Experiences of late talkers please.

[scrummymum]

My DS will be 2 just after christmas. The only words he says on a regular basis are ta (when giving me something or wanting something), hiya and whatzat (when looking or pointing at something). He has come out with other words over the past few months (fish, christmas tree, mama, cat) but he says them loads for a day or two and then they seem to vanish and he doesn't say them again.

He can now do some animal noises (fish, lion, cat, pig) but if I ask him what a pig does, he doesn't always say the right one or anything but every time he sees peppa pig, he does it.

I do know quite a few people who have known children who haven't spoken until their 2nd/3rd year but they usually say that the child did understood most things.

My DS does understand some things (give grandma a kiss, twirl, clap hands, wheres your milk etc) but there is a lot he doesn't understand. I think he understands the word no but doesn't stop what he is doing, in fact he does the thing worse or laughs while he is doing it.

Apart from that he is a very happy sociable child, who loves spending time with people, and other children. He has good eye contact, doesn't mind a change to his routine and is quite happy to be left at nursery or with my parents (although occasionally he does have a clingy moment).

He did have a problem with his walking too but when that was followed up, it was found that he had hyperlaxity (double jointedness) and that was why. Sometimes, I'm not sure if he is slow to talk because it took him so long and so much effort to walk.

My DH had to have an operation on his ear tubes when he was younger and he is convinced that DS has something similar. DH was in a lot of pain and used to hit his head against the wall. DS bangs his head on his cot just before he goes to sleep.

In the summer we visited a speech therapy evaluation and they didn't show us that they had any concerns but said they will see him in 6 months which will be after the new year.

My mum just thinks he is slow but I am getting very worried.

My cousin's DS didn't talk until he was 5 yrs and then he spoke in whole sentences and hasn't stopped since! You are doing the right thing and going back to speech therapy.

HI there,

My DD is 2 next week and has far less sounds/words than your ds. She also seems to understand alot but not everything. Its sometimes hard to judge. We are starting speech therapy in jan. ( she has learnt some signs)

I totally empathise with your worrry. I feel exactly the same...

Interestingly my dd also has double jointedness which explains her difficulty with walking too....She also is very un co ordinated and clumsy

I also wondered if this could partly explain the late speech.
dd also has large adenoids which were removed in september. The ent dr felt that her hearing may not have been consistant whilst she was developing....

Anyway only time will tell. I am reassured by stories of late talkers but still cant help worrying!

My DS is 2.8 now and up to when he was 2.5 he only said three words. Now he says lots of words but he doens't pronounce them well and he doesn't say sentences, he'll put a couple of words together (yellow car, yes juice please, thank you, etc.) We have speech therapy assessments and everything was normal with his understanding and with his non-verbal communications. If I were you, I'd have a chat with GP and get refered to an audiologist or Ear Nose Throat specialist.

I know lots of people who know children who spoke late and started speaking in sentences, but really it's no help at all as many children don't. I mean they all end up speaking at one point, but most children will go through a standard development of babbling, understnading, making noises ie animal noises, saying a few words, putting two words together, making sentences. In my experience with DS, we are following this progress but very very slowly.

The best tips I can give you is to:

• speak in very short sentences (3 words)
• make sure you have his attention before speaking to him (go down at his level, clap your hands, get him to look at you)
• acknowledge any noises that he makes by imitating the noises, this can give him confidence
• listen to what he is saying even if they are not words (look at him in the eyes if he is trying to say something even if it's just babbling and pretend that you understand)
• have lots of games that encourage him to say something. One of DS favorite was to blow bubbles, say Ready... Steady... GO and try to get him to repeat the words, it took us months for him to say go but he did in the end. Other games are to play with cars and make lots of car sounds, beep beep crash vroom vroom etc. and try to get him to make the sounds when he is pushing his car,etc
• Try to get him to play with children that are a little bit older then him. Some children (including DS) will make a lot more sounds if he is playing with a 4 year old rather than playing with me!
• sing the same nursery rhyme to him many times a day, and then drop one word and see if he tries to fill in the blanks (row row row your boat is good for that, one of DS first words was row, and the other one was i-ey-e-ey-o as in old mcdonald)
• We also used to go to the swing park quite a lot and I used to put him on the swing and always say 5-4-3-2-1 BLAST OFF and he eventually said BLAST OFF and he can now count backwords

anyway, you look like you are level headed enough to understand that all children develop at their own rhythm but what you want to do first is to eliminate any other problems he might have, hence seeing an ENT specialist. Also, don't be afraid to ask your speech therapist about games that you can play with your DS.

