Disciplining a 2.4 year old - how??!!

[sheeplikessleep]

I am 35 weeks pregnant, so now might not be the best time to tackle this, but I'm interested in how others discipline their toddlers. I feel like my DS doesn't listen to me and just ignores what I say.

I've tried the following:

Saying no firmly, at his level and making eye contact - he thinks it is a game and just avoids eye contact by shaking his head around. It then becomes a physical escape game.
Shouting makes no difference whatsoever
Distracting him - works for a time
Taking away his treats, i.e. no books, removing some of his toys etc etc. He just finds something else (although no books at bedtime always results in a huge tantrum).

I feel like he ignores me whatever I say - not to press buttons, to lie down to have his nappy changed, to get up in chair for his dinner etc etc. It's a struggle, physically and I feel like he is totally in control at the moment. (or is that just all toddlers? ).

Is he too young to start 'time out'? If not, I know he will get up as soon as I put him down and will think it is a game. Do I just carry on putting him back on a spot until he does sit still for 2 minutes?

I know part of it is frustration, as he doesn't speak that much yet, so isn't able to communicate what he wants that well.

Any help or advice very much appreciated. I'll log back on in a bit - thanks for reading.

I use a form of time out on dd but to be honest the best form of discipline for this age is to praise praise praise. Spend every opportunity you can telling them how big and clever they are. It is an awful age where they want to do everything themselves (especially changing clothes, feeding, going toilet etc) and physically can't yet so you get a lot of frustration coming out as "naughtyness". If dd is being naughty I do as you said you did, come down to her level and tell her that she is not behaving nicely - try to use positive language e.g. "Mummy needs you to lie down nicely so we can get dressed and go out" rather than "stop running off and come back here" or "walk slowly please" rather than "don't run please" if you see what I mean. If they are really resisting though I will ignore dd for a short period of time then return to her and ask if she is ready to get ready r whatever now. I sometimes have to repeat this. If we are out and she is running off I say "do you want to walk on your own or take mummys hand" if she says walk I let her but if she runs away go and hold her hand and usually drag her - lol then after a couple of minutes ask the question again. They are so stubborn at this age you just need loads of patience xxx

we did use a time out but more for sitting and being calm in quiet spot rather than punish as my ds also had speech delay and was very frustrated also i dont ever give choices then get annoyed if he doesn't do something such as do you want do to that he chooses no and then you get cross as his not doing it

i tell him go get your shoes put your shoes on no do you want or would you like just simple go and do this

also use a tone lay down and have nappy changed

sit at the table please so you sound firmer my ds had trouble knowing when i was playing and asking so i needed to adapt a tone that he knew i was being serious and then lots of praise when he done it

your ds is also at the testing of boundaries age so just stay firm and consistent and demand rather than offering choice with things if he gets upset and frustrated find quiet spot that he can sit in and calm down so when calm you can then insist he does it again so now go sit at table please thank you thats a big boy and back to what your doing

pick your battles if things can be moved that you dont want touched move it rather than have same battle as some things are just magnets to children

oh also i was told never to stop anything to do with bedtime as the end of the day should be relaxing and comforting not a punishment

and taking away toys etc is not understood at this age all you can do is be consistent and just eliminate any items that bothers you and pick your battles
also if doesn't have many words have you been to see gp yet to be referred for speech therapy as this could help a lot with his frustrations and can be quite a wait so always best to go on list asap and if speech does come along can easily come off list

With ds 2 (2.3)I don't do time out/naughty step as it would be a battle to get him to sit on it and that would take away from what he was there for!

It helps if he's busy, outside or playing with other children. In the house is the worst for us.

We try to give him 1:1 -dh takes him swimming whilst ds 1 has his lesson in the big pool (I have ds 3) I take him to the supermarket on a sat with his basket and give him the time he needs to 'help' with the shopping.

I think things go wrong for us when we're short of time so I try to plan as far in advance as possible.

