How to deal with crying whinging 4yo

[twotimes]

I'm increasingly coming to the end of my tether with my 4yo (nearly 5) ds who cries so much. He cries over everything; if he asks for something and you say "in a minute"; if you say no; if you say wait; whatever you say except for "sure you can" ends in tears and screaming. It is seriously driving me and dh crazy but cannot get him to stop.

Does anybody have ANY ideas that I can try because it drives me crazy. The irony is he doesn't cry at school. He came home with a massive bleeding cut to his knee and I asked him what the teacher did, he said nothing. I asked "didn't you tell her you hurt yourself?" He said no. I asked, "didn't she ask why you crying?" He replied "I don't cry at school." What am I doing wrong. Absolutely everybody comments how mardy he is and besides feeling a little embarrassed myself, I don't want him growing up with that reputation of being a cry-baby or mardy.

Sorry for the long ranting post but just had a nightmare time at my grandmothers with him.

I have no advice but will be watching with interest.

My DS is 4 and cries and whines constantly (ok I'm sure its not constant but it feels that way)

I ask him what he wants for breakfast and he cries.
I tell him its time to get dressed and he cries.
I ask him to help put his toys away and he cries....You get the idea!!

I ask him why he's crying and he just says "I don't know mummy".

And then when he stops crying for a short time 23 month old DD starts.

TBH most days I feel like crying with them.

When my kids wine, cry and scream I try a two pronged attack.

First I tell them that they need to tell me what the problem is in a "big boy / girl voice" and I don't want crying / whinging etc. We have previously discussed what this is and I've given demos of what is and what isn't a big boy / girl voice.

Secondly, I walk away and ignore it all until I get better behaviour. As soon as the crying / whinging calms down I give them attention and encourage them again to tell me what the problem is in a "big boy/girl voice". They generally don't get what they want if they cry/whinge/scream.

If they are tired or hungry then I'm more sympathetic and will try to resolve that issue. I also find I pander more to my ds's wishes than my dd's because I know he is more likely to kick off if he doen't get his own way.

I absolutely cannot bear whinging though and am pretty hardline about it what it happens.

I think you need to ignore the crying, and make it clear you will not respond to him when he is crying and whining. If he continues to get attention for it he will continue doing it.

Well at least I'm not the only one Narketta I feel your pain lol.

Neolara the problem is, I'll not pay attention if you cry and whine, so then he stops and asks me again in his "proper" voice, (never thought about calling it big boy voice and will use that from now on); but what he is asking for I can't give to him, like a glass of milk at 7pm or chocolate, crisps, etc etc. When I say you can't have it right now he just starts again, even when I explain why he can't have it.

Eglu I understand not responding to him, but how do I do it. If I don't respond and he's in the room his behaviour escalates. He'll start screaming, kicking whoever's closest to him, throwing things around the room. Should I ignore all of it including the escalations?

I have no advice whatsoever as I've had the most awful weekend with my 4 year old who, it seems, screams and wails pretty much all the time. It is making me dread waking up in the morning. But it is lovely to know that I'm not the only one having trouble with that age group

I think getting him to ask for things in a proper voice is a good thing to learn in any case, so I'd carry on doing what you are already doing there.

Like Eglu, I would also suggest ignoring screaming and general whining. However, I think it might be helpful to have thought about what you consider really unacceptable behaviour. For me, that would be kicking, hitting or throwing things that could either break or hurt someone.

If my kids started doing any of these really unacceptable things, I would put them in timeout. For me, that involves putting them in a separate room, not in a "naughty corner/ step / chair". If necessary, I hold the door shut so they cannot get out. I leave the 3 year old for 3 mins, the 5 year old for 5 mins etc. I would not consider putting them in a chair / corner etc because for me, timeout is about taking attention away from them. If I had to battle for them to stay in a corner then they would be getting more, not less, attention. I don't make them say sorry because I think for very young children this is pretty meaningless - I don't think they really mean it and can just escalate the issue. If they continued hitting / throwing, they'd go staight back into time out.

But as I said, I am pretty hard line.

I've tried ignoring DS and he just gets louder and follows me around clinging to my leg. At this point I make him sit on the naughty spot but he screams so loudly and stamps his feet that I worry what the neighbours will think.

I try to sit down with him and talk to him calmly because I know there must be a reason for his crying and whining but we both end up angry and shouting at each other. I know I shouldn't shout at him and I feel like a crap mum because of it but I really don't know how to cope

I would love someone to tell me how to deal with this.

DD1 is 4 tomorrow and she cries at the drop of a hat.
Recently we have had a lot of family stress and I can't handle it so I am being fairly harsh about it now, If I have asked her for something then I say
'I didn;t ask for crying, I asked for ...'
Or like neolora I say 'I can't understand you when you talk in that voice, sorry' and walk away. 9 times out of 10 it works and within a few seconds she stops and comes after me or says something like
'I am crying because I am sad because you won't give me a bsicuit' so we can have a quick hug and talk about why I won't do seomthing sensibly.

