Does anyone else's child do this - how should I deal with it?

[Tillysmummy]

DD is going through what I hope is a phase at the moment. She is a very sweet and loving child but is very determined and strong willed. When we play with other children she goes up to them sometimes if they are in her way or something and puts her hands right up to them as if to push and then starts shaking. I know this sounds really weird and it is. She pulls the oddest face. I don't really know how to deal with her when she does this. She's not actually pushing but I get very cross and upset with her for doing it because she obviously is doing it because she's irritated with the other child. She's 20 months and has a very good vocabulary and understanding so I generally tell her off and tell her she won't come to play with people again if she behaves like this. I then ask her to apologise to the other child which she then does. But a few minutes later she will do it again.
She also yesterday went as if to kick the other child and I shouted at her and she stopped.

I am sure it is normal but I am not sure how to deal with it best. I want her to know it's not acceptable behaviour to do this. Does anyone have any good suggestions as to how I can deal with it and can anyone reassure me that it is normal.

I can't always go for the time out option because sometimes there's nowhere for her to go if we are out and about.

Thought I'd bring this to the top in the hope that some kind soul will reply. Really don't know the best way to deal with it.

You don't think that just ignoring it for now would be the best thing? Afterall, although it is a little bizarre (toddlers often are) she is not actually doing anything wrong and if you draw attention to it, you may just make her doing something even less acceptable. If it is really bothering the other children, then perhaps call her away.

I'm not going to help you at all I'm sorry. My son is going through a hitting phase at the moment. He's 16 months. If I tell him to stop something and he doesn't want to he comes over and smacks me, if I tell him I'm going to give him a smack he comes over and smacks me, if he gets frustrated with something he is trying to do he comes over and smacks me, if the childminder is telling one of the children off he goes over and smacks the little girl she has there as if it is her fault someone is being told off. I don't know what to do either.

I tell him not to smack and have just started putting him in his cot when he does it repeatedly after being told not to. I obviously tell him he will go in his cot if he continues which he does and when I put him in there we have the automatic water works so I only leave the room and go back in after about 30 seconds but that seems to work. I assume it is a form of time out that I am using and I try not to use it all the time.

We were at a friends the other day with little kids and he decided to smack the other little boy which I told him not to do so he kept doing it and then I went and put him on their couch. The waterworks started again and even though he got off the couch and came out still crying when I picked him up and asked if he was going to do it again he stopped and the smacking stopped.

I can only hope it is a phase for ds too. He doesn't really speak yet and I am putting a lot down to frustration so don't use it all the time. My ds is also very determined and strong willed and his strength can rival that of a 4 year olds as proven on more than one occasion. Even me as a 34 year old too I might add.

So, I'm sorry I'm not offering you any advice or able to say it is definitley a phase just wanted you to know that I am in the same boat and hoping it is a phase.

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I don't really understand what you mean by "she starts shaking"? Do you mean that your dd's body starts shaking, or does she shakes her hands at the other child, or does she actually shake the other child?

Thanks for your replies. Bugsy I did think about ignoring it but I dont want her to think it's acceptable behaviour when its not and I know that she's angry with the other children and that's why she's doing it.
Mammya, she does this weird thing where she is physically shaking herself, her teeth are gritted and she's got her hands ready to push the other child but actually does nothing, just may be touching them and shaking with what I can only assume is anger.
Meanmum, Im sorry you're in the same boat. It's so hard to know how to deal with it isn't it ? I can't excuse her for not being able to understand because she speaks fluently and I can have a mini conversation with her so she definitely understands what im saying just don't know if she knows why she mustn't do it. I hope she grows out of it.

Let me know if you come up with any brilliant ideas of how to deal with this. Forgot to say my ds also grits his teeth like your dd, unfortunately he seems to take it one step further and hits out. At least she isn't actually hitting others and is managing in some way to control her anger/frustration.

I'm not sure that this is right - but I get the feeling that DD is getting very annoyed with whoever she is "shaking" in front of/at.
She obviously IMO wants to give them a good old bash - but you have obviously instilled in her that this is the wrong thing to do. I am betting that this shaking is the next best thing without getting into trouble for hurting the other child.
You say that she has a very good vocab and understanding - have a chat to her and see what her take is on it.
I would think that the "strange expression" is frustration.
She sounds like a very obedient and well brought up child - knowing that it's wrong to hurt - but as yet unable to communicate to the other child/ren her irritation
HTH

ooops ! In my ramble I forgot to say - perhaps try congratulating her in not hurting the other child and that you know sometimes it can be annoying ???