With naughtiness outside the home I take him to one side and talk to him at his level, if he tantrums I tell him I'll have to take him back to the car (with me) as he can't act this way in shops/cafes ect. I also try to get him to ask for 'help' when he's getting frustrated and I say ' show me' so he knows if we can't work it out he can show me what the problem is. This has helped.

If he's a toad with coats/shoes and won't lie down for a nappy I just say 'okay, yu'll tell me when you're ready' and then I go off to do soemthing else and he almost always says' coat on!!' or 'nappy!!'. I think they are mini teenagers at this age and soemtimes want an argument just to see what you'll do.

But if anyone has any ideas on how to stop ds 2 hitting ds 1 in the car (they all sit in a line on the back seat ds 1,2 +3) and ds 1 hits him back and so it carries on...

Also shouting/screaming and moaning -help!!!

I agree with the being consistent and we don;t carry anything on over the next day -every day is a fresh day and that's the same with ds 1 who's nearly 6.

I only take toys away if he's using them as a weapon! He does get a warning and told it'll go in dh's study and he knows he won't get it back till the next day but he doesn't give a hoot if we do as he doesn't care that much about any one toy but we feel this is how we want to treat this situation with 3 boys...

counting to three works for us.

what happens at three varies depending on what's going on eg "if I get to three mummy will put your shoes on for you/I will take it away/strap you in the buggy"

but we don't often get to three. don't know why it works but it does.

mostly.

also agree with developing an I Mean Business voice.

A lot of the time with my 2.9yo I let him do stuff. It will pass.

Not worth getting stressed about...though I did very much with ds1. I know now that it passes! That is the key. 2yos are supposed to be like this! Cuddling and lifting up out of way (sorry if pg I know this is difficult)

and distraction and also making sure they are not hungry...that is another major cause of silly behaviour. Always have a biscuit to hand It will calm down once new baby has settled in. Mainly if you are pg they are worried about imminent changes etc.

Agree with using praise as your main strategy. Remembering to heap praise on him when he's good and quiet etc gives you the chance to build him up in his own mind as a good, clever, sensible boy. Children's behaviour is often a direct reflection of what they believe about themselves and what they believe about themselves comes from what they hear about themselves. Also most interactions with him from you need to be smiley, and full of love and and warmth and approval. Because obviously all kids need that, but also it gives you strategy number one - harden your tone a bit, sound stern....if that is a BIG change from normal interactions then it has an effect in my experience with ds.

At this age, you need imo to truly pick your battles. If he's touching buttons he shouldn't then it's far better to find a way to put those buttons out of reach because putting them out of reach may take one action eg putting tv on wall or something; whereas fighting to stop him may take a million actions over many months or even years! You need to toddler proof your house imo. Worth it specially as you are having another!

Time out on step I never used. Very occasionally I used time out in DS room. But I wouldn't have attempted the step - ds is too spirited to stay put on a step and i did not want to spend hours putting him back.

Basically my approach was consequences more than discipline; you can't actually make a child behave but you can clearly show where the boundary lies and show the consequence of stepping over the boundary. I always think consequences work best when they are closely related to the 'offence' eg throwing toys - toy put away. I don't like 'punitive' approaches, eg, throwing toys - sit on step.

You just need to show the consequences of actions and trust him to learn, because he will.

I think is praise is good but as long as it's not hollow praise and actually does focus on what a child is doing and how that is making someone else feel.

'Wow! T likes that when you talk to him, can you see how he's smiling...?'

Children know when they're being patronised too.

My dd is 2.9 and I have never 'disciplined' her as such.

I think I approach everything from the point of view of 'how does this look through her eyes' and always allowing for the fact that the world is a strange place to a toddler and they have a lot to learn about the way of the world.

I don't shout or chastise but I suppose I talk, explain, discuss, ask, listen, share etc. All the things I expect from her too. I communicate with her in a way that I would like her to communicate with me. I never tell her to do anything that might seem arbitrary or random but include an explanation about why ie not 'put your shoes on dd' but 'let's go to the park, oh I can see your socks dd, better cover them up with some shoes before we go. Now pick whether you want wellies or shoes and then we can put your coat on'. She knows why, she knows what she has to do and she knows what will happen next.

