Five month old sleeping hell

[lindsaygii]

No, honestly, it really is hell...

DS is five months. He keeps waking in the night, and it is slowly but surely killing me.

Since being a few weeks old he has been able to get himself off to sleep. Then for a couple of months he did a long sleep of eight hours between around 7pm and 4am.

Then about a month ago his pattern changed and he started waking - and feeding - through the night. Feeding gets him back to sleep, but he can actually manage without. I've got him through twice without a further feed, but we were up crying for his dummy about six or seven times.

Currently he is weaning, so he has a good meal before going down around 6.30pm. Whether or not I give him a late feed he then wakes up all through the night. By the time we get up around 8am I'm a complete wreck and spend most of the day trying to catch up by napping when he does before it all starts again.

For some reason, although he can get himself off to sleep, he doesn't seem to be able to get himself back to sleep...

I want to try controlled crying with him - but he's still in my room, and even if I move one of us out, it's a very small house, so I won't be able to get away from the crying. And now he is older he shrieks if he wants something.

I'm at my wits' end with it. How can I get him to sleep through?

My DD is 8 month's and you really need to start playing hard ball. Firstly, he shouldn't be in your room. He should be in his, with a bed time routine of some sort. Try not to rush in when he cries. Give him 5-10 minutes to settle. Secondly, are you bf? IMO babies on formula stay fuller longer. Plus you can see how much they've drunk. And they don't get any comfort from a plastic teat! Thirdly, controlled crying is your way forward. Hug him every 5 mins initially to make sure he doesn't get hysterical. Be strong and remember, you are da boss.

I left him in my room so I won't have far to go when he wakes up! I suppose the time has come to break the habit for both of us.

Once he starts getting very difficult I bring him in bed with me in a desperate attempt to keep my eyes closed for a little while longer. That's probably not helping either, is it?

Hmmmm. Can't say I agree with the hard ball approach, I'm afraid. Five months is still very young, and for the record the recommendation is that babies stay in your room until six months, so you're doing absolutely the right thing.

Five months is a bit young for weaning - is he developmentally ready for solid food? Can he sit up, has he lost his tongue thrust reflex? He may be having digestive problems, when you say a 'good meal', what sort of thing do you mean?

Don't give up bf unless you want to - not all formula fed babies sleep better.

Is he teething? DS2 wakes every hour when he's working on a tooth, and it is hell, I agree. Have you tried Calpol or Calprofen? If it makes him sleep better, then it's pain waking him up, as they're just painkillers, they don't have any sedative effect.

This kind of waking is normally linked to something like teeth, or learning a new skill - has he recently learned to sit up/crawl/roll over? That might have upset his sleep patterns.

Does any of this sound like it might be it?

I agree with Masalamama, and I wish I had tried the controlled crying earlier my DD is now 2 and only recently (last 3 weeks) started to sleep through, she was breastfed for a year and after that I was kept wondering if she was waking because she was to hot/cold hungry wet dirty etc etc.
It is very hard to do but I left her initially for 5 mins went in cuddled etc then left 10 mins went in didn't cuddle or speak to her just stroked her hair and went, and from then on every 15 mins, she never went longer than an hour and that was very rare, it did take awhile but like I said it did work eventually.
I was very against controlled crying before because I thought it cruel but after 2 yrs of it I was at my wits end but I do understand those of you that don't do it and why.

With respect, it's a bit different when they're two and you know they've just not established a good sleep routine - but a five month old who's been waking at night for a few weeks?

Seems extreme to leap straight to banishing to his own room and controlled crying, why not see if it's teeth or try a few gentler methods first?

Babies have a huge growth spurt at around 4 months. This also coincides with lots of physical and mental development at this time, which can totally send you into sleep hell (am with you on this one, I'm the one in the big pink fluffy dressing gown by the door, trying desperately to get out ). - DD did the same, she was going from 7pm through till 5am, 7am some mornings, then went downhill totally at 4 months. she's 7 months now and has just settled down to a waking around 10pm-ish then another one 2am ish (so not the previous nearly going through I'd started getting hope for ). DS did the same at this age too.

Sorry, nothing really useful here, just wanted to send some support really and say it is quite a common thing to go through at this stage. If you don't want to have the crying, then you could try gradual retreat - similar to the suggestions in Elizabeth Pantley "No cry Sleep Solution", which will take you longer but will be kinder on you all.

Also, you say whether or not I give him a late feed... - can you try giving him a late feed (am assuming at your bedtime-ish?) for a couple of weeks consistently and then see if that helps things settle down? good luck.

lindsaygii is he showing any signs of growth spurt/teeth/tummy trouble?

