My 3.5yo dd (middle child) drives me up the wall

[thatsnotmymonster]

and I am so fed up of it.

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat or has a similar child.

Basically she is quite highly strung, stubborn and emotionally immature. She still screams a lot and will have a tantrum at the smallest thing without telling me what the problem is (last week it was 20mins of screaming because she wanted the bath hot- I had put dd2 in and pulled her out again as it was slightly too hot and I needed to add cold but she didn't communicate this to me until after the tantrum)

She is accident prone and also tiny and clumsy so she is constantly getting hurt. She constantly fiddles, plays, touches stuff she should not be touching and as a result she is always breaking things, messing things up or hurting herself. She broke the freezer door handle yesterday and she is always catching her toes under doors

She is also very mischievious and will do things to deliberately annoy other people.

It just drives me insane. She is always being told off as a result of all this- much more than her brother and sister and I'm worried that she feels like she's the different one. Thing is now it doesn't take much for me to lose it at her because it is so constant.

Just having a general moan about but it would be nice to hear if anyone is expriencing something similar or even better if they have had a child like this who is older and much better now??

Reading that back it does sound as if she is awful- she isn't, she can be very sweet, caring and helpful (tries to mother everyone) but it often goes wrong because she likes to be in charge/is so independant and so stubborn! or she hurts herself!

Not sure I have experienced everything you are currently going through but certainly some of it.

Third child for me (out of 4) and a boy - could absolutely not be left alone for 10 seconds as he would interfere with ANYTHING. Other 3 never touched anything more than once. He fathomed out cupboard locks on cupboards and emptied them frequently (and at great speed) and the nappy changing bag was a firm favourite - he would often appear covered in sudocrem. A firm no just resulted in a big bottom lip tremble and a (quiet) sulk but didn't stop him second time around )or 3rd, 4th or 5th). He was like this from the minute he could move. He didn't throw tantrums but he did take great delight in winding up his 3 siblings. Oh and he was clumsy too. On top of this he was up at 6am without fail, unlike the rest of us who are sleepyheads. He completely wore me out.

However, after what seemed like years of hard work and consistent no's on part of parents (and elder siblings), he one day miraculously grew up. It must have been gradually actually because I can't remember when it got better. School and pre-school certainly helped. He is now 13 (nearly 14) and remembers, with great humour, being an interfering pest. He is still a wind up merchant and does still investigate everything with his hands but not to the same level of destruction (although there is still a degree). He is still clumsy (broke 3 plates last week whilst drying the dishes), and can still fall down the stairs but we have got used to it and, as he never hurts himself, we wonder if it is part of the wind up!

From a point of view of how to cope, we ignored as much bad behaviour as possible, made as little of the stuff we couldn't ignore, (No, removal and then ignore - naughty step was great) and made sure there were lots of things for little hands to fiddle with. This is a way of learning for some people! We also moved anything precious out of reach as far as possible, even though we didn't have to for the other 3.

Lastly, he is the cuddliest of my children and always wants a hug (yes even at 13). I have always been a huggy mummy so perhaps with these tactile children this helps? I don't know but worth a try!

Best of luck :-)

Thanks RocketSalad- your post was great and sounds like a lot of similarities! I think what gets me down a bit is that she can be quite resistant to cuddles and praise at times.

We do use the naughty step but as you say, nothing seems to stop it from happening again, and again, and again...

She is so stubborn that the normal threats don't work with her- if I threaten to put a toy in the bin if she doesn't help tidy up she will say fine- even say, 'Mummy, put my toys in the bin because I don't want to tidy up.' I have put all her dolls in a bin bag before (her favourite toys) and put them away and she didn't ask for them back and eventually I just gave them back. She has never helped to tidy up properly.

I try to ignore as much as possible but she is so stubborn she will cry for ages and ages.

