Newbie needs sleep help/advice - spoilt baby!!

[WelshMrsP]

Hi there,
I am new here, funnily enough, my joining this website is sparked by a very topical and sensitive subject - shall we say, Nina Cord - if you know what I mean?
Right, i'll explain where I'm at and my dilemma...
I am a first time mummy to a beautiful baby boy, who was born August 21st 09. I was very much thrown in at the deep end (who isn't?!) I was told I had severe PCOS and it would be a huge struggle for my husband and I to conceive. I had a lot of weight to lose and then we would be going down the clomid etc route.
My husband and I married in September 2008 - by December 2008 i'd fallen pregnant! We were totally ecstatic and over the moon - we hadn't had time to think about the type of parents we'd like to be and how we would raise our baby. Obviously we talked about these things before marriage and throughout the pregnancy but we were perhaps a little too relaxed, and still totally amazed that our wish had been granted to make any serious decisions (slapped wrists I know - i hope I don't sound like we didnt or don't take parenting seriously, or for granted - WE DON'T) The only definite we knew was that I wanted to breastfeed and use baby led weaning when the time came.
I had a hard pregnancy, and spent a lot of time in hospital - had pre eclampsia and severe SPD....when the baby arrived it was like a total whirlwind.
For the first week I just cried - CONSTANTLY. and I mean, I WEPT! My life did not feel like living and I could not see that me being around would benefit this beautiful little bundle of joy at all. He'd be better off without me, as would my husband and I wanted OUT.
This was partly due to the hard time I had with BF'ing my boy. We had every problem under the sun when it came to feeding him and I felt totally alone, had no support and just could not understand why I was totally unable to feed my own child. I persisted however, and we're still exclusively BF'ing now no thanks to the bad advice and total lack of support from health visitors/midwives!!
Anyway, the very first day we brought my boy home, he refused to sleep anywhere but in our arms. He would be put in the moses basket or crib and would wail and wail until he was purple and sweaty. He also had crippling colic for the first 16 weeks of his life
At our wits end one night - after my husband and I not getting a wink of sleep for 3 days straight, I crept into bed, my husband sat down beside me holding the baby and we all fell asleep in our kingsize bed. Baby on daddy's chest.
This was the shape of things to come - sleep deprived, depressed and at a complete loss we just sort of 'fell' into co-sleeping.
We made no real attempt to do this, it just happened to us out of desperation.
The real bonus was it WORKED. Our boy slept 9 hours through the night from 8 weeks old, albeit in bed with us.

As he is exclusively breastfed, I could feed him on demand through the night with minimal disruption to either of us. He would turn over to me, latch himself on, finish feeding and then we'd both drift back off to sleep - this is still the case at almost 5 months old.
Another major issue is nap time, my son needs to be rocked and rocked and swayed and patted and sung to in order to fall asleep through the day. Anybody looking through our patio doors would think we had gone insane, rocking and swaying and bouncing on the balls of our feet, babe in arms, singing into his sqidgy little neck!!
Even this process takes anywhere from 15-45 mins to get him to sleep. He fights and screams and gets his notorious little temper going until, exhausted, he falls asleep.
God forbid you should actually sit down with him and stop the motion, he will rise his little head and let out PIERCING screams until we stand back up and repeat the above steps to lull him back to sleep.
Mummy & Daddy have absolutely NO time together at all. We can sneak a quick kiss and cwtch but the baby HAS to be sleeping in the crook of my arm.
During the day, he will spend a minimum of 10 mins either under his jungle gym or in his swing before shouting and screaming to be picked up again. God forbid I have to put him down to pop to the toilet!!! He has this piercing scream that i'm sure only dolphins can hear, and he will do this repeatedly until he gets his own way - somebody picking him up!
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be one of these mothers who plonk their babies down in front of the tv for hours on end - i'd just like to be able to shower, brush my hair and put a bit of make up on some days. I'd like to make myself a cup of coffee - and enjoy it! I'd even, dare I say it, like to crack on with my housework!! These are the things I should be doing while junior is napping, but no, I have unwillingly become an extension of my sofa or bed. When baby sleeps, he sleeps on me...so I am rendered out of action for the duration of his slumber.
I am bored and lonely (that's another story in itself, for another topic!)

