Practical help required please with arguementative 8 year old

[Sonnet]

DD2 has a short fuse and kicks off with little provication. She shouts and is very "in your face". She is getting worse and has little or no respect for DH and I.

i accept we have caused this but I would welcome some practical suggestions of how to deal with this

Last night she blew a fuse about something tivial ( I cannot even remember what!). I remained calm, told her "not to speak to me like that" and ignored her. She followed me, jabbing at me with a pencil, screaming and carrying on. I calmly ordered her to her room until she had calmed down.
She refused to go, started lashin out. I had to physically take her to her room, she refused to stay. To cut a long story short this carried on for over an hour, Dh was involved and lost his temper, supper was late, My other DD was distraught, and no homework was done by DD2....the whole evening was a write off!.

How do I handle this - what would you have done? what am I doing that is so wrong.

anyone?

or am I the only one who has this issue?

If anyone else has - how have you solved it?
Pleeese.....

Sunday eve was dreadful too....

sorry i don't have any advice for you but hopefully someone will come along soon
my ds is 10 & he is very like your dd , he kicks off if he does not get his own way sometimes & like you i send him to his room until we have all calmed down but then he comes back down sulking & back talking us until it all kicks off again . dh reckons I'm too soft .

I am no expert but have three dc so perhaps can offer some advice!!! It seems to me that the fact you recognise that you have caused the problem is the key. You know she is being disrespectful and you need to change that. We went through a similar thing with ds early this year. (Not the physical side) but her was talking to me as if I was worthless. I suddenly woke up to the fact that this was not on. Sat him down explained the boundaries, gave him some rules and then was completely consistent in implementing them. He is lovely now!!!!!

Is she just short of fuse with you and dh or is she like it at school?

Thanks both for responding.

She is not like this at school - just home.

The worrying thing is that, whilst I know it would only make matters worse in the long run, part of me wished I'd just let her get away with her rudeness to me and jabbing me with a pencil. At least then it would not have gone on all night.

I have tried to talk to her and explain her behaviour is just not on but it dosn't seem to register.

I need to find a punishment that works - that has some effect on her.

Ignoring her and sending her to her room does work well - but how do I get her up 2 flights of stairs if she refuses to go?. She also never stays in her room so it ends up a big game of taking her back up and all the time whils I am trying to cook supper, help DD1 etc

shopalot do you mind me asking how you turned things around with your ds , we are blue in the face telling ds off for being disrespectful to me more than dh (he knows dh wont put up with it) this morning is an example of my ds

me in car at school drop off = ds hand over your mobile ph please i will mind it until home time .
ds = i dont have it with me
me= ds i saw you earlier in the car so hand it over
ds= are you deaf or stupid or something i said i dont have it .
me= right out of the car & show me your pockets .
ds = hands over the phone with a huge smirk on his face .
me= dont you dare speak to me like , now go into school .

should i punish him for this or just let it go ?

i'd like to know that too....

sorry sonnet didn't mean to hijack
i know how you feel tbh it can be exhausting sometimes , i find i pick my battles with ds iykwim , he never hits me but does put his fist up to me which really upsets me . he is an angel at school .
dh always lectures him on being respectful & never raising a hand to women especially your mum etc , but ds doesn't listen .

Had just typed a long post then laptop spontaneously went into update mode.

I am no expert but I do have a 7 year-old DS who has morphed seamlessly from a tantrumming (and then some) toddler into a rude, stroppy hormonal teen.

Last weekend he was unbelievably rude to both DH and I so he has lost his nintendo ds and all access to computer games until Christmas.

There must be something your DD cares about. DS also has in his room all his Lego Power Miners sets made up and on display. I have only had to remove them once for him to know that I will do it again if need be.

She must have a similar chink in her armour? I know it sounds harsh but I firmly believe that for some children the usual 'firm talking to' and 'time out' consequences are really ineffective. You have to find their Achilles' heel.

Some kids are just explosive - 4 us it's ds2 (5yo). The Americans write whole books on how 2 parent kids labeled thus.

