Charming, bright, energetic 2.5yo ds (pfb!) but discipline just doesn't work

[Ilovemybed]

Ds is lovely, gorgeous, bright and cheeky. The problem is that I don't feel I have an ultimate sanction over him. If I stop 'STOP!' in my super scary voice it will only work 75% of the time. '1,2,3......' also can have mixed results. We have always had firm boundaries and tried to be firm parents.

I've read 'How to talk' and 'Toddler Taming'. I love 'How to talk' - it's such a good book for life, let along children. I try not to threaten without carrying through. The only threats that work are for him to be put in his room (no stairs) or put in the pushchair (which he hates).

Is he just too young? My parents get quite good behaviour from him but they do seem to spend most of their time telling him off. Which is what they used to do to me, which was fine but it just meant I had no self discipline and whenever left to my own devices would go off the rails.

So I guess my questions are...... is it OK that sometime I can't stop him doing things (to my parents this is a no-no)? Will it get better with age? Will being less shouty than my parents were teach self discipline?

Sorry for the post, I guess it's more about the ethos than the day to day living. Though I would love to shout 'STOP' and he stops, just like all my friend's children do.

Our ds will get 2 warnings and after the 2nd if he does it again he gets a time out, he hates it and cries but we always follow through with it, otherwise he will push his luck further and further each time.
He is 4 now and very rarely has to have a time out but we have been doing this since he was about 20 months.

if you like reading you might find: do not disturb by Deborah Jackson, subtitled, the benefits of relaxed parenting for you and your child! interesting. I read it before I had my first dd (now aged 15yrs) and it transformed what I took issue with and what I didn't. It really took the angst out of a lot of the stuff I would probably have bothered about. I have a 2.1 yr old as well so am doing toddlerdom all over again. Yesterday I bought a coat in the sale (doesn't happen often) - dd went into changing room and said 'I want to put some pretty clothes on' - took off coat and cardigan, trousers and knickers! whilst repeating above sentence. When clothes were put back on she was very upset. Got her out of shop as soon as possible, tried a bit of distraction, gave her a hug and put it down to experience. when they are little they can always be picked up and moved! I find the whole adults ticking small children off thing really unpleasant. they are usually only exploring their world or copying somebody else's behaviour. Anyway, I make a very poor imitation of Deborah jackson - what she says is really though provoking! All the best

sorry - got busy! Thank you for your replies, I will get that book and I love reading parenting books [saddo].

Time out work for us too, I just a get a bit stuck when we're in the park without the pushchair, I have no recourse.

anyway happy new year!

merrilyverily Do not Disturb arrived today - I just started it and I am looking forward to reading it.

She's already mentioned Adele Faber (one of the How to Talk authors). I love it when my favourite childcare experts reference each other. [sad cow emoticon]

I would like to just add the following thoughts:
1- Decide your battles if it is not that big of a deal don't make it one.
2- Try where possible to distract.
3- Ignore as much as possible.

I am not a big fan of the naughty spot etc.

I'm struggling with similar issues. I've tried time out / naughty step but am currently really struggling to see it through cos I don't like seeing my DD upset.

She either see's the step as a game, or gets so upset that I don't think it has any positive impact on her behaviour, but I just don't know what else to try.

Not sure if I'm doing the time out thing right or wrong? She's 3.

Any ideas anyone?

I'm with cloudhopper. Choose your battles.

Would also say: use distraction if you can. Completely blank out temper tantrums, but don't hold grudges when they have finished. Model the behaviour you wish them to emulate (e.g. not sulking, not shouting, being polite etc). Remove temptations from sight. Try to get them into routines which prevent potentials for problems (e.g. always do crayons at a table - so that it becomes a habit, then they are less likely to redecorate).

At 2-3, it's hard for them to control curiosity and they want to be into everything. I really think most kids want to be liked and loved, and will behave well if given the opportunity to. Mine usually get up to mischief when they don't have anything to do - so whilst I don't do stuff with them all the time, I try to give them something to do before I get on with what I have to do, or I involve them in the jobs I'm doing, and just try to accept that it's going to take twice as long.