Dribbling, feeding frequently in the day, shoving fists in his mouth, being irritable and crying more than usual, etc etc etc?

x-posted with loads then!
linds, I do exactly the same as you re: bringing DD into bed - I feed her when she wakes at our bedtime (usually just as I'm about to go up - it's not us waking her!), and put her back in the cot, then when she wakes middle of the night, I get up bleary eyes, bring her in with me and we both fall back asleep as she feeds, where she stays till hopefully sometime passed 6am ( occaisionally 5am). I think at this stage, they need the reassurance more than anything else and this does seem to have calmed DD down as when this waking started, she could happily stay awake chatting to herself for an hour or so!!! I really wouldn't worry if this si what's working for you then I'd stick with it for now.

whatfreshhell Yes - he is teething, he's got all the symptoms, but more importantly, I can see the new teeth under the skin of his gums, ready to break out any time now.

Also, he's had a recent developmental stage too - quite a big one. In the last few weeks he starting rolling over consistently, became much more vocal, realised that when he's in the back of the car (he usually sits next to me in the front) it's the same car (doh!), is more 'chatty' with strangers, laughs hysterically at physical games like tickling, throwing in the air....

I could go on. In short, yes, he has just gone through a huge change in himself.

On the weaning - yes, he's ready. It's a bit early by modern advice, but very standard otherwise. He's happy taking food and clearly wants it, and I only feed up to the point of rejection. However, I'm sure he is feeling funny inside, as it's obviously a big change from all milk to milk and solids.

BUT BUT BUT!!! The bad sleeping started before the weaning. In fact, it started before all these changes. He's never going to stop growing and changing, is he? He MUST start sleeping though, surely?

He will, I promise, but he's still very tiny and is going through a lot of changes by the sound of it!

If the teeth are just breaking through that's when they're really hurting him, so try a dose of Calpol when he wakes up the first time and see if that helps. Or Calprofen, which I find is better for tooth pain (it's ibuprofen rather than paracetamol).

The thing is, the whole sleeping through thing is a bit of a red herring - lots of people assume that babies start sleeping through the night and then that's it, they never wake in the night again. In reality, lots of things will disturb his sleep as he grows up - I have two boys, and DS1 still wakes in the night occasionally, from a nightmare sometimes, or if he's ill, or his molars are coming through. DS2 is 8 months, and he still wakes up for a feed once, but when he's teething he wakes up very often. At the moment he's got a cough which is waking him up every so often.

Some children even wake up when they learn to crawl, because they start crawling in their sleep

bf is marvellous because it's an instant way of soothing a baby who's ill/in pain/anxious. I just bring DS2 into bed with me, as katechristie does, feed him and conk out again.

Controlled crying should only be used if you're sure your son is not in pain or ill in any way - otherwise you're leaving him to cry when he really needs your comfort.

Sorry, probably coming on a bit strong, but I feel quite strongly about this!

All my three got very difficult on the sleep front at 4 months, just when you are expecting them to get better. I think they have a massive growth spurt then that puts them out of kilter. Try and hang in there - in my experience, this stage and the 8/9 month stage is the hardest sleep wise (and it is usually at the latter that we have started trying to do gentle version of sleep training). I think you will find that he will be better in a week or so.

Totally empathise with the 'killing me' bit!

Okay, I have read through the whole thread twice, and had a good think in light of DS and how he is and how I am.

I think it's because he's a baby, isn't it? When I came to write down all the changes he's been through recently I realised what a massive thing life must be to him now.

I do appreciate replies. Especially just knowing it's not just me. Half the mums at my group have their babies sleeping through now. But then, a lot of them are three months, so maybe this is going to happen to them next.

starlight from your link.... "consider the developmental stage of the breastfeeding baby that begins at about four months and can go on to 6 or 7 months? ... This baby is on and off the breast -- so interested in the world around him he can hardly stand it. "Oh look! There's the dog! Hi, Mommy, I love you SOOOO much! The phone?! A car went by. The TV is on. Big sister comes into the room....hey, there's just too much going on for me to concentrate on eating. I think I'm full now. I'll see you later....." "

ha ha ha. Yeah, that's my boy!

whatfreshhell I know you're trying to help, but please don't tell me too much about the future! I'll keep on with it for a bit longer.

masalamama I'm not quite so opposed to controlled crying, but I just can't do it at night when I need to sleep too... I'll bear it in mind for the future, and be a bit tougher about doing it in the evening when I'm still up. He only actually wants his dummy, and he can get off without it, so it's worth carrying on with.

main thing is you are not alone. If you do a quick search you'll see multiple threads on this. In the last week alone I started one in breastfeeding, there was one in sleep yesterday and here are you today. It's bloody miserable and clearly not all babies do it as half my friends have babies who went through the night around 14 weeks and never looked back. It's killing me too. Here's hoping they get used to this new world soon.