I had a moment of clarity today realising that 90% of DS's strops R sibling-rivalry related. Does that sound familiar?

biggirlsdontcry - I would perhaps pick battles more. It's his phone, he takes responsibility for it. If a teacher confiscates it, that's for him to deal with. If he takes it to school (against your wishes) and another kids breaks/steals it, that's his lookout and he doesn't get another unless he saves up.

I think where you can avoid a lock-horns scenario, why not avoid it!

With the rudeness I think she does need the law laying down. Choose a calm time when she's well fed and not tired and go over the house rules. PErhaps make it a family meeting, rules for everybody, so she doesn't feel singled out at this stage (even though she SHOULD be singled out etc! Kids are easily put on the defensive and it's worth avoiding that imo). Plan together what the consequences of rudness should be - get your DDs to come up with ideas.

And finally always make sure that you are genuinely polite to them, and that you and DH and polite and respectful to eachother. They need role models as well as rules. IMHO.

You are not hijacking biggirlsdont cry - the more input the better

Hmm - finding her achilles heel - I have found out that the punishment has to be immediate for it to register. The only thing that has an effect is her going to bed "10 mins" earlier BUT she needs her sleep therefore goes to bed anyway at 7.30. She is pushed as it is to get all done and free time and in bed on time anyway so it quite often slips past the 7.30 mark. Therefore in reality often the punishment dosn't work.

I am also a wimp....and if all has settled down after the kick off I am loathe to bring it all up again by sending her up to bed earlier than normal

She shouts at me because I shout at her . I know that. I know I need to stop.

After her outburst last night she came to me and told me she had been upset at school with some friend issues and that was why she was angry.
just don't know what to do - am fed up of the anger and shouting. I feel so frustrated that I cannot control this situation. I read other threads with the comments " I wouldn't let my children talk to me like that" "Nip it in the bud now!" etc...but I just don't know how.

Thank-you cirrhosis by the sea - I will re-visit that one. I have done it before and she nods and agrees and quite happily tells me her worst punishments! it just dosn't seem to last...

Dh and I under stress with his business and loss of a BIG contract, plus I am under stress at my work, managing kids, house etc - we do snap at each other- not proud about that

We have planned a day out on Sunday to spend time as a family to try and build some bridges - just worried DD2 will kick off.

I have an occasionally rude 8 yr old dd. You have my sympathy.

Sounds like she could be feeling the stress that is in your family too, and reacting to it, knowing you are probably feeling stressed too?

I have found sometimes that validating their feelings can be helpful.

Saying: "I can see you're upset. What's the matter?" in a kind tone can take the wind right out of their sails.

DD was going into one the other day refusing to take some medicine. My patience was at utter zero by then, and DH said "She's frightened," which made me . He then sat her down and said "I can see you're frightened DD, but..." and bugger me if she didn't drink it!

I often try the lie line "This isn't like you. Whatever's the matter? You're not normally this rude, are you OK?"

It is hard to be sympathetic when the only thing that seems to be the matter is that they are being a total arseache.

Good advice Balloon.

I particularly like the use of the word arseache.

Hi, sorry not to have replied. I have an ill dd who is being ever so demanding!! We managed to turn ds1 around by picking our battles. I chose two or three things that I found unacceptable at the time and tackled them for a week or so. When I cracked those I moved on to the other battles but remained consistent with the previous things. Am I making any sense?? I felt that I couldn't battle on everything all in one go. My dh was very supportive so that helped loads. To be honest it is all about having respect for yourselves which in turn means that you will not accept being spoken to in a certain way. Like you we had troubles at home (my brother died) and I am sure it was a reaction to the circumstance around you. But at the end of the day she has to know who is the boss.

I completely agree that you have to find the thing that upsets your dd most. Bedtimes is a hard one to enforce. No mobile might be an idea. (can't believe she has a mobile at 8 - hasn't occured to my ds8 to ask for one thank goodness!!)

Opps just re-read and realise it is your ds with the phone. My brain is being frazzled by staying in with ill child and watching cartoons....

Thanks all - am at work so have only scanned these replies quickly!

Great advice Balloonslayer and Shopalot - given me lots to think about

think you are right Momi - she is picking up on the stress - although she has always been like that just got worse