The thing is, my son is totally and utterly SPOILT!! He is such a bright little thing too, far more intelligent than his tender few months dictate he should be and he has us well and truly wrapped round his pudgy little finger!
We have entered him into this nightmare of a routine and he is more than happy to continue with it, but I fear in the long run we are doing him an injustice.
Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy co-sleeping most of the time. It's nice to be all warm and cosy together as a family...and to wake up to big slobbery kisses and smiles from the most beautiful boy in the world - but I want my son to be able to self soothe and be able to fall asleep without needing me nearby or the bounce/rock/sway/sing method we currently employ.
My son is guilty of being a comfort suckler too, because i've always let him be and will not even entertain the though of a dummy (I think i'm glad of this though??)
As parents, we are all too guilty of taking the easy way out. We are guilty of probably, loving him too much!! We cannot bear to hear his cries and screams, to the point I often end up crying myself. If he cries, my heart aches and I want to rush to make it all better. I want to kiss him and hold him until he stops. I have always thought controlled crying is most DEFINITELY not for me.

Then, the whole Nina Cord debate comes back into the spotlight and it gets me thinking. At the moment we are the total antithesis of contented little baby style parenting. Maybe that's a good thing, my husband certainly thinks so.
My intitial response is GOOD GOD NO! It's regimented, military and so cold and unloving...but a secret part inside me wistfully wonders how nice it would be if WE had a routine, perhaps not so strict. How nice it would be to be able to put my son down through the day for naps in a crib and actually get on with some housework, a bit of me time etc. How nice it would be for my husband and I to enjoy our relationship again. At this rate my son is going to be an only child!!! ;)

And that's my story - I need a bit more routine and I need it fast, before I turn round and my son is 10 and still sleeping in our bed!! I don't want to whole no eye contact and strict feeding regime, my son is and will be demand fed for as long as we both see fit. I cannot imagine having to feed him to a timetable - I think that would be even worse for us - nut then again I am totally open to ANY suggestions for a better routine for my son.

So your opinions, advice and thoughts will all be GREATLY appreciated. Please do not be afraid to speak your mind - we need all the help we can get!

well, I'm not one to talk as I co-slept with dd until about 5

but I have to say he is still a baby and I don't think they can be spoilt at that age

I wouldn't be trying the whole cc thing so young either, it won't work but will cause alot of stress

Have you tried a bedside cot? other than that, I feel your pain, but it is still early days

I'm not an expert on anything, btw, others may be able to offer better advice

Haven't been able to read your whole post but from the gist of it it sounds like you're doing a great job, having been through the total confusion and bewilderment most new parents feel upon the arrival of their first child, muddling through and finding your own way.

If your DP is happy, your baby is thriving, and you are coping & feeling (mostly) positive about the situation, why are you worrying whether or not this situation is "broken"?

IMHO continue to demand feed your LO until he is 26wks (give or take), then gradually wean him - over the following 6 mths he'll take less from you and more from his 'solid' foods (although you should continue to BF as long as you both enjoy it - it continues to offer protection against childhood illnesses in the 2nd year, is still free & convenient, and is lovely for bonding). With regard to never being put down, you'll find that he also starts find more interest in rolling, sitting, crawling, cruising & toddling in the second half of his first year/early second year. That should take the pressure off.

In the meantime, try slings / baby walkers, get out with him in a buggy (okay from about 5-6mths) - he can look about and you can get some exercise and meet other parents & babies. Use MN to chat and get advice/ideas, and take up any offers of baby groups / local sure start classes / library nursery song sessions / coffee mornings. Most of the other mothers & babies you will see about will be glad of a chat with you - we are all starved of adult company in those early days (or at least remember how it was!)

Hope you feel more positive about it all soon.

golly, what a whopper!

points that occurred to me while reading:

1. You need a sling. DS will fall asleep and you will have both hands free. Not a Bjorn type but a wrap or an Ergo or something. Beg/borrow/hire as many as it takes to find one that works for you.

1. I think the GF approach would be to much of a leap from what you;re doing atm. Try The No-cry Sleep Solution (again borrow or get from lib to see if you fancy it)

1. He won;t still be in your bed when he's 10

1. Do you have anything that gets you out the house? I signed up for all manner of crap classes, arranged to meet people for coffee etc because they forced me to have at least one fixed point in my day.

Will he nap in the pram? I used to put a novel in the basket and walk round and round town till dd fell asleep, then nip into a cafe.

1. And he is not spoilt, he is a baby who is having his wants and needs met!

PS TheFoosa is right - you can't "spoil" a baby that young. You can only make him feel loved and secure - you are giving him a great start.

