Colic/Silent Reflux/Hunger/Normal Fussiness - how the hell do you tell ??

[Tillyscoutsmum]

DS is almost 4 weeks old and he seems perpetually unhappy and unsettled

He mostly feeds every 1.5-2 hours day and night with a couple of cluster feed sessions - usually one late morning and one in the evening. He will not be put down in between feeds and sometimes can be cuddled/rocked to sleep but mostly he is screaming - proper red in the face, angry at the world screaming .

Feeding him does seem to settle him momentarily but he will then often pull off and start screaming straight after.

DD was such a chilled baby so I don't know whether this is just absolutely normal or whether there is some reason for it.

Is it colic ? Or is he hungry and not getting enough from me for some reason ? How on earth do you tell ?

My son had reflux. He used to arch his back so much that you couldn't really hold him properly. What does your HV say. Trust your instincts, if you feel something is wrong there probably is and you need help to get it sorted.

Thanks. Not much back arching but lots of scratching/banging fists on chest etc.

Am seeing HV tomorrow so will mention again but she just seemed to think its just what babies do last time

Tils how much sleep is he getting?

At 4 weeks he should be getting about 18hrs a day asleep. Irritability is often caused by tiredness usualy shown by agressive thrashing of arms and legs and red faced screaming. The first few thrashings of the arms and legs after a good feed and nappy change is the sign for sleep. Like us not enough sleep is very likely to make him very miserable.

Good Luck with the health visitor tomorrow.

my DS screamed - he had silent reflux

the pulling off and screaming can be a sign as well as back arching, long feeds (comfort), screaming, not wanting to be laid down

boys are more prone to reflux

as for the sleep - i have never had a newborn who slept 18 hours per day BUT if he does have reflux it will disturb his sleep (perhaps significantly)

My first two didn't sleep that long either Ruby but my third did and she was a different baby.

Really sounds like it could be a silent reflux thing, maybe a combination of that and therefore leading to not enough sleep etc..

tils, if you feel it could be then push for areferal or answers answers tomorrow.

Oooooops can you tell I am rushing out the door to aerobics..

Tills have you tried really swaddling him tight.

my ds was like this. dd a breeze in comparison. had to grin and bear it for 8 -10 weeks, think it was a wind thing. in the end put him on his front.....I know I know but it worked, in the big cot and he was much better.

my experience is that my DS is at war with the world constantly - he's 6 years now - gorgeous, bright, enthusiastic, exuberant etc etc but still wants to do battle all the time, where my DD is at one with it all and has been since birth. i read an amazing Doris Lessing book " the Cleft " that so describes this.

not saying its all boys and girls but hell its mine to a t.

Thanks again everyone

Jam - have tried swaddling but he hates it. He likes the sling though and his arms are pretty squished in in there so I suspect swaddling might work if he shut up screaming long enough to let it iyswim ? Trouble with second ones is that you don't want to let them scream for too long because I don't want him to wake up Tils

Moi - I think you might have something with the tiredness thing. He was better yesterday because T was at nursery so he wasn't being poked and prodded all day

I think the problem is, he wakes up after sleeping for an hour and can't settle himself back to sleep (understandably), he then screams, I try and bf him (because nothing else seems to settle him) and he then gets frustrated and his tummy gets upset/windy, because he didn't actually want milk. Not sure what the solution is though ...?

I don't think its reflux because he will sleep (on his back) for an hour at a time at night (sometimes 2) . He's also gaining loads of weight

Alpen - please don't tell me that I almost hope its colic so there's an end to it ! Will have a look at the book though if it doesn't get better. Blardy boys

um sorry - ds1 wasexactly like this- combinaiton of colic, refux, eczema, allergies... ds2 not as bad but also had some of the above. not much i can tell you ((sorry, bf and 1 hand typing!) def see a paediatric gastroenterologist. It will get better in time!

Tils how do you feel about a soother? Will he take that to settle back to sleep? Could you try him in his pram to sleep? you could give him a little wiggle each time he stirs.
The need for sleep is often missed and replaced by a feed but as you say often this agitates them more and could lead to comfort and ineficient feeding.

TYG, found a really useful article (or she may have even explained it) when our may babies were tiny about the relation between sleep and a contented baby, it gave all the signs, difference in cries etc for food, frustration, tiredness etc.. I remeber it as after I read it I started watching J and it really was evident. I'll try and find it.

My girls were both tummy sleepers!

have a look at this

and this

I've no chance in finding the post from TYG, nothing coming up on search, but both of these are quite interesting from a sleep and unhappy baby point of view.

I think it's often missed just how much sleep a new baby needs, really by the time they have fed and had a nappy change, cooed for a few minutes they are ready for sleep again. J was definately like this, very boring! BUT yes, getting them to sleep and to stay asleep is a whole new problem, I guese I was just luck with J, mind you, she was ignored alot with her needy bigger sister around.

I would suggest swaddling him and popping him in the sling as he likes one and is unsure about the other, he sould be sleeping longer than he is feeding, can you pop him in another room so he is undisturbed at nap times?