By the way, your DS is much much more advanced than my DS was at that age... and I understand your worries.

Hmmm, it is a tricky one. My Ds is 2.3 and has very very limited vocab, although his understanding is fantastic.

We saw speech therapist a short while ago who said that he ticked all the boxes except he doesn't speak!! She also thinks (as we do) that he just doesn't need to yet. He is being seen again mid January. but she said it will be hard to get him into a group because most of the children she sees have other issues too, which my DS doesn't.

It is irritating though as he makes this awful back of the throat noise which drives me up the wall after hours and hours of it - he does not shut up! But when he was about 13 months he said "hello Grandma" which came out like "lo gm mar) on the phone to my Mum - yet he has never said it since. We have also heard him say Daddy once clear as a bell, yet not again. He uses no names at all and seems to stop using words like you say youself. definitely nothing wrong with his memory though that's for sure! I just think he can't be bothered until he says it correctly! If that makes sense? he will say a whole proper word or not at all, he doesn't TRY to say a word.

At this point I can't imagine my DS ever talking so you have my sympathies!

At this point I can't imagine my DS ever talking.

This definitely.

Thanks for all your replies. It does help to hear other peoples experiences. Most of my friends in RL have not gone through it but have heard of other children who have not talked til later so just say, he will do it when he is ready. Yes, they are probably right but at this moment that doesn't make me feel any better.

Thanks blueberry for the tips. I am doing some of those but there are a few more in there that are worth a try.

I do know that children develop at different rates. My DD was a quick talker, and as a child I was talking in full sentences when I was my DS's age but I wasn't worried until it got to 18 months and he only had 2 words which he had had for 4 months. And for me, the lack of understanding was bothering me too. He has definitely improved with the understanding a little.

With the lack of speech, understanding, walking late, head banging, I was worried about autism. I now don't think this as much (although I do have my moments when I am feeling down about it all). He is so sociable. I have just been to a friends house for a party. He has only ever met her so the house was full of strangers. He was buzzing about the place, smiling at people, twirling in the kitchen and showing off and then sat on a ladies knee for about 15 minutes who he hadn't met before. And he is so vocal. You could swear that he was telling you allsorts but was just speaking another language.

We are having a party for him for his birthday, the day after boxing day and a lot of his little friends have just turned 1 and most of them have more words than him. I know it is just going to make me start questioning his progress again.

Oh join the club - my son def speaks another language lol!

It does get you down, I know, we always joke that DS will be still making just these noises when he goes to school, but really it isn't funny.

As I said my DS's understanding is great - he knows colours and all body parts - just can't say them!!! But have you a decent professional you can have a chat with again about your concerns? What happened at the speech therapy thingy? Did they ask questions about his understanding then?

It could also just be a coincidence that he is slower in his understanding and just so happens that he doesn't talk yet!! He seems a happy chap from what you say does he get frustrated?

I'm not sure dd2 said anything at all when she was 2. She is 2.7 and is coming on in leaps and bounds. Though much of what she says is incomprehensible most of the time, she is adding new, understandable words everyday. Her most recent being kissmas and noman.

She didn't start talking at all untill about two months ago. Not even the usual babbling. It was the same with her walking. She showed no signs of trying, or getting ready to walk but when she was about 18 months old she just got up and walked one day.

scrummymum - I think you are absolutely right that your ds may have been having to concentrating very hard on his gross motor skills thus not 'working' on other areas of development. This is quite normal.

My ds, 2.4yrs, has cerebral palsy which appears to be just affecting his gross motor skills (tho is obv early days) he did'nt say a word until around the age of 2 and then only came out with the occasional clear word or half formed words. However, he was also receiving intense physio at this time and learning to use a walking frame.

Since he has become more adept at using his frame his speech has slowly improved and in the last 10 days he has started to say much more and put lots of words together 'I tired' or 'I do it/did it' I definitely believe that as it was/is so hard for him to walk he could only concentrate on that at that time.