It has been about a week and has made a huge difference, I feel like an uber bitch but the fact that she calms down pretty much instantly means, to me, that it is purely for affect.

Funnily enough she is the same at school, twice she has come out injured (2 inch cut on her hand, massive bruise on her nose) and both times the teachers had no clue she had been hurt!

When ds gets like this I try and stay calm and then just say everything to him in the same whiney voice. Usually snaps him out of it but I find the key is to pick the right moment. If his whinging goes on too long then nothing works.

Sorry, xposts.

If she escalates she has to sit on teh sofa with her Elly (he's her comfort toy) until she can talk properly. I was very firm about her having to sit until she had 'calmed down' but didn't make it a special place, just somewhere cosy and comfy.

I ca't do calm and controlled when she is throwing a wobbly, it winds me up, so I literally just sit her down and walk off, if she follows me she gets carried back over, quick kiss and stay there until you have calmed down.

I have noticed she does it more if I am dealing with DD2. A good example today is DD2 fell badly in the park and bumped her head, I asked the shop woman for something cold for her head and she gave me a lolly to hold on the bump.
DD1 immediately started crying saying she wanted a lolly. I said no, no-one is eating one. Hysterics.
I walked off and told her to hurry up as we needed to get to the car and she stopped instantly!

Narketta, when my ds clings on to my leg wailing, I try to physically remove him and walk away. However, I don't let this develop into a bunfight. If it looks like it is going to turn into a battle with him getting lots of attention from me as I peel him off me, I just let him cling and wail. But I make sure that I ignore him as he is doing it. I don't look at him. I don't make any comment. I try not to give him any attention at all. Eventually he stops.

To be honest, when my dcs are in full blown wailing, hysterical mode, there is absolutely no point whatsoever trying to have a conversation with them. It just doesn't work. It's just stokes the fire. I find it is much more effective to ignore them and then as soon as they become calmer, then immediately give them attention. When they are calm afterwards, I try to have a chat with them about what made them so cross and what they could do differently next time the same situation occurred.

Hi Narketta,
My DS has also become like this since starting school (although was lovely during half term and christmas hols).I think that he is trying so hard to be good at school that he lets off steam with me.It doesnt make it easier to deal with but makes me feel less of a rubbush parent .

I agree with Neolara that the more you try to reason with your DS the more he will step up whatever he's doing.I have been trying since christmas to ignore him when he's horrid and praise him loads when he's lovely.This does seem to be working a little.

The other thing that I've finally realised is that kids have memories like elephants and if you give in once to screaming they remember forever.As my lovely DD (aged 2) screamed at me last week 'when I cried at the woods you carried me'...the last time we went to the woods was New Years Day, and she has walked home from taking DS every day since .

Looks like the ignoring route is universal, so I'm going try that. I'll give it 2 weeks and see how it's going. I have to admit I'm really not looking forward to it but it seems like a lot of you are successful with it.

The resultant problem is how do I ignore him when we are on a bus full of people doing the school run and he's kicking off? Do you ignore them then or quietly threaten with "straight to bed when we get home" .

Hi Narketta,
My DS has also become like this since starting school (although was lovely during half term and christmas hols).I think that he is trying so hard to be good at school that he lets off steam with me.It doesnt make it easier to deal with but makes me feel less of a rubbush parent .

I agree with Neolara that the more you try to reason with your DS the more he will step up whatever he's doing.I have been trying since christmas to ignore him when he's horrid and praise him loads when he's lovely.This does seem to be working a little.

The other thing that I've finally realised is that kids have memories like elephants and if you give in once to screaming they remember forever.As my lovely DD (aged 2) screamed at me last week 'when I cried at the woods you carried me'...the last time we went to the woods was New Years Day, and she has walked home from taking DS every day since.

So try not to give in to him ever...I just need to persuade my DH to unwrap himself from DD's little finger now and do the same .

I get the best results from ignoring, a star chart for good things (bigging up doing what told, not making a fuss etc), and finally as he gets bigger, you will find you can discuss it calmly after the tantrumy thing with him. DD is 5 now an alot better.

About the bus thing, you need to ignore the other people too. I know it is really hard (and you could die of embarassment) but they don't have to deal with him when they get home, and are not responsible for his upbringing. And what they think about you as a parent or your child as a child (brat) is really not relevant. In 6 months when you see someone else suffering, you will remember that your little angel used to do that....

It's true potpourri I've just got to suck it up I guess. Well thank you ladies I feel much better than before tomorrows a new week, new day, new attitude .