Pre-school has definitely helped. I just can't imagine she will ever be any 'easier'

hi, I totally understand your frustrations. Your post was like reading about my own dd! She is also 3.5 yrs and driving me up the wall! I don't know if it's just for attention or she just can't help herself. I recently had a ds who is 11 weeks now but he is such a good baby, he doesn't take all my attention away from her and she hasn't shown any jealousy either. She also mother's the children at pre school and tells them how to behave but completely forgets all about that when it's her own behaviour. Am really hoping that by the time she starts school that she'll have settle down a bit. She is also very clumsy, bossy, head strong and my god is she loud! She has no concept of volume control and actually make mine and my husbands ears hurt - wish she had an off button! Feel us all down as that's not what any of us want. No punishments seem to make any difference or discourage her from doing the same things over and over...

part of post disappeared then.. meant to say that i feel like all i do is tell her off all the time which isn't working and just gets us all down..

SNAP sk8scott- I forgot that bit about dd, she is ALSO incredibly loud and the pitch of her voice really hurts my ears and she will just keep screeching the same thing while I am trying to make luch- like 'I want ham sandwiches' over and over despite me saying 'I know you want ham sandwiches and that is not how to ask me for them' over and over...

It is so hard. I feel like both dh and I are really hard on her but nothing works and then I end up freaking out at her cos she tests me to my limit.

Oh you've described my dd1!! Just feeling rather wrung out after another tantrum-y bedtime, with dd2 17 mths joining in...
Snap to the stubborness, drama, clumsiness (!!), repeating things at TOP volume,bossy / mothering other children, constant fiddling and not caring....I too feel like I am constantly on at her and blow my top far too often
She is also gorgeous, funny, very articulate and sensitive...and an angel for pretty much everyone else in the world - very few have seen this side of her and even close 'mummy' friends say they don't believe me.
I thought it was just me....!
oh and I work with children with emotional and behavioural problems too

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I have a DS like this. He's DS2 and 3.5 yrs old. He is a nightmare at times, and yet at others, the loveliest child in the world. Yesterday morning for example he woke at 5.10am. Screaming that he wanted a gingerbread man. We'd been going to buy some at the supermarket, but he changed his mind and chose toy rings instead, so we didn't get any. I think he was dreaming about them. This went on for about half an hour. Gave him a warning I'd leave him (was in his bed with him). I then shut him in his room and went to sleep in the spare room for a bit. Opened door, and the screaming contintued for another half hour over gingerbread man. Then moved onto wanting to go downstairs. I was really tired, so tried to get him to watch a DVD. No joy. Cue screaming for half hour and kicking me and pulling me to go downstairs. Another warning. Left him in spare room for a bit. Got to 7am, and I decided I'd get up. He normally wakes at 8am or later. Then tantrum moved onto to something else entirely and continued until at pre-school, where apparently he was an angel all day.

I thank god most days he goes to pre-school for 6 hours a day. I don't think I could handle him for many more hours. DH has been away for 5 months, so I've been his sole carer for the whole time.

Every night I make a point of cuddling him and kissing him when he's asleep to remind myself that he is lovely, and not a complete monster.

I must have gone badly wrong with him somewhere along the line. DS1 is fine by comparison, but gets the short end of my temper, which has invariably been frayed by DS2, and we give into DS2 for an easy life far too often.

I'm sorry, I have no answers for you, but complete sympathy. The only thing which currently works for us is counting to 3. If this doesn't work (and I seldom get to three if I can help it), then he gets the naughty step. Which for him means being shut in the hallway as he won't stay on the step. I think he's the main reason there will never be a DC3 in our house. I couldn't face another like him!

My dd2 is the middle child as well and was very much like you describe at that age, and it drove me insane. she is now six and has changed so much, hang in there! I blame a lot of it on the dreaded middle child syndrome.