Ds has been referred for SALT assessment, just waiting for appt and he had a hearing test on tues which was fine. I'd say see what SALT says at your next appt, keep doing all you are and try not to worry too much. That said I know its easy for me to say don't worry, especially if your other child was chatting away, my ds1 and ds2 were both talking in full sentences and conducting conversations when they were ds3 age so I am actually quite relieved to have not reached the dreaded 'why' stage yet

It's difficult to answer postings like this as it can seem the wrong thing to do to even hint about autism but since the OP mentioned worries about autism, I'm posting this - it's for general advice not really to OP

Autism in a young child is not specifically diagnosed by looking at issues like sociability, head banging or routines (although these may be secondary issues). Failures in developing joint attention and failures in developing communication skills (non verbal as well as verbal) are the main areas of concern. Have you heard of the CHAT test ? www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=2226&d=1419 it's not infalliable but the questions it asks can give a good idea of what someone thinking about autism in a young child would be looking for. The test is for 18 months old - many autistic children do achieve some of the skills although usually at a much later age. I hope all goes well for everyone - time changes a lot of things for all children.

I had an appointment with a specialist who never really discussed the lack of understanding after we mentioned it and the same happened at the speech appointment. The lady there just asked me questions and observed DS playing. He was 18 months at the time so maybe this was all they could do at that stage. When we go in the new year I will obviously go further into everything.

DS does do the joint attention thing. He will sit at look at a book with me, try to do jigsaws with me and today me, DS and DD played passing the ball from one person to the next. I thought he would just get the ball and then pinch it but he got the concept of passing it and we played for quite a while.

His understanding does seem to be getting better. Today he has started sitting down when I pick up his shoes so I can put them on for him.

Just another positive story for you to bear in mind.

DD2 started nursery in September on her 3rd birthday.

Her speech was VERY limited for her age, probably about a dozen words - if that.

I discussed with my health visitor and she agreed she just didnt want to talk just yet - she has 2 older siblings who talk for her and very much enjoys being the "baby". We agreed to wait 6 months before seeing a speech therapist to see if nursery helped.

Since she started nursery she has come along leaps and bounds. Although she still doesnt do full sentences she can do 3 or 4 words together and really tries to say words when she wants to communicate whereas before it was all just done by her own sign language if she couldnt say the words she needed.

I suppose in nursery she HAS to try and communicate because unlike her siblings the children there wouldnt understand her "signs".

I take it your gp has checked her hearing and other obvious things. If not, I would make an appointment just to put your mind at ease if nothing else.

Scrummymum, you sound like you're completely on the right track in that you're doing what you can.

Has anyone mentioned dyspraxia? It's difficulty with organising intent and execution, and often goes with clumsiness. It can also look very similar to autism or ADHD, according to the child and the circumstances. While it's not necessarily what's happening here, it could be worth giving some thought to the management strategies that have been developed for dyspraxia, as they might help a bit.

Best of luck.

The joint attention sounds great - I think you should focus on getting him to share even more with you rather than getting stressed about words- if he's able to point and follow a point and to get interested in what you are interested in, it doesn't sound like autism.

Ds1 wasn't talking at age 2, and didn't seem to understand much either. I didn't realise at the time but I have ds2 now, who was 2 last week, and I am constantly amazed by how much he understands. But I don't think ds2 is particularly fast, I think ds1 was slow. Maybe I shouldn't compare ...

When ds1 was nearly 3 I went into hospital for 3 months and that actually helped his speech - I think he had to put effort into making himself understood by the friends/relatives who were looking after him! But he still wasn't doing sentences.

Anyhow he is nearly 5 now and his speech is about average amongst his class at school as far as I can see - better than some, worse than some. Same goes for understanding (well, selective deafness is a problem ). But he can say pretty much all the sounds, is learning to read, cracking jokes.

He had very waxy/gunky ears when he was small and I wonder if that affected things. Or whether it is personality - he won't try to do anything unless he thinks he will succeed.

Is it worth taking your ds to the gp, explaining family history and asking about his ears?

The speech therapist can refer for a hearing test when you see them if you are worried could be glue ear. Its doesn't have to be autism for you to get speech therapy - I'd push to go on the waiting list and then pull out if things improve. You might want to look at the Hanen book It Takes Two to Talk which has ideas for speech delay. There are also some ideas on teachmetotalk.com You can test out understanding by asking him to get you things etc make sure he's not following visual clues eg he could be sitting down because he sees the shoes but try asking him to sit down / put shoes on when shoes are not in sight. Afasic website has lots of info about various speech problems - have you thought about dyspraxia? That can come with motor problems.

my son has autism but my nephew had a speech delay and did not have any obvious cause - but he got weekly play therapy and speech therapy from age 2-2.5 (he's in USA) and he's pretty much caught up now. Alot of people tell you to just wait and see but I think its better to help things along if you can.

My son is four now, just turned four in NOvember.