Cutting out the evening solids meal has helped a bit, but my long sleep is still about four hours...

Sorry to hear that - did you try Calpol? Are those teeth through?

Try giving calpol in the bath before bedtime - babe will be more relaxed, and helps the settling. I was told if in doubt - give it.

I also started recording a food / sleep diary - so you can see what they are taking / if food increases matching growth spurts. I found often less food meant less sleep, so started giving more snacks / milk feeds through the day, even if only took little bits it all helps. I also found more sleep in the day resulted in better sleeps at night so encourage proper routine napps.

I started weaning at 5months and haven't looked back. Go for high carb / GI foods as longer sustaining. No right / wrong time - be lead by your little one. Formula also longer lasting.

Get in a routine and stick to it religiously, if they sleep - you try to sleep too!

I saw this thread and thought - ohhhh this sounds familiar...I remember posting more or less EXACTLY the same when my DD was 5 months, and it IS hell, you are right. So deep sympathy for you.
Firstly:
This Too Shall Pass. I'm sorry but it works. This will pass!! It's just horrid when you're in it. Take as much time as you can to also recover from the lack of sleep, assume the newborn mentality if you have to - by this point in DDs life I was surviving on 4 hours max of sleep every night and the newborn adrenaline rush had well and truly worn off too!!

It's too young to do controlled crying. I know exactly how you feel and that it's tempting but it's too young - every study I've read says they just aren't pyschologically ready for it. Consider this again when he's about 8 months.

Have you tried a dream feed at about 1030/11? Either from breast or bottle? Don't wake him, just slip the bottle/boob (yep, i know odd position for body but it's possible) into his mouth and let him suckle. might give you a bit longer.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Yes - as you so rightly say, he's taking on a LOT of new information, physically and mentally! This will settle down. At 8/9 months, we did end up doing the CC thing - and DD has slept since then from 6.30pm - 7.30am ever since...

good luck, you sound like a fab mum and he sounds adorable! you've got some fun months ahead of you!!!

Lindsay,
I've been in that bad sleep phase too - both dd and ds were terrible sleepers as babies, and I have to echo some of the previous posters and say that 4/5 months is a tough time sleepwise - perhaps because of all that is going on in their brains.

If you do at some point decide going down the sleep training route, we opted for pick up/put down (Baby Whisperer) approach because it seemed to be a bit less harsh than cc. It worked really well with dd - she slept thru from 7 months, and is a brilliant sleeper. It never worked with ds tho; - some babies just aren't good sleepers no matter what you try. With him we just co-slept, and at least we all got some sleep.

best of luck

Lindsay

I would echo Travellerintime. Our DS is 12 weeks old, so has not yet reached that teething/weaning stage, and is bf. He has a bath, and feed at 7 and then gets himself to sleep, and DH gives the dreamfeed at 10.30-ish. He was waking twice nightly for feeds that were only 5-10 mins in length. Decided this wasn't sensible (frustrating to be woken up for that). First night, when he woke I picked him up, gave him the dummy, comforted him for 10 mins or so, then put him back in his cot, and when he woke the second time, he did not need picking up. Second night, he just needed the dummy putting in and some 'shhh' sounds, and he is now sleeping through from 8 til 6am Wish I had found the Baby Whisperer 12 weeks ago!

HTH

I've cut out the solids from the late tea-time, and gone for the big milk again, and that seems to have helped a bit. Now he's waking himself up by rotating around in his cot like a little clock...

sigh.

We did have one classic the other night. I left my mum babysitting. When I got back he was crying and she was searching high and low for his dummy, but going crazy because it had vanished. So I gave up on the cot and picked him up... and dummy was stuck to the back of his head!!

All three of us were laughing so much we gave up on sleep and brought him downstairs for a glass of wine. When I say glass of wine, I mean, me and my mum had one. DS just had a little wriggle and chuckle at how clever he'd been to get to go to a Granny Party at half nine in the evening... LOL.

How sweet At least you haven't lost your SOH. My dd is 5 months old and we're having problems with her sleep. She kind of has a pattern in the morning (sleeps for 2-3 hours about 9.30am) then usually another small nap in the afternoon, then hell all night til I go to bed and take her with me. She then snacks (we co-sleep as she won't sleep in the moses basket-dd still small as was 10 weeks prem). Today she has slept half hour all day We are all knackered. I think she is teething but the calpol and teething granules made no difference. I think now she is just over tired. She is all of a sudden very interested in the world around her and seems very stimulated by everything so maybe this and the teething is making her sleep worse. A few posters have suggested formula as absorbed less quickly than bm. That is true but the advantages of bf far outweigh the negatives at this time.