Thanks for posting that Christiana, I feel all inspired. My DS is three and a half and incredibly willfull. And loving, funny and gorgeous. But so, so, so stuborn. He has a thing about saying thank you, he has on more than one occasion chosen not to have chocolate rather than give in and say it. We have also tried the taking away a toy punishment for naughtiness with no success at all, he doesn't care enough about any toy to give in when he has really dug his heels in. Excpet for his precious dog but on the rare occasions i have taken it when i have been unbearably angry with him he has been so heartbroken that i just give it back which is not good for anyone! Ignoring him has never worked because he can hold on to an issue forever, hours and hours later he will be saying the same thing. He has even been known to fall asleep mid strop and wake up hours later to pick up exactly where he left off. Think being at pre school is helping as it is forcing him to be more flexible and he loves it and they never have any issues with his behvaiour. He is fantastic company but good god, he is very hard work.

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thatsnotmymonster you have described my DD (3) too! I do the count to 10 thing too and naughty step which seems to be working more now she's getting a bit older. She is also lovely and very sweet and has a huge personality. Me and my friends think it is something to do with being the second child as theirs are exactly the same

Wow so many 3yos, so much trouble

I often think of this

There was a little girl
Who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead
And when she was good
She was very, very good
And when she was bad, she was horrid!

Sums up my dd1 to a T.

She is unbelievably cute and equally impossible

I have learnt not to say 'if you do that again/carry on whining/generally embarassing me with your appaling behvaiour' we will be going home when at play group or someones house etc as every time he instantly makes a beeline for the door to make sure he gets in there first. Recently at playgroup when this happened i had to frantically throw DD in the pram and chase him down the street as he was off. I am deffinately going to give the coloured cards system a go.

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TNMM I feel your pain. My 4th child (ds3) is nearly 6 and like your dd in many ways. It's getting better slowly but I still find him very difficult at times. he's very stubborn and I don't think he's emotionally very mature. We still get raging tantrums and the like. sometimes I think I'm a bit of a failure in that when he was a toddler I was able to spend a lot of time with him while his siblings were at school - and sometimes I'd think I was doing him no good at all.

What helps for me is VERY firm boundaries, and once he calms down after a meltdown we discuss why he gets upset in the hope a little of it will sink in before the next time...I also follow through with repercussions (eg withdrawing a treat or privilege) if his poor behaviour persists.

On the upside, school has helped enormously. He is actually very popular and has lots of friends. he is affectionate and cuddly, and i love his enthusiasm for life.

Wishing you luck...

It does really help knowing that this is obviously a 'normal' part of development/behaviour for some children.

I might try the colour cards thing too.

Onestep- I have been trying to discuss her behaviour with her too but she just doesn't seem to understand what we are talking about. I don't think she understands emotions very well. If she has been in trouble over something we will explain why to her and ask her not to do x again, we then say, 'Do you understand?' and she always says, 'No'! I still haven't worked out whether this is her being stubborn or whether she genuinely doesn't get it.

DS who is 4 going on 10! has always been so articulate and easy to rationalise with. He is responsible and seems to understand everything. In comparison, dd1 is a mystery to me.

The other thing is that I don't feel my bond with her is as strong as with the other 2 but I'm not sure how I can get round that- will it just take longer because it is more difficult to understand her?

TNMM maybe 3.5 is just a little young still for discussions about behaviour, notwithstanding that your ds was/is different. For some children it's a tricky age. Not babies any more but not as mature as school children. ds2 went through a tantrummy spell too for about 6 months at that age though generally was/is much easier.

I remember my ds3 getting a bit easier once he turned 4; maybe your dd will be similar ! But we still, as I say, have tricky times. Big meltdown over something small yesterday for example. i do the discussions soon after the bad behaviour, but not straight away in case he's still overwrought. Try waiting a bit longer before rationalising with your dd ?

Yes I think I will have too!!

She was so cute tonight- she fell asleep on my knee watching the polar express and I have just carried her to bed sleeping- that's not happened since she was a baby, so sweet.