I think what I'm trying to achieve is teaching dd about the world around her and the way things have to be. I don't want her doing things because she fears discipline or because she wants to earn something back. I want her to do things for the reasons they need doing. So I want her to put her coat on because it's cold and we're going out and she understands the logic behind that. I don't want her to put her coat on because I'll confiscate her toy if she doesn't iyswim.

Thank you all so much for your posts and the detail you've all gone to.

I will try to use more positive language, as I hadn't realised, but I do tend to say 'don't do x' a lot. In fairness, he does also get a lot of praise too when he plays well or is sharing or whatever (which is always on the days when we have more on, out and about a lot too and he gets his regular nap).

I have really tried with my tone of voice to be firm. I don't quite know how to make myself sound more 'serious', but it does feel like my 'stern' voice is just interpreted as a 'mummy is being silly' voice. (And why I think he starts giggling). However, when I do try to make eye contact at his level and ask him firmly to look at mummy, he avoids it at all costs, so I guess knows mummy isn't happy.

Thank you all for posting, I guess I've been reassured that time out he's probably too young for. I need to try the positive a bit more and hopefully with time every nappy change / getting in car seat / going in the bath / getting out of the bath won't be such a battle.

Thanks again for posting. I'm going to print this off and show DH tonight - thanks.

Tbh I don't think most 2 or 3yos actually 'get' the stern voice or 'naughty step' or time out things...they make no sense to a child that age so obviously will be interpreted as a game.

Mainly as long as you believe they mean well, you will be Ok. They cannot always comply as they are tired, hungry, bored or upset...they have no self control. When this happens I pick them up and take them anyway...ie this morning, ds didn't want coat on, he put his wellies on, didn't want socks...so I took coat and socks, lifted him cheerfully into car and off we went. He knew we had the things to hand if he got cold toes and would ask for them...I don't believe in forcing the issue unless someone is in danger etc. If we are by a road and he refuses to be held or go in buggy, I do lift and shift as it were, till we are somewhere safer.
But no point punishing, shouting etc as they won't understand.

oh and meant to add - work around things. My ds hated nappy changes too so he was in pull ups from one year and was changed standing up. Going in the car seat - bribery little treats like raisins choc buttons or other healthy treats were saved to be given in the car.

One thing I found really helped was not to worry that I had to keep ds in a good pattern in terms of baths etc - don't keep banging away at things just because you're worried that if you don't he will 'always' be a certain way. Remember kids grow and develop and change, they're not like adults. He won't always dislike baths just because he hates them now.

FWIW on that issue I didn't press DS on baths for a long time, just had the occasional one when he was dirty enough to make me do it but one day I ran a bath for me and ds wanted to get in....so I said "oh no DS that's my bath"......of course he was straight in there

Don't take any of it too seriously is I guess what I'm saying

Bubblagirl - yes we are on the waiting list to see a SALT, but as ever these things always take time don't they.

ShowofHands - your explanation reads really well. But I do say things like 'you've got a full nappy, let mummy change it, so you will be more comfortable and then you can play again', ds still says 'no' and won't lie on his changing mat. I do count to three, which sometimes works, but his changing mat is a particular 'battle ground' (god I hate that phrase, but sometimes it feels like it is). I know I get frustrated and tired at the moment (which is probably what he is picking up on), but it just feels like he is asked / requested to do things over and over.

Also, I know he responds much better to my mum and his childminder, both of whom say they've never seen him not do something they've asked. So I know it's something in my behaviour that is eliciting his stubborness (I'm also very stubborn!).