Overfeeding can cause tummy pain and tho the 'books' say no pacifier for 6 weeks i would give it a go, MAM or Avent are the ones i have found most widely taken by babies. Sucking is a natural feeding and comforting reflex.

Ds had colic (started on day 3!) - when really bad it would start at about 7pm and last until 4.30/5.30am (we took shifts). His cry was 'different' from normal. He also wouldn't settle to feeding - he would shake his head backwards and forwards rather than latching on. Rocking in a swing helped a bit. Colief helped quite a bit - its a real faff if you're bf, but better that than colic - but he was sorted out by a cranial osteopath - after the 3rd treatment the colic just went.

Ds also didn't like being put down if you were there - quite happy to go to sleep in arms/on lap, but even if you put him down gently in basket/baby seat he would immediately wake up.

I remember that article that TYG found. Am sure I have her number somewhere will text her and see if she can remember it and then she can post it on our other thread for you.

I thought DS1 hated swaddling too so I stopped doing it. On reflection he was fighting the sleeping not the swaddling with DS2 he had to be left a bit to have a shout and he settled with the swaddling.

Do try a dummy it may help..

Also dont worry too much about waking Tills you will be surprised at how quickly she learns to sleep through Fergs cries otherwise you are likely to end up with what I have DS2 13 months and still wont sleep through the night as I used to jump at every noise worried that he would wake DS1.

Thanks again.

I have no problem with soothers and have tried a couple of different ones but can't get him to take one. I've heard a couple of people suggest the MAM ones so will see if they're any better.

Thanks for the links Moi and Jam, I suspect you may be right about swaddling. I'll give it another go. Did any of you buy special swaddle blankets or did you just use a normal sheet/thin blanket ?

We've been out and about today so he's spent a lot of time in his car seat and in his snow suit and has slept better than he ever does normally . He even had a 3 hour gap for one of his feeds which is the longest he has gone between feeds since birth

We've got one of those Amby hammocks for him to sleep in, the theory being it will rock/bounce him back to sleep when he wakes and I stupidly smugly thought they were brilliant because Til was a pretty good sleeper but now I know its no miracle worker !

Thank you again for the responses - it really does help

How much wriggling room did he have in his snowsuit?

It sounds like 2 things happened - he was restrained and snuggly warm.

Swaddling with a normal blanket with a bit of stretch in it, specialist blankets with velcro often aren't in the right place.

This video is good for technique

My 14 month old has had silent reflux since he was 1-2 weeks old. He screamed and was inconsoulable all the time he was awake. He had violent hiccupping and gulping/splashing noises (can hear the refluxed milk), choked constantly even hours after a feed, fed every 1-2 hrs and only slept for 20 mins at a time. It was awful. He was admitted to hospital at 4 weeks due to stopping breathing with the choking. That's when he was diagnosed with GERd (reflux).

The amby bed helped my DS as did medication to stop the acid. He still has it but 95% outgrow it by 4-12 months.

Ds had reflux

1. he gained weight very, very slowly
2. he didn't sleep during the day
3. it lasted well beyond 3 months
4. he hiccuped a lot
5. he demanded the breast constantly but pulled away after a couple of minutes
6. he pretty much outright refused to drink from a bottle
7. he often woke up at night unable to breathe (aspired reflux)

but in the end the way it was checked was using a ph probe on his oesophagus. That's how we knew for sure.

Yes of course warmpth... make sure he's warm enough whentrying to get him to sleep, we can't sleep or settle unless we are cosy. Vest, babygrow and a cardi but obviously don't let him overheat.

Have you heard of Harvey Karp? He's an American paed who has a technique he calls the 5 S's for soothing babies. It's amazing to watch him doing it - have a google and see if you can find a clip on youtube or something. Anyway, he has a book called Baby Bliss I think, and I found it really useful.

It's basically a very precise way of jiggling a swaddled baby plus using white noise and letting them suck. Works like magic.

Dd2 was a screamer and we were told it was 'silent reflux', but somehow I just never felt that was quite right, and she grew out of it. It feels a bit to me that people now say 'silent reflux' when they don't know why a baby is screaming, when previously they would probably have said, 'colic', and neither is all that helpful or necessarily true.

Re. swaddling - we had success with the mothercare swaddling blanket (miracle blanket), but I could never get the hang of swaddling tight enough with a normal blanket.

Thanks again to everyone for sharing their experiences. The more I hear, the more I think it isn't silent reflux. DS does gag/choke sometimes and he does hiccup a lot but other than that, doesn't have any other symptoms.

Aranea - I think I remember seeing Harvey Karp on sometime daytime tv programme a while ago. Will have another look to refresh my memory.

Was going shopping today for MAM soothers and a blanket for swaddling (the one we tried last night was a bit too small I think) but now I'm snowed in . He was better last night for having more sleep (and less frequent feeds) in the day though so I'm hoping we can do the same today

I'm going to have a go at expressing today so that DH can do one of the evening feeds and I can get an extra few hours sleep. It would all be so much easier with a bit more sleep ..... (the motto of any new mum I expect )

i used these blankets oyu can get them on amazon really good size a nd lovely and warm

Thanks - have ordered one