What am I doing wrong that my 4yr old DD just tantrums all the time!

[MyCatIsABiggerBastardThanYours]

Last few weeks she's been a nightmare. Obviously Christmas has its part to play but honestly, it's like dealing with a tantruming toddler again.

Everything I do is wrong 'I said milk mummy, not juice' 'I don't like sausages/pasta/cheese/chicken ' 'no I don't want to go out/no I don't want to stay in'. She is driving me mad!

I'm obviously doing something wrong. 90% of the time I'm quite calm and just keep repeating what I want to happen 'put your shoes away/we're going out/we're staying in' and I'm happy to compromise etc. Then 10% of the time I lose my temper because after everything I've said or done has been argued with or rejected, you just lose it. I'm not a saint! She's just in her bedroom screaming because she asked me to help her to get out the bath, I go to help her, cue argument about her not wanting to get out of the bath FGS! I have been very calm with her and told her to stay in her room until she can say sorry to me and stop screaming (we're on 30mins of yelling now!).

Please someone give me some tips and possibly a great big alcoholic drink!

But why is everything so harde. WHen does the easy stage arrive? She always does this. We'd just got over the three's then this crap.

I had a very tantrummy DS1 (age 2-4), and occasionally now. Have a look at this book:

"Playful Parenting".

quite good on finding cunning jokey ways to get them to do want you want.

My sympathies

I;ll have a look at that book, thanks. I'm just sick of everything being argued over and a battle. For once I'd just like her to say 'ok mummy' and all be calm and well.

TO be fair, she does do that but when she is in tantrum mode everthing is hard.

Phew - it's not just me and mine then.

Get yourself a copy of the book "How to talk so kids listen and listen so kids talk", it is the best book ever and will definately help you loads with your tantruming DD.

Good luck!

OMDB - I have got that book but just couldn't get on with it. I'll give it another try because it is recommended a lot on here.

Beasknees - nope, not just you. My DS (10mths) is a breeze compared to DD.

CAt - I think that book 'How to talk' is pretty brilliant as well. Having said that I do remember this sort of thing with DS at that sort of age...and it does get easier I PROMISE. I can't quite recall when though - he is nearly 7 now but I'm sure it's been easier for a while!!!

Persevere again with the book, and if there is anything you don't like or don't understand in the book just start a thread on it here, it was only after lots of discussion about the book on here with others that I really got into it properly.

hells- thanks for that. I will definitely dig out the book again. It is a bit easier than the total horror that was 3. There were never any breaks at all with that. I really need to find ways of managing this. It's so unfair on all of us, including DD.

Sazzles - thanks for the brain dump. I shall indeed use some of those. I like the of course you can one very much. I shall be doing that allll day tomorrow now, just to see what happends.

She'll probably have lots of fun with your DD - she's not always a demon.

SazzlesA - those are brill. Lightening your tone is a really good idea (and links in with the book I've recommended above as well)

Another one to try is "singing" your requests. Makes them laugh and defuses tension.

I use it with 2 and 3 year olds where I work.

shiney - clearly you have natural wisdom

Need to join this thread. Have nightmare DD (4) who is delightful, charming, funny, bright and a fucking pain in the arse. Especially at bedtime. Have posted before on this, still struggling.

I am reading Playful Parenting, and trying to apply How to Talk, but it IS exhausting. I am finding that being firmer and saying 'no' more often is improving the situation, also not engaging with situations like the bath one. I get that a lot - 'I want to get out on my own' - sits like a statue - 'come on then, get out on your own' - 'lift me out' - 'ok then' - 'no! I can do it on my own' etc etc etc. I used to get into a tussle with her, now I just walk out of the bathroom and say 'let me know when you're ready to get out'.

I really do sympathise. And need help as much as you do!

Lots of good advice on here - would also like to say 'you are not alone' - sounds VERY similar to my 3.6 year old dd (although am now scared it is going to last until 4...)

To be fair, she is OK the majority of the time, but when she is in a tantrummy/contradictory mood (often to do with being tired) she is a NIGHTMARE. Screaming about not being able to put her socks on....then refusing help...then screaming about no one helping her and so on, and so forth.

I find trying to be funny makes her worse (although fully accept it has its time and place depending on the child>) In DDs case she thinks you are taking the piss ('NOOOOO, it's NOT a game. STOPPPPP singing. You are LAUGHING at me. Get OUUUTTTT of my room. You are NAASSTTYYY.') God knows what she will be like at 13/14.....