Firstly, apologies for the length of my posts - I think i am finding this all a bit too cathartic and my fingers get carried away with themselves!!

Thanks all for your reassuring replies.
I'm a born worrier and if i'm honest, a bit too influenced by the opinion of others.
People tell me I am spoiling my baby, websites online tell me I am spoiling my baby, and as much as I try to block out these opinions, a little part of them stays and plays on my mind.

I have been told you can't spoil a baby that young, but as my son is getting older I can sense that often he is screaming/crying for no reason. He is already rolling over - tries to crawl but just goes backward with bum pointed right up in the air and is very interested in the world around him - but only for very short periods of time. He needs CONSTANT attention and I find it very demanding when i'm on my own with him for the best part of 10 hours through the day when hubby is working. The old me still has pride in her home and wants it spotless and a meal prepared for hubby when he gets home.

We've tried slings - i've got 4 different ones. Several hundred pounds later, we gave up on them!! I havent however, heard of an ergo - so I will be frantically googling once i've finished on here!

Getting out of the house is something in my life I need to work on. When I met my hubby i moved to his village and we bought a cheapie house there to do up and sell on, a bit of a project to tide us over while trying for a baby. Just so happens the baby came much sooner than we ever imagined, the recession kicked in and we're left stuck in a house in the back of beyond in a tiny village where I know nobody. Currently been snowed in the house for over 10 days now - and its only getting worse!!!
So no, we don't get out nearly as much as we should be - no good for either of us I know.

As much as it may seem from my post - hubby and I are happy, we have a happy thriving baby who gives us hours of happiness and laughter - i just need reassurance that i'm doing the absolute best for my baby and that i'm not doing him more harm than good by co-sleeping.

Thanks again for your replies - i've got new things to google now - ergo, no-cry sleep solution and bedside cots - in that order!!

Do you have a bedtime routine? That really helped for us (we have 17 week twins). We started with the bedtime routine (starts at 6pm - bath, clean jammies, story, loooooooong feed, bed - repeat feed/bed as many times as needed), and then have very gradually let the boys fall into a routine that suits them from there.

A real godsend is a white noise machine in the nursery (we have one that sounds like waves breaking). It means LO isn't woken by noises when they are drifting off. Also we had a breakthrough when we discovered that ours needed a nap after 1 1/2 hours ish of being awake.Our 'routine is loosley based on the EASY routine in Baby Whisperer, which I got free with a magazine!) So our day goes:

They wake me up (sometime between 6.30 and 8ish)
I feed them
we play (door bouncer, stories, activity mat, walk)
They start to yawn/get grumpy and then go for a sleep.
Aout an hour later, they wake up and I feed them.....

The 'cycle' isabout 2 1/2 hrs between feeds.

ps I wanted to have them in with us but our room isn't big enough for them both (they shared a cotbed in the early days). They generally sleep 8pm -4am then 5-8am., with 3 or 4 hour-long naps in the daytime.

We do have a bedroom routine- well a very loose one lol.
I express a bottle of milk for the last big feed of the night, which daddy gives. So its bath, bottle of expressed milk with daddy, stories and lullabies in bed between us until he falls asleep, usually by comfort suckling himself to sleep.
The only problem is the time. 2 days out of 5, my husband works until late and doesn't get home til gone 9.30 - which means our bedtime routine doesn't start until 10ish and goes on way past midnight. This is NOT good as it means then the baby does not wake up until 10-11am the next day.

You get a lie in!? Can't be all bad!

pps don't get a bedside cot - you can just make your cot with only 3 sides and tie it to the bed.

He sounds a little bit like my ds WMP. Ds has never been big on daytime naps (except at nursery - peer pressure, grrrr) and I spent a lot of the first 6 months of his life holding him.

But you know what? I look back on that time now (he's three) and I'm glad I held him. Not much housework got done but I got to cuddle my wee boy a lot. It felt good and it's a nice memory.

He's not in our bed now and hasn't been for a long time. We've got a decent bedtime routine going, and we pretty much stick to the timing so if dh isn't in I do it myself and vice versa. Ds is a delight (most of the time) and I don't think you could tell which of my friend & I had a strict routine or not.

I'm a pretty laid back person though and I think you maybe like things to be a bit more organised so maybe more routine would suit you better, I really believe though that even if you change nothing your ds just growing up will change the way things are for you and make things easier.