When they get to 4-5, they start to understand right & wrong, and then I definitely think that it's appropriate to have some warning / punishment (e.g. removal of favourite toy for X amount of time, no television that day etc.) thing, or else motivational systems (e.g. starcharts for good sleeping, leading to treat at the weekend).

Don't know if this is useful to you.

Your DS sounds a lot like my DD. She is beautiful, bright and a right little madam. She's very independant and likes what she likes. She is has great concentration and loves learning and has us all in stiches with the funny things she says and does. However, she can throw wobblers with the best of them and can be quite spirited.

I think 2.5 is too young for too much discipline. They are still learning the ways of the world and want to be soooo independant and grown up. They think the world revolves around them and it's too much for them to deal with isn't it, they may unwittingly put themselves in danger. So, my feelings are that we need to be strict so we can stop them from hurting themselves. However, some of the smaller things I think we need to let go.

I told my first child off all the time. It stressed me out, stressed him out and looking back I was over the top. I am more relaxed with DD.

It's hard to find a "style" and my style has change with each child. What works for others may not work for you. Also, all kids are different and some will be naughtier than others.......I am a firm believe in nature outweighing nurture at this young age. My babies had personalities when they were born which have not really changed.

Good luck with it all.

TP x

Thank you all. A brief update. I read 'do not disturb' and 'How to talk' (again for the 10th time). DH read 'how to talk', then we talked and decided what we were doing wasn't working.

So we are trying prevention rather than cure. And do you know what? It's working! We have no tantrums, have a lot less stress, and ds seems happier. I do 'tell him off' when he does something dangerous but have stopped doing timeouts.

We didn't even get that shouty before as we had already learnt to pick our battles. But I am making a real effort to ask why ds is upset or doesn't want to do something and then listen to what he says. Our last bugbear is getting dressed but next time I get a catlogue in the post we are going to make a collage of 'things to wear' and pin it up in his rooms to see if it helps.

I might be one of those parents who talks to their child about their bad behaviour rather than seeming to do any discipline but at the mo it's all good.

thank you for all your replies. Even though my first post was a couple of weeks ago I think I have moved forward quite a lot since then.

can you expand a bit on that? So for example getting DS dressed in the morning, sometimes it's because he wants to do it, sometimes he just doesn't want it to be done. If asked why he'll not really answer or say he's watching Cbeebies. What would you do there?

I find that at this age I have been able to successfully reason with my DC. You can tell them the consequences that their actions will lead to and even be quite sophisticated about it. I use a two step process to get DS2 out of the house at school pick up time: (i) I try to appeal to him by saying 'but we don't want to be late for DD she'll be wondering where we are/waiting on her own/worried about us' and if that doesn't work then (ii) if you don't hurry you'll have to stay in the car as I'll be in to much of a rush to bring you in. It's not rocket science but it does work - you can reason with a two and a half year old .

ah but DS is quite happy for me to go without him / leave him in the car etc (not that I actually would) if he's in an awkward mood.

SPB- ah but is he really OK? Have you tested it to the point where you have your coat on and are shutting the door? Might be worth calling his bluff. I walk off from ds in the park, it's not nice but better than both of us getting cross.

Getting dressed; I have started offering multiple times. So before breakfast, after breakfast and then a bit later (only have one dc, can you tell??). Also I ask a lot 'why' doesn't he want to get dressed. And listen to the answer, and respond to it. Usually this combination works. It's not easy, it would probably just as easy to wrestle but 25% of the time he's OK with it.

If your ds wants to get dressed himself then I would tell him you're teaching him to get dressed and leave longer to get dressed in the morning.

Read "How to talk'....now we have both started 'doing it' it has made a difference.

Though I would like to now what to do when ds hits me, as he still does sometimes.