Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Screaming/tantrums in the middle of the night - age 2

58 replies

clemette · 27/02/2010 22:28

Our DS was two in January and has always been an appalling sleeper. He has slept through the night (7-5) only a couple of times in his life. His current pattern is to sleep until about 2am and then scream to be taken downstairs to start the day! If we don't he has a full-on screaming tantrum for up to 90minutes until he gives up and goes back to sleep (in our bed!) for about an hour, getting up for the day at 5.30. I am at a loss what to do about it. He isn't hungry, he isn't teething, he just wants to get up. Every night is the same so he doesn't seem to be learning that the tantrum doesn't lead to us getting up.
Has anyone else experienced this and how did you overcome it?
Thanks in advance.

OP posts:

2old4thislark · 27/02/2010 22:49

My son was always a restless sleeper - still shouts in his sleep and he's 17!

If you havent tried this he when cries, go to his room, reassure him, tell it's still night time and attempt to leave the room. When he cries again you go back again and settle him without saying anything.

He will throw wobblies and tantrums but however much noise and fuss he makes he NEVER get to go downstairs or in your bed until morning. You always settle him in his room even if you have to sit next to the bed, maybe with your back to him and gradually edge to the door.

Have seen it done with success on many occasions on Supernanny. You will have some very difficult nights and have to be strong.

I also did this with my puppy. She howled in the night as she didn't want to be in her crate and I spent a few nights gradually backing away from the crate and/or sitting on the floor next to her but ignoring her. If it works with a puppy it should work with a small child!

Good luck!

Montifer · 27/02/2010 22:55

You must be exhausted

DS (20 months) isn't a great sleeper, can also count on one hand the number of nights he's slept through but thankfully we haven't experienced mid - night tantrums (yet)

Does your DS nap during the day and if so can that be cut down at all?

Would it be possible to increase his physical activity during the day?
I've noticed that DS sleeps more soundly on days when he has been more active.

Is he too young for bribery / reward charts etc?

Hope it gets better v soon

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:01

Thank you. Unfortunately this is what we did before the tantrums started. I would sit in his room for 45 minutes at midnight, 2am, and 4am every night. Things came to a head when I had sat with him for 90 minutes and he still screamed blue murder when I tried toleave his room.
He is child immune to all "techniques" as he has a will of iron and will just scream and scream no matter what we do. My GP is aghast (for months he tried to talk me into doing controlled crying; in desperation we tried it at 14 months when he was still waking every 45 minutes through the night. It was a complete disaster as he cried MORE each night rather than less and we abandoned it after 8 nights of utter hell) I reckon he would defeat even Supernanny... good job he is so cute and lovely in the day!
I wonder (fingers crossed) if this particular phase of screaming in just that - a phase?

OP posts:

TrinityIsFuckingTrying · 27/02/2010 23:03

are you sure its a tantrum?

my two youngest have night terrors

TeamEdward · 27/02/2010 23:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:04

X-post Montifer. He is a conundrum - us the same whether he naps or not and no amount of activity seems to wear him out (he is a true 2 year old boy and doesn't sit down all day). He is beginning to show an interest in stickers but doesn't yet understand that they are rewards. Perhaps I need to hold out until he can grasp this concept...

OP posts:

2old4thislark · 27/02/2010 23:06

That does sound rather extreme and very tiring for all of you. Sorry I have nothing else to suggest other than getting Supernanny herself in!

That sounds like a good idea about increasing physical activity if possible.
Does he sleep longer if he goes to bed later?

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:08

More x-posting. Trinity I did wonder about might terrors but he is completely lucid but just screams "go downstairs" repeatedly for the whole time. It would stop the instant he got his way. It also builds - he wakes asking quietly to go down and the tantrum builds and builds.
TeamEdward, do you deal with it as "calmly" as I so (generally I stomp around the house blaming DH)

OP posts:

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:10

PS sorry about all typos, trying to type on the iPhone and it has ridiculous predictive text...

OP posts:

WingedVictory · 27/02/2010 23:11

Hi, all. Night terrors or tantrums here, too (DS is 1,22). We have unfortunately got him into the habit of milk when he wakes, but often feel a bit helpless to just leave him, as he has bad eczema, and scratches his arms to buggery, and also uses his toenails to scratch his legs!

We try to ensure a combination of:

eating well (not always possible, except in growth spurts, but we are trying)
lots of exercise
lots of cream for his skin - and this could work for a child without eczema, too, as we are basically massaging him. If you can find some sensitive points, it could help. We find wrists, back of the neck and under the chin (the last by putting cream on thumb and index finger, and applying in a gentle "pincer" motion. Last night this worked a treat)
story before bed

It doesn't always work, as there isn't always time to ensure each of these elements in the day. However, he does sleep though occasionally, and if he dosn't, we know we are not alone. Don't discuss this with smug, sleeping parents; they won't understand, and you will feel frustrated!