I was just remembering last christmas when he was 3 and one month. He could say NOTHING> At about 3 and 4 months he suddenly just opened his mouth and it all came tumbling out. The rate of dramatic improvement has been so exponential, even more so than with a child who develops at a normal pace i think.

8 months ago my son said almost nothing, now he wanders round chatting to himself, saying, there we go, job done. he makes me laugh because he comes out with whole phrases i didn't know he knew. like, actually that's not what i meant. his speech isn't as clear as another four year olds, but i can always understand him.

hope that gives you some hope!

Your ds sounds like he is developing some good skills. You haven't mentioned if he points/waves 'bye bye' or not - these are key steps in the development of communication and usually emerge when a child is pre-verbal.

Yes he does point loads while saying whatzat and when we are leaving somewhere he blows kisses, waves and says hiya!?!

fruitful I am definitely going to mention the ears when we go in the new year. Now I think about it, he does have very waxy ears. I always say that it is weird as I didn't have to clean DD's ears much at all but I do his all the time.

He seems to be having a little understanding spurt at the mo. He has started doing a cat noise (which I thought would be first as we have 2) and today he went and pointed at the cat flap, bent down to look through and said something that sounded like "there".

I suppose it is all wait and see but it is just sooooo hard sometimes.

Thanks again for all your suggestions. Going to have a look for the website and book now.

He sounds as though he has some good skills!

Like OP My Ds only ever said about half a dozen words until aged 2yrs 9 months
His fave word being 'Wazzat?'
Was very frustrating as I knew he understood everything i said
Then one day he pointed at my necklace, 'Wazzat?'
me ' its a necklace'
Him ' That necklace is horrible'
I kid you not, I nearly keeled over, after that he spoke with a wide vocabulary and has never been quiet since.

He is now behind with his reading at school but i ma confient he will catch up there too!

Me too in the same boat. My DS is 2.3 years with little vocabulary. I saw speech therapist when he was 2.1 and she gave me some tips to work on and he has improved a lot in last 2 months. He spoke hardly 10 words in oct and now I think he has around 25-30 clear words. He talks a lot but in his own language. I am a working mom ,so was not able to give much time to him. But now I made a habit to give atleast 1hr to him just to teach things. And I will say that things have improved since I started sitting with him and teaching words,letters and numbers.
So don't worry and continue doing what you are doing and things will surely improve. One more thing I like to add that as my son had constant cold and cough, I saw ENT specialist recently and he was diaganosed with large adenoids which were producing fluids and getting accumalated in his ear. Thats why his hearing was bit effected and so the speech. He is on medication and will see consultant again in 3 months. So get it checked for your son as well. May be its a reason.

My son is also 2.3 and saw salt at 2.1 but not much improvement. His ears are fine his understanding is amazing, but he won't bloody talk!!! SALT said he just doesn't need to or want to!! Never shuts up though at all, just gobbledy gook from the back of his throat. Sounds like "ah ccn" CONSTANTLY

2 very late talkers here, both late understanders too. I've lived the last 18 months of my life on the special needs board but both are doing great.

You sound as though you've already rolled up your sleeves, and when it comes to problems with understanding, that is what you need to do.

Good luck, I strongly recommend buying "It Takes Two to Talk". It's expensive but worth every penny, as it's completely non-scary, jargon-free, etc but incredibly well-written. Even if you find you are already following the correct techniques, you can use it to help your DP if you have one.

Check out the ears though - that does sound a likely cause doesn't it?

of my 7 children 6 have been late talkers as was there dad or rather they talk but not always clear tending to leave off word eendings hap for hat etc but have all had good understanding . they are all now good talkers sometimes you wish you could get a word in edgeways with no problems with no academic problems . number 1 i worried sick about especially when she started school although her speech had improved she still had some issues first school very unhelpful implied she was remedial and refused see her for what she was a bright child with speech problems she now just done 0 levels and got as and i wonder what i worried about .ds2 also had dyspraxia which affected huis ability to make speech sounds with dc7 now just 3 with delayed speech but making regular progress and im not overly concerned having been through it before he does attend salt . children do things when there ready and lack of speech is not a sign of lack of intelligence or poor parenting etc . my greatest reassurance was knowing that einstein didnt speak till he was 5.so get all the salt you can but dont worry too much

Hey I know this is really old but I wondered what the outcome was for your child maxybrown as my son is identical with great understanding and social skills but only making vowel sounds and back of throat sounds at 13 months....