Appalling beahavior from my nearly 4yr old son

[vikt]

My son is a paragon of virtue at playgroup 2.5 days a week and loves it. At home he is a rude spoilt brat, hitting, biting, takes hours to get him dressed, he's rude to my neighbour, he just pushes and pushes at all boundaries. He sleeps 11 hrs a night, 6.30 - 5.30, so we are just exhausted and have had enough. Advice please before i give him up for adoption! Oh and i've tried everything for extreme tolerance to raging fury and all shades in between

He had a friend over all day on `Saturday and they had a great time. The bad part came in the car park when a 70yr old neighjbour passed by - he threw a stick at her...... He doesn't like people who tell him off, basically. The friend's DD earlier had come up the stairs saying she wasn't going to let him have whatever it was, and my friend regards him as a troublamaker cos he will hit DD, normally when she's blocked him from doing anything! Hate to say it, and I don't to him, but he has my sympathy often where she's concerned! I accept anger and frustration, but its the level of rudeness and the throwing of weapons that concerns me really. Now I remember that when he was just 6 weeks old, a mass of older cousins crowded round him and he flared up. No kidding, this tiny baby let out an almighty cry and white heat flashed out of him - they all leapt back like they'd been burned! So anger is part of him, how to get him to control it is the thing. And yes, maybe the plastered wrist upsets him. Anyway, time to get him to bed... and a large G&T.

Alot of this sounds very normal for 3, sorry if that doesn't help

As so often though it is all about expectations, and understanding child development, imo. He is three, therefore very very normal for him to be "like he's some jealous lover who wants me all to himself. He will not play on his own, will not stay in a room on his own, and has always been like that". I know no 3 year olds of my acquaintance who would, or who happily share their mother's attention

With a child like this I think it is about not expecting to have adult conversations necessarily, when people come round. Or being able to get much clearing up done. Some kids just need more input, more attention and more 'policing' than others...

Your comment "I wanted a son who could look after himself, stand up and be himself" is SO sad. You are expecting WAY too much. He is 3! So sad that he is seen as a disappointment like that at this stage. And I can see that he is very hard work, of course but that comment I think is really sad for him.

The throwing of stuff is again completely normal, I am not saying it's easy to deal with but it is simply a case of being consistent, agree that stickers are a good idea because it is about looking for the positive.

Again, I've heard so often that kids can be fine when out or at other's houses, but in the home environment it's much, much harder for them - hard to share their turf, their patch, their toys etc.

Cirrhosis, I didn't mean he should be independent now, was meaning into adulthood, be a man who knows who hw is, where he's from, and hopefully be absolutely perfect, having been brought up in a big bath of unconditional love! My sister's approach to bringing up a chil is 'it's fine once you've broken their spirit' which is a billion miles from my view. It;s just that my fear right now is that he turns out a spoilt brat that nobody wants to play with - and it will be all my fault. I live in a place full of lovely yummy mummies with lovely gentle children - or so it seems to me - with nobody quite as out there as my own DS. But he is not a disappointnent to me, I have no plans to put him up for adoption nor have or will ever say anything like that to him or in front of him! He is what I wanted - a big personality, hugly enthusiastic about everything, throws his entire body into whatever he does, massively articulate verbally aswell as physically... It's just gone up a gear or two recently. And I think what I've wanted to get from this is that it is perfectly normal behavior, it's not the onset of ADHD or whatever, thst I should just bear with it, firm but kind, and whjatver other strategies work. Stickers sound worth a try and we're making a chart tonight!

vikt I think you're doing what we're all guilty of at times and that is projection. You're projecting your worries on to the future way too far imo. He is behaving like this now, because he is 3! He won't behave like this as an adult because he won't be 3 any more!!! You're clearly giving him a secure and loving upbringing, and that allied with firm and consistent boundaries around behaviour, will mean I am sure that he grows up to be a lovely person.