Narketta and Rolf I hope you both have some luck as well x

Oh yes, for bus you have to ignore as well, I always make sure I say loudly 'That is not how to behave, I will speak to you when you have calmed down' and then ignore, that way I can at elast pretend people have heard me and realise why I am ignoring her. I find it helps to spot a granny-type and do a 'god, kids, eh?' tut with her and get them alongside as well

There's some great advice on here and I do ignore it too as that is the most effectie. However for my four year old (I doubt they are all the same) if you give him a big hug and ask what the problem really is he will immediately cheer up and answer normally and then go back to what he was doing happily. He only whines when he feels he has been treated unfairly so as sooon as you find out why and resolve whatever is upsetting him hes fine again.

i feel your pain

my DD is 4 and is a constant whiner!! it is really trying and i try to ignore but its bloody hard to!! my DD is into the habit of hitting/kicking the ignorer (me) and screaming for whatever she is moaning for at the time if she would just be less violent toward me then i may be able to deal better with the moaning/whingeing

this is going hand in hand with getting dressed in the morning and going to bed. she seems to think that most things are 'not fair' and i got a smack for my troubles when i ask her what isnt fair?

i am watching this thread with avid interest incase there are any ideas that i havent already tried

Thanks everyone for the support and comments, me and ds had a much much better day today. I think part of the problem was me thinking I was alone in that I had the only child to whinge the way my ds does, but as can be seen just from this thread; I'm not!

Today, I felt really calm and managed to nip the whinges in the bud early by trying different things mainly by remaining calm when he started up, and by making it into a joke like someone said on another thread. When he started (mostly over food, "want a biscuit" "want a drink* etc I just started whining back (but with a smile on my face) and tickling him and surprise surprise it worked. It made him laugh and calm down and when he had finished I just gave him a big hug and explained why he couldn't have whatever it was that he wanted.

Not to say this is going to work forever but it did a great deal to making me see the light at the end of the tunnel and probably that I exacerbated the situation by getting annoyed and yelling at him etc.

PandaEis I completely understand where your coming from, you can ignore it but when they start lashing out you have to do something. I had the problem of getting dressed and undressed and it was one thing that I did manage to get my ds to come around on. Have you tried (and you probably have) but have you tried letting her dress herself when you are dressing yourself. It's a pain (NO PRIVACY) but it helped me and now ds doesn't bother he just gets his clothes and carries on. Also something a friend of mine did and its really risky as it could backfire but it worked for her. Her dd wouldn't get dressed for school so she took her in her pyjamas. When dd got to school and remembered that everybody had to wear uniform she soon got embarrassed and her mom took her to the toilet where she happily got dressed and there was no more problems from then on in.

hi twotimes i have tried the take her to school in her pjs thing but she gets very very upset and still refuses to get dressed i am going to try the dressing with her thing tomorrow and see whether it works for us as most things we have tried tend not to work.

i am seriously considering super-nanny i feel like such an awful mum as i cant seem to exert any sort of control over my DD

Your absolutely not an awful mum if you were you wouldn't even care. You just have to find the right way of doing things for you both (well that's what I keep telling myself ). In all honesty though, I'm sure every mother worth her salt has felt like you do right now, I certainly felt like that yesterday, you get one good day and everything changes .

Try it tomorrow and hopefully it will work for you. If you can, lay out your clothes next to hers on the bed or something; don't make a big deal out of it, just act like it's normal, then she can see, she's putting on her top while you're putting on yours etc. My fingers are crossed for you

Also, you absolutely have to enforce that smacking mummy is unacceptable, super nanny isn't a bad idea, at least you can get definite rules.

thanks twotimes it makes me feel a little better knowing im not alone here on outofcontrol island

we have been using the naughty step for the violence and the warnings and step for bad behaviour and reward chart for good behaviour with loads of praise it is hit and miss alot of the time as it depends on DDs mood

one conversation after an episode of poor behaviour went like this...

me: DD it isnt nice to hurt mummy
DD: but i wanted to
me: mummy doesnt like it it is naughty behaviour you need to be a good girl
DD: im only being myself
me: what do you mean?
DD: im being myself and im a naughty girl

i have very very rarely ever told her she is naughty! i usually say she is a good girl who does naughty things sometimes or something of a similar vein so i dont know where she has gleaned that from

i need to stop and change my approach entirely i think

Sorry to be controversial but ignoring isn't quite universal, listening could be an option.

If a biscuit's asked for, don't "in a minute", deal with it there and then. If the answer's "no", explain that it'll spoil his tea/it'll rot his teeth/he's had enough/these are special grown-up biscuits/whatever...

"No" is a valid answer and something he'll have to get used to. Give it a try, little folk can deal with reasons for "no" if they're offered.

IMHO the key thing is consistency both in your reaction, don't do one thing one day and another the next, and delivery, how you say it. Also, never never never never never let a "no" become "yes" after whining or crying. If you want to avoid pinning yourself in a corner and leave the opportunity for flexibility try an "I'd prefer not".

Whilst developed behaviours are going to take a fair old time to shift if you can pretty much predict what'll precipitate a meltdown, perhaps try to preempt it and prevent it happening by listening to the little chap immediately before he kicks off. If it does start, prehaps get down to his level and ask him to explain why he's sad or cross.

Why does it happen at home and not at school though? Sorry to be brutal but it could be because patterns have developed where it's been demonstrated to be allowed to happen at home and not at school, i.e. crying at school has no effect whatsoever.

Having said all that, matters could be exacerbated by the levels of testosterone careering around the little chap right now: isn't 4-5 pretty much critical mass time?

Good luck with your efforts