I ignore her when she is in the shouting/screaming phase so she learns that nothig gets done/no attention is paid. If she trys hitting/pushing/door slamming during it she is warned and then told she will be placed on the timeout step when she has finished screaming. Which I do.

Hi all. I feel better just reading this thread - my kids are normal after all!

But something I am struggling with - my DD's are 4yr and 5 yrs and individually they are
fairly manageable - still stubborn, often tantrumy - but I can usually get them to do what I want without major meltdown.

BUT, when they are together they are a NIGHTMARE - they get really giddy and silly, and the most annoying and frustrating thing is they seem to go completely deaf. I have to physically go to them and kneel in front of them to get their attention and unless I do this they just ignore me - they seem totally switched off to anything outside the two of them. Has anybody else experienced this and do you have any tips to deal with it?

Thanks!

My dd has this particular, and to my mind horrendously aggravating "blank" look on her face when she is deliberately ignoring me. It winds me up at age 3, when the subject is only as uncontentious as "please let me help you get dressed" god only knows how much it's going to annoy me when we discuss curfews, sex and drugs when she's a teen...

Yes, sell My boys are 6 and 9 and the only way I can get their attention is to separate them. I send them off to their rooms on a task if I can, or if we are about to go out and they are messing about, I ask one to sit on the stair, and the other to wait in the lounge.

Another thing that I find helps in the mornings, is to get myself completely ready to go out, keys ready etc, before I round them up. I find if there's a delay before we go out then the messing about starts up again and I end up shouting at them as we head out the door .....

The advice by CJCregg not to engage is good too. I think that when they get to around 3 or 4 and are nice and verbal, the temptation is to enter into a debate about things. The problem is they don't have the emotional control to be reasonable and you end up just getting sucked into a negotiation..

Thanks Jamie I'm glad it's not just my two - it has been getting so bad with them that I was starting to think either I'm a crap parent or my kids have a fatal flaw.

Separating them sounds like a good plan and no negotiation also sounds sensible. I shall try both.

Thanks

sell - my two used to fight all the time (biting and everything), and I used to long for the day they would get on with each other.

I got my wish, but now they just mess about instead.
And don't get me started on the Noise ....

Wow, not been on today til now (its been a snomwan building extravaganza in this house today). It is good to know I'm not alone on this.

I had a showdown with her last night in the end. It was the 'help me out the bath' - 'no don't help me out the bath' that did it.

I told her I;d had enough and she was going to bed then. That was 5:30. I left her there til my DH went to quieten her down at around 6:30 (had to because DS was going to bed and noone could have slept through that racket).

Anyway, she now knows I mean business (again, we have these stand offs about once every 3 months) and has been really very good today.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Christ this parenting lark is bloody hard work.

Sazz - Its good advice and I did think about that after I saw you on Monday. SHe has had a lot of carbs today (spuds and pasta to you and me) and has been a lot better.

FUnnily enough I was looking at a hand print she did in early december at nursery today, and either they've given me the wrong hand print or she has grown because she couldn't fit her hand in it today.

Hopefully thats it now for a few weeks til the next storm arrives!

It often helps DS do things if I say "can you do x before I count to (say) 30, ready steady GO" and he will instantly stop arguing and do whatever (I think that has a 100% success rate so far, but I don't always remember to do it. It worked when DD was younger too). It helps to completely disengage from the argument too - get a book to read and say you'll read it until she's ready to get out. They get very bored with that very quickly (and they don't much like me reading herb books to them!). Or talk about what you can do when they are dry - "what book shall we read for bedtime?" etc.

DD (10) was an expert at drawing me into an argument before I realised what was happening, but many years of practise now mean I have perfected the art of ignoring and not getting drawn in. It took me ages to realise that she would deliberately argue the opposite to me every time just for the sake of arguing. Just last year, I was reading a book with DS (while DD was in a mood) and it described a crescent moon as pointy (or whatever). She starting going on about the moon being round and how stupid the book was to call it pointy and I tried to explain what a crescent moon was but she wasn't having any of it. The following day I showed her a picture of a crescent moon (she was in a better mood) and she said "yes, I know". Arguing just for the sake of it.

And it was funny yesterday to see her behave exactly the same way as me when her friend was arguing with her. And it worked for her too.