Good luck

WingedVictory · 27/02/2010 23:14

P.S. If you really think it is pain (e.g. teething), you can give Calpol and Nurofen together, for a really effective whammy. Never give extra paracetamol (which is the ingredient of Calpol), but the two can be combined. (We did so, overlapping them, to control a fever once, on a doctor's advice)

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:18

Food consumption may well be the issue. He would much rather play/bash things than eat. He eats well at nursery but never seems hungry after 4pm (unless he spies a biscuit). He does have a big beaker of milk before bed but maybe I am going to have to work out how to get him eating more at teatime...

OP posts:

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:21

To my shame Winged, if he is not shouting "go downstairs" he is shouting "want medicine". He has a real taste for Calpol though we have been trying to settle him with vitamin medicine (which does satisfy him which makes me suspect early drug seeking behaviour )

OP posts:

mrspoppins · 27/02/2010 23:35

ooh I would stop the medicine idea now. Just tell him you are really happy he is a well boy and that's your favourite sort of boy and meddy is just when we are really poorly.

Agree with 2old...back to bed technique will work but you'll need to do it for about a week.
all the best!

TeamEdward · 27/02/2010 23:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrspoppins · 27/02/2010 23:38

Also, his big beaker of milk could mean he needs a big wee around 2am.
Perhaps, bring that forward to about 90 mins before bedtime and then he will hopefully have done a big wee before last nappy.If you want to keep it...then change his nappy at 2 when he wakes...use pull ups for nightimt as easier to change in dark with a tired toddler. xx

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:55

Thanks everyone.
Mrspoppins his nappy is always pretty dry at 6am and if i tried to change him in the night hecwould scream even more ( he HATES having his nappy changed at the best of times...) I see where you are coming from re earlier milk but at 90 minutes before his milktime he is still at nursery!!
I think I may well have to hold out until he is at an age where he can be reasoned with (or at least when he can understand if I said medicine was only for very poorly boys, and not simply scream.) He is only just two, so the consequences/ reasoned explanations stuff may need to wait a while!

OP posts:

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:58

Am now pondering my laziness re night nappies. I font think I have ever changed a nappy in the night unless it was pooey. We use cloth nappies in the day so they are changed frequently but at night we fully trust to Pampers claims of drawing away the moisture...

OP posts:

KarenPea · 28/02/2010 00:02

Perhaps he is wanting downstairs because he knows he won't usually be on his own down there / feels safer and he has woken up a bit scared in his room. Does he have a nightlight on? We found our son sleeps better with it on all night. Also is there anything you can do to make his room seem a bit more special. Our two year old son goes to bed much better now that we have given him his "special" cotbed duvet and pillow plus he listens to an audio cd alone in his bed after we have read his last bedtime story. He only gets to listen to this CD at nighttime no other time so its something to look forward to.

I wonder if putting on an audio CD in his room when he wakes up is a good or bad thing - he might wake up just to hear it I guess but it might give you a bit of peace plus shock him out of his tantrum if you give him a "special treat". Hmmm maybe this is bad advice actually - well you decide if its worth a try!

mrspoppins · 28/02/2010 00:17

I never change a night nappy either but some children as they are older actually wake up with the sensation of weeing and it can disturb them..often around 2-3 when potty training is kicking in...I'd onlt do it if I felt it was the cause! x

TeamEdward · 28/02/2010 01:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittlePushka · 28/02/2010 01:26

My DS 1 did this - though seemed also to do it in his sleep too. Very upsetting. When we took lactose out of his diet after he was diagnosed as lactose intolerant, he stopped, literally overnight.

We generally know if he has lactose by mistake ...the night crying returns that night.

Can't explain it, I just know for our Ds it is related to his lactose intolerance.

Original poster

clemette · 28/02/2010 08:33

Thank you for all of the replies, it has been really helpful at clarifying what might be going on. Weirdly he did 7-5 last night!
From the replies I got, it seems that very few people think that he is just having a temper tantrum. As a baby he was CMP intolerant which is probably the root of his sleeping issues, but he has now been desensitised and he doesn't wake with pain like he used to.
I think I am going to have to be a bit more patient until he starts understanding rewards and consequences.
Thanks again

OP posts:

Skegness · 28/02/2010 08:43

How horrendous. It sounds absolutely awful. I would be in a total state. How about approaching your GP or HV again and getting a referral to someone who helps with toddler behaviour problems?

Skegness · 28/02/2010 08:47

It sounds just like a temper tantrum to me. I'm not sure patience is the way to go, if that means responding to full on screaming tantrums by allowing him to go downstairs or get into your bed. If complaints from the neighbours are not a concern I think you need to respond to temper tantrums at night as you do in the day. i.e. ignore them and don't let them result in a reward.

Flip

1 2 3