Enjoy your baby!

You're not 'spoiling' anyone.

Get an Ergo www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=ergo+baby+carrier&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=4436235573&r ef=pdsl8xh2mwtepf_e back carrier - your hands are free, your baby feels safe and can nap/watch the world go by.

Some babies are just like this, IMO. It's nothing you've done, you play the cards you're dealt. Yours were for a baby who needs a lot of touch and closeness.

My DS was/is like this, my DD, far less so.

There's a lot of road to travel before you're worrying about a 10 year old in your bed! You'll get there.

I do think once the weather lets up you should make it a priority to get out more though. Everything feels better once you've been out for a bit, especially if you can get some adult conversation. Helps with the sleep too!

Before you buy any more slings, what have you tried? What went wrong? Lots of sling experts on here

I second the No Cry Sleep Solution - there is a thread running at the moment where a load of us are trying it together.

(and if you fancy selling any of those slings I am on the lookout - have you a Closer sling or a Mei Tai type? )

pssst mrsb have a nice cwtshi mai tai.

here

Padded shoulder straps, but nice and light, I used it in the summer with mine.

Our ds was like this during the day although by some miracle did sleep in his own cot at night.

I had the same problems with breast feeding and I felt so guilty when I had to use formula after getting no help or support. It litterally haunted me for months afterwards that my ds was so hungry and I couldn't do the most natural thing and feed my own child. All I can say is congratulations for sticking with it! It's just so sad how little help some people are given.

Your day time naps and the endless rocking and swaying brings back so many memories for me. We would spend half an hour or more rocking him to music in the dining room. Ten I couldn't put him down once he was asleep. I just had to sit on the sofa with him and like you if I sat down before he was fully asleep, the whole process had to start all over again and he'd scream and cry. It was exhausting. I tried all ways to feed him to sleep, leave him in his cot for a few minutes and kept going back to check on him but he would just shriek and cry until he was so wound up it was so hard to calm him down again.

Like your ds he wouldn't take a dummy (which I am very grateful for now!) and never went under a baby gym, just wanted to be up in our arms and being walked about with.

Your ds is deffinitely not spoilt. Some babies are just hard work..

For us it just changed with time. No strict routine or controlled cryingwould have worked for him or us. If he cried, I picked him up, if he needed rocking, I rocked him, feeding, I fed him (albeit with a bottle). I just didn't feel that any sleep training or leaving him to cry was natural for him at such a young age (still don't and he's 2.5 yrs but that's my own issue!)

He hasn't grown up to be at all spoilt. Things gradually just calmed down as he got older/ could sit up/ walk/ needed less naps so my entire day wasn't a cycle of rocking him and listening to him cry through over tiredness.

The same will happen for you. He will grow and things will change so quickly but I know it doesn't feel like that now. I think me and dh went for about 9 months and never ate at the same time cos one of us always had ds in our arms. We never did anything together and it was miserable I won't lie but it did pass.

Don't know if it's been mentioned but the Baby Whisperer books are very interesting and do offer different methods of putting your baby into a gentle routine which some of it we tried to follow with some success. She goes through how certain things will work for certain personalities of babies and has questions for you to work out what personality your baby has and what solutions will work for him. Good luck.

Big sympathy. And congratulations on your beautiful baby.

If it's any consolation I am in a very similar position. In fact, my DH just looked over my shoulder and said, "did you write that??" Same age baby, both boys, co-sleeping (mainly), can't get him settled until midnight after HUGE feeding. Also, wondering if I should have "routined" my baby...?

However, I am not isolated as I live in my hometown with extended family. I bet you can find another Mum who would be grateful of your company. She could come to you at first, if it is difficult getting out.

Do you have local Well Baby clinics? Or breastfeeding drop-ins (after the thaw, of course). Everyone is always pleased to compare notes about babies at these places. Be careful though, when I hear about "textbook babies" "goes down at 7" "has slept through from day 3" I am often on the brink of tears, so steal yourself.
BUT I bet you will hear more examples of things that aren't going perfectly.

I have things a bit different in that I have two older ones and have to get up at 6.30am in order to get ready for the school run. I am a wreck!

Seek adult company, chat to HCP (phone your HV first thing in the morning), realise that you and DH will go out for a meal again soon. The main thing that is keeping me from losing it at the moment is knowing that it WON'T last forever, and think of all the sympathy/advice you'll be able to share in a few months time to the other new mums!

