I did pick up/put down 26 times last night, until DS gave up. It would have been fewer, only DH came in to see what was going on, and of course seeing him made DS break out with a renewed demonstration of how awful everything was. Grrr. Anyway, with PU/PD, I think it takes more and more energy every time to start up crying again, rather than continuing with the momentum of hysterics, and eventually they give up. Because we're adults, although it doesn't feel like it, we have more stamina than the littluns. I once worked in a summer camp, where we ran the kids into the ground, to the point where they would just crawl off to bed by themselves, so bedtimes were soooo easy. Mornings were hard (I had to sprinkle water on one), but hyping a child up is easier than putting him/her to bed. For the record, the youngest of those kids was about 8.

The odd thing us that bedtimes are never a problem. He has a lively routine and goes to bed gratefully; it's just that when he wakes in the night he really struggles to go back to sleep and therefore thinks he needs to get up!
Last night he woke at 12 and I sat with him until he went off, then he woke at 3 and came into our bed I misread the clock and thought it said 5) and then woke for the day at 5.15. This week I am determined to crack it...

Ugh, hard work! My sympathies.

clemette DD has always been very good at going to bed too. Seriously, the timer is worth a try...

clemette - if she's waking at the same time each night you could try this :

My DS2 started waking between 12 and 1 every night for about a fortnight, for no apparent reason. He wouldn't be able to settle back to sleep so would call out for us. This was fine, except he'd go back to sleep but the i'd be awake for ages.

One night, I accidentally woke him when I went to check on him at my bedtime (10.30ish). He did not wake up that night. Since then, I have gone into his room, kissed him and said goodnight, loudly enough for him to roll over or murmur in his sleep. The one night I forgot to do this, he woke up again.

I think that it's just a matter of re-setting his sleep patterns.

Since then I've seen "waking to sleep" mentioned on MN, so you could look that up...

BTW, It could be night terrors, but they are normally in the first half of the night - before 11 pm.

Sorry, meant he, not she

Have just re-read my thread. Not sure if I've been clear enough. You wake the DC up (or rouse) earlier in the night, so they don't wake up later - reboots sleep pattern.

And I think it does sound like a temper tantrum .....

If my idea doesn't work, I think you are going to have to try Tanya Byron's rapid return technique.

Tanya Byron

Thanks Jamie. As soon as I build up any energy I am going to give the techniques that require effort a go! But I have ordered the timer Winged and am placing great faith in it!

Ah, yes. The wake-to-sleep thing. I soooooo wanted to do that with DD but there was/is never any rhyme, reason or regularity to her nocturnal terrorism at all.

Anyway, it's supposed to be a great technique and well worth a try if there is a pattern to your DSs waking. I'm not sure if it has to be waking at exactly the same time(s) each night or if there's some tolerance. It's often used for early waking and it sounds like your DS wakes at the same time each morning...

Another idea is a very dim nightlight. We got one when dd1 (although admittedly she is usually a good sleeper) went through a horrendous phase like this just before she was 2. Told her it was her 'sleepy light' that she had to turn on before bed and off in the morning. Seemed to help a lot, she still woke a bit but was much easier to get back to sleep (said sleepy light on, still night time, back to sleep etc, which she accepted with only a little crying), no more 3 hour tantrums ( and I think they are tantrums). Think it also helped the transition of us leaving the room, as we weren't turning the light off as we could see by the nightlight, so she wasn't feeling so 'abandoned' iyswim.

I think you need to find something that they understand tells them it is still nighttime, and then be consistent in applying the back to bed rule if they wake up during your chosen 'night' hours. Would also recommend the toddler taming book.

Good luck!

Clemette- don't know if you remember, I had this with dd until she was about 4, I put it down to night terrors, she seemed perfectly awake and would even respond/converse in the middle of all the shrieking. I used to try and get some drops of Rescue Remedy into her gob mid scream, and it used to bring her out of it almost instantaneously. Whether or not because RR works, or it was just the shock of something being dropped in her mouth I don't know

Rescue remedy calms my dogs on fireworks night too!

Bucharest, I might give RR a try, given that we have tried many of the other suggestions (12 sessions of cranial osteopathy, a small fortune spent on nightlight etc etc.)
My day today started at 4am as DH is away, DS started his screaming at 4 and woke DD. We were having breakfast by 5!!

RR helps DD too but I try to avoid about giving it to her, I really don't want her associating the taste of alcohol with calming down...

driven you can get an alcohol free one now, specially for night times/children.