Keep your faith in him

Thanks everyone. I know its just a phase. Daddy's not that keen on stickers (hes a teacher) He made a lovely picture last night filled with good words about all the great things about our DS which DS has been delighted to find this norning. And because I do like the idea of stickers we're compromising and getting luscious stickers to stick an the fridge to celebrate good behavior - tis a dull silvery fridge which will look fab covered in stickers.

We have just come out of a horrible phase with DS, 3.5. During the holidays nearly all the rules went to hell and we had a child who would only eat sweets for breakfast or the hissy fit went on for hours etc, etc. I found it be be a case of giving an inch and he would take a mile so went right back to basics. Even if the main problem was not eating properly it helped to tighten up on everything, bedtimes, tidying up and pretty well everything. I also learned that a strategy that worked a month ago no longer fits as his thinking and problem-solving has moved on. The next problem is bare-faced cheek. At the week-end he was in big trouble for saying shut up so the next day he asked his Dad to "please close your mouth" Herding cats would be easier......

Good luck, everything is a phase that lasts until the next one.

Hi, not read all thread but I remember from Steve Biddulph's raising boys that 4 year old boys have a massive testosterone blast, comparable with puberty in scale.

I have certainly seen it in virtually every three/four year old boy I have known. My DS2 is just getting in the danger zone but several of his friends are in it or have even come through the other side.

Just keep as calm as you can (hahaha) and keep rules simple and clear (hahaha). And keep on bathing your son in love. And a billion organised activities and lots more physical activities .

Scooter to playschool. Scooter home via park. Snack - complex carbs so not hungry. Scooter to some other physical activity for as long as you can tolerate it. Just keep him moving. Are there any sports clubs?

Can I just ask if Steve Biddulph's book is based on evidence or just his opinion? I rememebr reading it a while ago and thinking it was all well and good but there was any evidence for his ideas...

I heard that a lot too, and have seen boys be bonkers 3-4, then calm right down to perfection at 5. In fact think that often the 5 yr old boy is the perfect male - full of uninhibited and conscious love. However someone told me the other day that it's a myth - testosterone on boys and girls is the same level until puberty!

My own DS has calmed down this week, We have stickers of a sort - just some beautiful butterflies and rainbows which we stick on him when he does something great and a big one for the the fridge at the end of a good day. He's got it! And I've calmed down too. Perhaps we all got crazy, catching each others stresses out vibes. And the thread about friends and their DCs was also very helpful.

Hadan;t been to mumsnet in ages, but it has been sooooooo great these past few days. Really helps put things in perspective. Y'all a great load of mums out there...

muppet, am not sure if there's any evidence, but I have experienced it .

Smee we didn't with ds 1 but hey, when he got to 5.... dh has a friend who calls it 'the f*cking 5's!' and for us that was true.

I just remember reading it and thinking this is all very well but where is your evidence? People can experience something but it doesn't make it scientifically based. People can read the book and think this is true becasue it's written in a book by a child 'expert'. I think Steve Biddulph is along the same lines of she-who-must-not-be-named!

I took it all with a pinch of salt too muppet, but it's still interesting to read and reflect on, especially when you're
grasping at straws. I wouldn't put SB in the same bracket as you know who though; he's holistic and she's downright dictatorial.

what do you think of Alfie Kohn's unconditional parenting?

I haven't read that one..

Quite an eye opener. I agree with some of it and not others but is based on research.

Gave me ways of approaching ds 2 without resorting to stickers although I did hate them when I was teaching too...

After a few years of trial and much error (for that's how parenting seems to be!), I've decided I don't like tangible rewards, so stickers etc for everyday things. So for helping round the house, getting dressed etc I just expect DS to do them - it's not a big deal and I'm not a tyrant about it, it's just how it is, etc. So the only time we use stickers is if DS is really truly finding something hard and is a bit freaked out - eg: medicine taking's a massive deal for him so when he had to have antibiotics a while back we did stickers for each dose, with a promise of a comic at the end of it all. The school thing's interesting too - tbh I was a bit bemused at first by the whole sticker system, but actually I can see now that it works well and is an easy way to make each child feel included/ know how they're doing.