Don't read books. Ignore all 'gurus'.

I have no idea who Nina Cord is. And I'm not going to Google her, either. I don't care what she thinks about anything.

My boy is two months older than yours. He can get to sleep on his own (I started him early), but he still wakes, and feeds, through the night. We partly co-sleep and partly don't.

Mostly we're happy together. Sometimes he drives me up the wall.

Here's my tip: babies cry... Sure, it's heartbreaking, but sometimes you have to tuck them up in their cots and close the door, and take ten minutes for yourself.

Here's my second tip: throw away the guru books. If you can dip in and out of them and cherry pick the bits that suit you, then they might be useful, but it sounds to me like you're taking them too seriously.

Third and final tip: post here, but shorter posts, please! I totally get that your baby was a wonderful miracle you didn't expect, but I couldn't read what you wrote - too long!! I'm taking from your posts and replies above that you want to know how to get baby to sleep, but I might be wrong... [ahock]

Good luck.

It will not last long and you are definetely not spoiling your child- in fact, I believe it's impossible to spoil a 5 month old baby. His crying is the only way for him to express his emotions and he is not doing it to annoy you- he just doesn't know any better way.

Get an Ergo or a Beco- www.becobabycarrier.com/. They will help you in getting out of the house and are nice to carry your baby inside the house as well. Try to get on the mixed demand/fixed time feeding- it will also get you a bit of routine and a bit more predictability into your life. Get out of the house- either with a stroller or with a Beco/Ergo- may be, your son will sleep outside and it will give you a bit more time for yourself. I know it's hard not to be able to plan anything- but it will get better with time!!! Meanwhile, try to ignore all the advice and get on with whatever works for you and your family.

Thanks again all. And i'm really, genuinely sorry if my original post was too lengthy for this kind of forum - i'm still learning.

It's been nice to read your replies and I appreciate all of your views and opinions - won't respond to youur points individually because i know myself, i'll ramble on for ever!!

WMP I also could have written your posts a few months ago! DS is now 16 months and things are so different.

Anyway, my first thought is to think about what you want to change, and what you feel you should change. IMO it's only worth changing the things that are actually upsetting the way you want to be, rather than the ones that you feel you should be doing. For instance, I feel you're happy co-sleeping, but feel that you ought not to. Bugger that! You've survived doing it this long, doing it a bit longer isn't going to hurt.

But you do sound like you would like a bit more me-time. Even though your me-time will be measured in seconds at the moment, and eventually minutes... Couple of things I'd suggest:

• Could you putting his baby gym in the bathroom for shower/washing etc? The combination of you pulling faces at him from the shower and his baby gym may give you long enough for a quick wash.
• Also definitely recommend starting a thread in the sling/backpack topic and asking for help - I hated all carriers, and randomly found that a really long woven wrap (sometimes cited as a difficult sling to use unless you are a more experienced user) the best one for me. I can only do one carrying method with it, but can still comfortably carry my 30lb toddler!
• Get efficient at doing the bare minimum - if you cook, cook BIG so you can have leftovers the next day (post on Food topic for ideas) etc
• Find time for a snog every now and again - a good way of keeping at least a bit in touch without actually finding the time for sex
• Instead of thinking about a routine, think of what time you want to do certain things - i.e have a vague aim to eat breakfast by 9am, even if DS isn't thrilled, a vague aim to go for a walk with the pram by 3pm, or whatever.

Does your DS sleep in the pram if you go for walks?

it could be silent reflux, my dd1 was like your baby and in retrospect i should have enquired about this.

my dd2 was a very easy baby

First of all, it will get easier. Second of all, as everyone has said, you aren't spoiling him. Having said that, he honestly won't die if he cries for 5 minutes, even if you heart tells you otherwise. Therefore, it's time to take a shower.

Third, pop him in his car seat if nothing else and bring him into the bathroom with you. You can talk to him, blow him kisses, play silly faces or whatever you like while you take a shower and brush your hair. He might cry, but you might be able to handle it better with smooth sleek washed hair. Only partly kidding about that; you have to look after yourself to be up to looking after your son.

And fourth, as others have also said, go forth! Get out there and meet people. Go to your local cafe in the mornings, find a playgroup in your area, go to the local park and talk to the other parents you meet there. You will feel a lot better and saner as soon as you meet some other parents and swap stories.

Good luck and take comfort in the fact you are doing a great job from the sounds of it!