Tillymummy, in your shoes, I really wouldn't tell my child off for this. On the contrary, I think she sounds a very smart child. IMO she can't help being angry & frustrated any more than we can in an annoying situation and I think she's showing amazing self control for a child so young in NOT hitting/pushing etc - it is clearly a strain on her not to give into her impulses which at that age are very strong and extremely difficult to resist (the impulse control part of the brain isn't actually well developed in a child of that age, so she's fighting nature!). I think she's actually doing something good and difficult and I would actually be inclined to either ignore it as it is harmless, or even to praise her for her self-control ("I can see you are annoyed with X but you aren't hitting or pushing her, well done.". Does it bother the other children? I bet it doesn't- they seem blissfully aware of other children at that age, don't they? My ds was nearly kicked in the head by a boy at nursery just for being near the slide he wanted to go on, I was a bit startled, but ds didn't even notice and certainly wasn't bothered. I very much agree that children shouldn't be allowed to hurt other children but I also feel strongly that they should be allowed to have and express their feelings in non-harmful ways and it sounds to me as if your very clever and advanced daughter has found just such a way that works for her. I'd be quite proud - honest!

Crystaltips, I posted before seeing your post - I could have just written 'I agree with Crystaltips' instead! I also think it is sheer frustration that is making her shake like that. IMO it is NOT wrong or bad to feel anger (we all do, it's normal and natural) what is bad is hitting or hurting in anger and she doesn't do that. What a lovely girl!

I agree with aloha and crystaltips, she sounds as though she;s having a right old tussle with herself about bashing the other child - wants to, but knows its wrong! Definitely the shaking is frustration - if she grits her teeth and sort of grimaces while shes doing it then my dd1 used to do exactly the same thing but when she got over-excited!

Well you've certainly put a different perspective on it for me. I think you are very right. She is maybe restraining herself and being good. It's difficult though because the other children do seem a bit bewildered / scared when she does it and the other mums ask me what she's doing. Mostly they just laugh it off so maybe im being paranoid about it.

What about if she goes to actually push or kick, should I tell her off then ?

I personally would try not to worry what other mums think. Sometimes I think the biggest barrier to enjoying our children is worrying what other people think - I'm certainly not immune. I have found myself saying loudly, "No! Don't do that' when actually he's not doing anything wrong, I'm just trying to reassure others he won't do anyting in the future,and I'm sure it confuses him a bit. If they do ask you what she's doing you could maybe say that she is very good because she she gets annoyed like anyone else but is trying very hard to control herself. If I genuinely believed my ds was about to, say, shove another child then I take him away from the situation/child and distract him so it didn't happen. If he succeeded, then I would say "no, we don't push", point out briefly that the other child was upset (if they were), apologise to the other mother and distract again. I think when they are older you can do more explaining/telling off but 20months is very young IMO (my ds is 20months) and distraction works best, certainly for my ds. I managed to stop him biting recently (mostly me) by anticipating it, distracting and ignoring. It did work! Mind you, my ds finds my cross reaction funny and fascinating so it tends to backfire a bit. In my defence, in case you think I'm raising a barely controlled fiend, he really is a very gentle child and quite well behaved.

Accentuate the positive - praise her for not being naughty - she knows that she must not hit and so far is doing jolly well. Then she will know that you are pleased with her restraint - but do acknowledge it - is it's obviously hard for her at the moment.
If she does have a slip up accept that these things happen - give her a big cuddle and agree that life is hard sometimes. I would only get cross with her if bad behaviour becomes a pattern.
I give her the big thumbs up !!!

You've both made me feel really proud of her and mean for telling her off before. She is generally a very good girl and always gives me and other so much affection. She does get very frustrated as well when other toddlers don't understand her.I need to start another thread now about her eczema!

My ds1 27 months does the angry face and rolls his eyes - looks like something out of a B movie horror film - most amusing - dh and I have to force ourselves not to laugh! He also hits himself and others if we say No to him about anything - mostly it is himself he hits - which again is quite amusing but we do not show that in front of him. It is just pure frustration in a world they want to control and they do not like it when something/one gets in their way. I say try to ignore it if there is no actual harm to anyone else or remove the child from the situation if poss. i know how embarassing it is with other mums especially when their children are always angels but in my experience most of them have their testing times too and will understand the behaviour of your child (unless they drug theirs of course!) and you are seen to be attempting to stop them.

Good luck - I'm sure it will pass!

My daughter does exactley the same and my friend also suggested that it could just be frustration - she is really smart (too smart sometimes I think) and I have told her that she must not be violent towards others or call them silly or stupid (which she did start doing) - now she just grits her teeth and shakes - I suppose it is like when we count to 10! I think your daughter must just be very bright and aware that hitting or pushing others is wrong. (Same as what everyone else said really!!)

The best way I have found of punishing her is to make her sit on the stairs for 3 minutes - which to a 2 year old feels like forever. Now the very mention of the 'S' word and she behaves instantly. Is quite good as most places we go tend to have stairs.

.I agree with what everyone else says and have to say that she sounds a remarkably mature child for her young age.Maybe you could find out, at some stage, what the different situations are that anger her and then work with her on some verbal expressions of her feelings in different circumstances?