Thanks for posting again.

pull ups!!! Cor blimey I would not still be trying to make him lie down to be changed. Lots of kids (boys particularly it seems to me) really HATE that.

also it's not your behaviour, it's the fact that you're mum and you're the safest person in the world for him to test boundaries with. That's what childhood is all about, testing the boundaries so that you learn and grow. He's doing just right and so are you imo!

dont give him the option to refuse so just say lay down im going to change your nappy not let me change it as its like your asking permission rather than taking the control iyswim my ds worked better with clear demands and no choices

i used to say do you want to go get your coat meaning go get your coat and he would say no and i would get cross and it was pointed out i was giving too many choices instead a firm go and do this or i am going to do this and it actually worked better demanding rather than asking after all we are in control and giving them a choice is also giving them the choice to say no and we have to accept that if we give them choices

also found lots of pre warning helped were going to go sit in car in a minute i want you to be really good for mummy

were going to have a bath i want you to be really big for me and again when in bath pre warning when we were going to get out

my ds had bath phobia for ages though and rarely had one at this age we found it was because he hated having his hair washed so when we finally did get him back in we flannel his hair now as it was the water on his head and down his face frightened him

we used to make games of things to see who could get to table quickest, eat quickest get in the car sitting nicely the quickest get dressed lol everything we tried to amke as fun as possible to make it less boring and had lots of positive outcomes to this too

I think I prefer giving choices on most things; the trick I think is to give two choices that you want to happen, so not 'Do you want to get your coat?' but "shall I get your coat or are you big enough to reach?" for example. Then you're not giving the option of yes/no answer to the coat question but you're still giving choice and modelling polite behaviour to them.

and id just like to add your doing a fab job and congrats on the new baby coming children are here to test us and what works for some children simply doesn't for others but i took snippets of advise and found some things really did work others no way so i hope out of this you do find some things that worked for us do work for you but also it really is so normal this is just the age for the boundaries to be set and consistency to be used its how they learn and they thrive for rules as it helps them understand what's going on

oh yes we did you do it or i will do it but no yes or no answers so we did win but my ds felt he was in control lol

My dd was potty trained at that age but I do remember the months before being trained, no way would she have willingly prostrated herself for a nappy change just like that. I did use pull ups towards the end but found that if she really needed a good clean I'd ask her to get the mat and wipes and a clean pull up, thanking her for the help, start telling her a story or something while she was getting them so she was focussed on me and she'd lie down of her own accord totally focussed on the story or song or whatever that had started when she began fetching wipes. That way her focus stayed on me and the nappy change not on anything else distracting. She almost seemed surprised it was over and done with. She was a bit younger though and easier to distract perhaps.

thanks again for posting. it's nice to hear someone say that he is testing the boundaries because he is with his mum.

i'll try with pullups, but to be honest, he poos a couple / three times a day, so i don't fancy a poo change stood up

best get on ... he's playing with dh's pc power button now

thanks for your advice.

Does he know when he's about to go? Do you know? Could introduce a potty. Sounds like the desire to not have nappy changes anymore is there, I wonder if he could translate that to holding on for the potty? DD got pooing way before being dry. She was using a potty for a poo from 18 months but wasn't dry until nearer 2. Makes pull ups much easier if it's only wee and obviously with a pull up they can take themselves to the potty. Obviously if he's not ready, he's not ready and there's bugger all point pushing it especially when 8 months pregnant!

Maybe when the baby's here he'll like sitting on the potty while the baby has a nappy change. Or maybe he'll want the nappy changes again if a sibling's getting all the attention!

Can I also say that you're doing marvellously. It's hard work having a toddler, even when they're not pushing boundaries so dealing with that and pregnancy/impending birth is quite a feat.

I suggest a cane? Failing that, the meaningful praise works for us, another poster described it really well. Good luck, and congrats on baby no. 2.

Nappy changes are tough. A couple of tactics I use are asking DS to choose a book to look at while I change him, or letting him bring a small toy from downstairs, or letting him choose where he's changed.

He can resist getting in his chair too so we let him choose a cushion to sit on, or prop his bear up on the table so he can watch big, clever DS do the straps up all by himself etc

It's all about giving the illusion of choice!

I try and persuade where possible but when that doesn't work, I also do the "I'm going to count to three..." and that gets him moving. I think he's starting to understand that Mummy has a breaking point, and he knows when he's pushing it...

Persuasion works better than shouting but it is bloody hard work...